My Dream...

[Pilsbane]

To do a /sea all inv 38-42 and see a bunch of Galka Paladins and Taru Bards. The list is usually something like 3 thfs, 1 drk, 2 drg, and 2 rdm. We had a Dark Knight tank for us in Crawlers Nest last night. It worked--sorta.

The turnaround seems so strange. Before about level 35 there are 10 times as many warriors/paladins as needed in groups then after about 35 it seems to be one of the hardest jobs to fill in a party. I like playing my Redmage more, but at times I almost wish I'd have just stayed a Paladin.

Oh and its even more rare to find a tank that actually has up to date gear! We finally got a warrior in the group and he shows up with a leather bandana! Ugg...so I'm telling all aspiring Paladins to stay with it and keep your gear up to date, you will be loved!

[Hem]

Heh, Hey, if you /sea all 43 you'll see this paladin ^.~
My main armor is Up-to-date...

But *ahem* i tend to stay attached to anything that adds Mp(belt)

and my...good friend....the Justice Badge....

err....but i use Foods...and easily pass 300 defense.

My Name is Hem, Look me up sometime.

[Pilsbane]

I remember grouping with you a while ago Hem in the highlands, we were both warriors at the time. It was before I had Provoke macroed (I was such a noob). We should group sometime again, Nylia and I got 41 today.

[Hem]

Yep i remember too, those were the days where i was a
"MACRO YOUR FREAKIN PROVOKE" Nazi :cool:

it'd be cool to party with you guys again.

Oh and if i'm seeking with Thf subbed, i'll change back to War Sub, i usually Gil farm while i Wait.

[Somajan]

Bah, Human Paladins are better in my book (I know galkas are more geared towards paladins classees)

[Hem]

hmm, well, you can hold hate better...buuut
now that red mages(lvl 41) Gave refresh and bards can sing ballad......

Well, i'm better than a Hume paladin...because i can't run out of Mp ^.^, 100+ more life and Most likely better Vit/defense.

But without that, i can still keep Hate easily(really, in most battles i only had to use less then 75 of my 100 mp to keep hate) But a Hume would have more capability of doing so, but its really dependent on skill...

I've learned how to keep the monster focused with very little Mp...
so I really don't need Hume Mp, and you probably have/will learn to do the same with yours.

Really, my main benefit that i can see for myself that most humes can't do...is i can let the main healer rest for a minute or two at the start of battle, Flash--->Cure III, and with 922 hp, it takes a bit of time to be worn down by monsters(even tho' they are starting to hit for lower 50's even when i use Fish kabobs)


*shrug* but its all opinion.

[Pilsbane]

Thank you Somajan, I won a bet for your reply. I bet Nylia that someone would reply to this thead claiming that Galkas aren't the best race for Paladin. I'm actually glad you and so many others feel that way, more Galkas I can get in my group instead. In a level up party where I don't know the paladins personally (individual play abililty matters the most) I'd take Galka over Elvaan over Hume over Mithra over Taru, in that order. Hem touched on the major points.

[Moo]

Galka PLDs are so nice to have to tank for you. Nothing tanks better than a fatty.

Max MP isn't that big if you have a well rounded party with a RDM and/or Bard for MP regen.

HP, Def, and VIT is everything. Having a low amount of MP is very very easy to work around.



Taru BRDs are nice too, but race doesn't make that much difference for a BRD. Every race is pretty equal at playing the BRD job.

[Somajan]

I won you a bet? That's cool:thumbsup:

you use 75 mp a battle? I usually use about 50 or so, and I'm still keeping the hate off of those mages in my party!

But, yeah it really all boils down to skill. You could be a level 14 paladin galka with all tricked out equipment, but still suck at your job. Whereas a level 13 paladin still wearing the not-so-up-to-date armor can still hold the hate and deal some very nice damage while keeping downtime to a minimum and giving the whm only one target instead of just one.

Seen too many noobish paladins around lately... Some with warrior sub at level 5, paladin level 20.

I'm still in awe of successful Taru Paladins though... characters like Beowulf and a few others.

[Hem]

Heh, i'm not sure if i even had 50 mp at your level @_@.

but now its getting crazy to keep aggro because each job is starting to get the big skills.

its tarts off fine..."elevator music"

*Blm does 200 damage!*

wtf, ok i got this...

"Dark stacks souleater/beserk/lastresort" the hell is that?!

"Samurai starts a one man Renkei(not 2 hour)"

"Ranger uses barrage"

but i've been lucky enough to party with red mages... so really nothing leaves me.....and the white mage was using Curaga and Cure III, one after the other...the blm would spend 500 mp in about 10-20 seconds, it was cool, and we chained like that ^.^

needless to say if i didn't have refresh(but so would any race of paladin), they would have died, but I'm just making an example.

[Lilandra]

o.O i must of missed the memo or something, 50 to 75 mp a fight????

At my lvl with the drg putting out penta like its going out of style, or the Blm dropping in freeze, Drk Buffing out with SBL. Your telling me it takes only 75 me to keep hate most fights..?? Please tell me how you do it :)

I can only imagine it getting worse , When the Blm gets flare, and the Drk guillotining and so on, or that ranger busting out Sidewinder. Anyway just thought i would ask

[Hem]

err, i said in my last post how its changing for me ^.^

besides your a higher level go away =p



:biggrin:

heh, just kidding. :sweat:

[Somajan]

Um, I only got up to level 40 during beta dude, at that time the only guy I knew who had PentaThrust was Chrono who is now Cronoh on the Midgardsormr server.

but remembering from the time in CN I kept using the cures as a main hate holder and it worked just fine. Didn't expend that much mana, Course having one of the most well-rounded parties of all time helped that a lot (Whm, BLM, Drk, Pld, Sam, Brd)

[imac2much]

Things change. Besides, even up to level 40 it's still easy to keep aggro... anybody could do it. It gets harder as the damage dealers get better at their job... i.e. dealing damage (and gaining hate at the same time). Just simply casting cures won't do it at all. Provoke, Shield Bash, Sentinel, Weapon Skills, Flash, etc are all essential. If you seriously think that PLDs can function the entire game by just throwing around Cures you're quite wrong.

I'm not going into the "which race is better" cuz there's tons of threads there that have actual substantial and concrete arguments; plus, I think it depends more on the player than the race (though race does indeed make a difference).

I don't find Penta that bad... it misses so much and usually only does 100-200 damage... no big deal. The only people that are hard to keep aggro from are bad DRKs who spam SE + LR + Berserk and bad BLMs who spam nukes and ancients. Good communication is vital.

Crosus, I think it might get a bit *easier* lvl 60+ if we team with a DRK/THF (trick+LR+SE+Guillo might be nice), but not sure.. really wanna see though :biggrin:

[Somajan]

Apparently you've never seen me play paladin before.


I usually will throw in the Shield bashes and other fun Paladin stuff around to get the monster to like me so much. I've only reached level 40 so far, hadn't had too many problems.

But when I was in Cn I'd usually have a macro with a provoke every thirty seconds plus one with a Shield Bash / Sentinel / Provoke on me. It worked quite well and most of the crawlers never really cared whether anybody did anything these.

Problem is the 5 minute recharge. I probably should've switched Shield Bash and Sentinel into seperate macros but I found it simple enough to hold hate even without those two. Guess not everybody was as developed in their jobs.

But Imac2much, stop bringing your experiences into it! I'll move on and adapt to whatever situation that I'm sunken into, whether the monster is dealing 6million damage, or if its only doing 5. Give me time and stop struttin your stuff when I haven't had that sort of experience as you have.

[foobar]

Around 45-50 a good BLM is bursting for 450-500, sometimes twice per fight. Use 50 mp and you'll have a dead mage. Not only you end up using most of your mp (If you have no refresh or ballad) and abilities, you also have to time them right.
I usually alternate between shield bash and sentinel since the party is usually going for chains.

Regarding race, IMO Galka, Elvaan and Hume are probably all good enough. It always ends up with them looking for the best combination of hp, mp, vit and agi.

[imac2much]

I apologize. I will never bring my experience into arguments again. Apparently speculation and assumptions carry more weight than experience. I suppose you only care about your current level and don't care about what it's like as the game goes on. I was under the assumption that people did care how PLD will turn out in advance, but I guess I was wrong.
:rolleyes:

No need to get so defensive Samojan. I was only commenting on when you said that you use cures as your main hate bringer. Whatever, no need to argue with you since apparently you don't care what other people say anyway.

Yeah foobar I do the same, I tend to alternate sentinal and shield bash as well. Some exceptions are for certain monsters with bad skills that take a long time (again, ancient magic) for which I like to save Shield Bash if I don't have tp. If I have tp I don't participate in renkei, and instead save the TP for flat blade. (I'd rather waste tp with that crappy WS for 3 damage then eat a Quake for 700)

Also, ancient magic MB is useful when the enemy is weak against it (i.e. Freeze MB against crab in kuftal). If you're not sure if you can hold the aggro, ask the BLM to get behind you before he casts, then cover right before he finishes casting. Those 10 seconds will be enough to get aggro back on you. Either that or tell them not to cast til about midway through the fight when you have enough aggro and/or the MB would kill the monster.

I find juice useful when there's no RDM (even when there's a BRD). Buy a stack or two of khazam pineapples and bring some water crystals... make juice on the fly so it doesn't waste your INV space. Khazam pineapples are relatively cheap (60-70 gil each) so this isn't too costly.

All races will make fine PLD. Even Taru IMO will be fine as long as they can be kept alive... at least they will keep hate easier. Of course, I still think the ideal race for PLD is Elvaan but that's just my opinion. (If I could reroll, I would be a Sandorian Elvaan instead of Bastokian Galka... but I'd have to replace my BGM first. Can't stand Sandorian music :( )

[Diamanti]

Even if I could keep hate by spamming Cure 1's I wouldn't. All that casting takes time out that you can actually do some damage. Though PLD damage isn't much, its still something and lets you participate in Reneki. Just my personal opinion of course, not that any other way is wrong as long as it works :)

My static party however has me a little spoiled. The RDMs are good enough with getting Refresh on me and the mages constantally so I never have to rest AND I never lack MP. Thats with using Flash, Cure 2, and Cure 3 as often as I feel like. Next time we get back together I'm going to see how well MBing Banish 2 works for me as well. I like to experiment with little things like that :)

But if you want the MP of a Hume, but the tanking power of a Galka, I have 2 words for you: Boiled Crab. The +4 to VIT and +21.9% DEF (I think those values are correct) are amazing. Its a bit pricey though, so I can't always afford it but our LS cook can make it now so it helps to have a hookup :thumbsup:

[imac2much]

I am so in love with RDMs... they make the PT so much better IMO. My personal opinion... if I were a race other than Galka, I would restart as a RDM asap. They are so awesome :biggrin:

Anyway, I was wondering... what stats do steamed crayfish give? Also, do boiled crabs really last 1 hour? I cook boiled crabs myself (usually on the spot since we get land crab meat in kuftal and I bring other ingredients) but never bothered to check exactly how long it lasted. I can almost make fish mithkabobs now, and they are cheaper than boiled crabs and give more DEF (DEF+24.9% I think?) Also, now and then I make steamed crayfish (HQ version of boiled crayfish), so I'm wondering how much DEF that gives... might be cheaper to wait for lightsday and full moon, then synth a ton of boiled crayfish... keep the steamed, sell the boiled's :biggrin:

[Hem]

Well, thanks Higher level Galka Guy...

i learned nothing new...but i was reconfirmed on Pentathrust not being great...but thanks ^.^

and yes, i have my seperate Provoke/Shield bash/sentinal/cover/Cure series/etc macros.

[imac2much]

None of my posts were meant to offend you, Hem. I didn't mean to imply that I am an "awesome" PLD because I know how to use job ablities. On the contrary, I think all PLD's (except only a very small amount of rotten eggs) know how to do that.. it's just plain common sense. Once again, I was just responding to his claim that Cures are the main aggro dealers. In many XP PT's, I actually don't have to cure at all. When monsters hit for 50-80 (which I'm sure they do at your level, right?), I find it more efficient to use Flash for 25 MP, saving you about 150+ HP of damage. And sometimes the WHM heals so much (esp with Refresh on them and Regen II on you) that you don't have much HP lost to cure yourself for anyway.

Yes Penta *in my experience* isn't that good in XP PT's... some DRG will still say it's an awesome WS, but to be honest it seems to only hit for 100-250 usually, sometimes less.

But who knows, maybe the DRGs in my PTs were having a bad idea or something. I actually haven't been in an XP PT for last 3 days or so it seems.. >_<

*shakes fist at AF coffer hunts*

[Pilsbane]

I had a 28 PLD. I quit it to play a RDM. I like RDM better, but that's just my opinion. Refresh is absolutely amazing. The Paladins I group with never sit down. With Flash they don't use as much MP to hold hate. It works out well for everyone. I guess I'm just fond of the "Brick-wall" Galka. I didn't mean to say the other races are inferior Paladins by any means. I was just expressing what I prefer.

[Lilandra]

imac i feel your pain on the gloves my friend, i got that crap out of the way asap :). I know plds who are same lvl are higher who are no where close to getting that pain in the ass coffer. But now im on the garliage coffer and i know its gonna be no fun =/.


and i LOVE rdm.... but not as much as a lvl 55 brd with ballad II :P

[imac2much]

Yo Crosus, I am actually taking a break in XP PT'ing because I am waiting for a friend. The highest I plan to get to in the next week or two is 56... so I might have some spare time to help.

I finally got my coffer for gloves last night, and I think we might try to fight Dark Spark soon. I got my Garliage coffer, but if you need help fighting fallen's, weapon's and wraiths for the key, send me a tell. If I'm not busy, I might be able to offer some assistance. (Lately I am either helping people with AF, cooking or hunting stupid monsters with LS mates x_x)

By the way... the place we camped for Garliage keys was between the beetle/bat room and small room with 4 hellmines (one at each corner). You get there by entering Garliage, turning left and dropping down a hole... then walk across and slightly to the left (beware of aggroing bats and beetles... and the occasional Serket :p )

We had an alliance of 18 (15 or so needed key), and it took us a good 10 hours to get one for everyone. We only fought Fallens (Fallen Mage and Fallen Major) and Wraiths (banshee-like ghosts), we let another key-hunting PT have the weapons and other stuff. (I think over weapons drop key as well). Fallens are a LOT easier than Wraiths and also dropped the key more often, but there are generally more Wraiths. (Watch out for ancient magic, be sure to have shieldbash/flatblade ready and DRKs + BLMs with stun!)

UGH AND DON'T TOUCH THE HELLMINES! We fought a few, thinkin it was nothing... til it exploded and I got hit for 1.1k damage (my max is 1.15k or something... I died). Later we didn't learn our lesson and fought another (we thought barfira would help)... plenty died again. Then about 5 hours later we got aggroed somehow by 2 fallen majors and 2 hellmines... needless to say out of that 18 person alliance only 3 survived.. it was intense.

Oh well.. only Beadaux and Zvahl left now >< By the way how hard was Darkie?

About RDM and BRD.. the thing is, I as a PLD would rarely get Ballad I + II (except maybe during downtime), since other melees will want Madrigal at the least, and maybe March. I prefer Refresh generally still. Also, I like the fact RDM can dish out damage too (En hits add up, and they can MB during renkei). Convert is supreme as well. I know I know... BRDs are great too and greatly "power up" the PT... it's hard to decide on which support is the "best", but thankfully the complement eachother nicely. Just hard to get both in a PT though.

But if I were to choose between one or the other for myself, I would go RDM. At least with Phalanx + Stoneskin + Haste + En, they can solo rather well (for gilfarming purposes and the like). Plus they have invis/sneak to do quests and AF hunts. Seems most useful generally in the big scheme of things (not just xp PT). Just my 2 cents.

[Lilandra]

ballad II by itself is 5mp a tick *drools* but yeah refresh is dope as hell i love rdms.... And dude darkie is weaksauce you get a good pt and you will kick his teeth in, but BEWARE he can explode for massive damage. (didnt happen to me but i have heard about it ) and the WORST thing about that damn place is actually GETTING to him. Unless you got sneak and invis its gonna be a long fight without an alliance. Besides that your fine make sure you have bar fira and if you can snag a few brds (Depending on how many pts) fire carol will help a bunch. If ya need me to help im down :)

[imac2much]

...F...f...fiiiiive points per tick????? I had no idea!! :mad: Last BRD I teamed with was wrongfei (good BRD, but not level 55 = no ballad II)... holy cow I might have a new favorite class to play with...

Even then though, I'm actually considering make a whole new toon (HumeM I think) and making a RDM after I hit 60 or so. Not entirely sure (ugh will have to do subjob quest and all that again, not to mention building fame and gettin airship pass), but I don't think Galkas make very good RDM... too much HP wasted when using Convert :(

[Somajan]

Sorry that I came all that defensively. But I've been able to hold hate pretty well without provokes but I know that its a totally different ballgame when you reach the 40+ levels, which is something that I haven't had a taste of as of yet.

I wanna be able to see how I can handle it on my own, then I'll come crawling back for some deeply needed advice.

[Lilandra]

yeah hume is a damn good rdm, and yeah 5 a tick, its friggen crazy... Also i think ill take pld to 70 or 75 gonna be way painful but it will be fun, then i will probably switch do war or drk (i forgot how it is to do damage :P). none the less it should be good times.

[Exsol]

one thing that pisses me off the most is when a PLD doesnt have the best stuff for there lvl and doesnt even try, I was standing next to a PLD the same lvl as me, and i had at LEAST 200ks worth more in equip than him AND AF.
If your a PLD with bad armor, it affects your PT too, so take a break from lvling and make some money!

[Lilandra]

I agree with ya my friend, Sadly my jewerly for most plds is very expensive. Phalanx ring are around 60k+ a piece. But if you wanna go the extra mile the +3 vit rings are like 100k + a piece

/sigh I need to get those dumb rings -_-

[Weezingpipes]

Save your money on those! At least for a bit. So I'm grouping last night with some folks I know, PLD has to leave, and we replace him with a Galka PLD. I thought well shit, this is gonna suck, since every one of my experiences with Galka PLD has been poor. But not so! We're fighting, the dude never loses agro, ever, casts constantly, yet how does he do it with his paltry mp? So I inspect him : Electrum Hairpin and 2 Astral Rings. I wasn't sure what is the difference between -HP and +MP rings and Astral Rings, but thats pretty phenomenal, just swap em in and out when ya need mp. The 25 hp loss is negligable. When I say this guy had 0 hate issues, I mean it, and every fight he never sat and was always able to participate in skillchains. It was impressive if nothing else. I didn't look but I assume when he wasn't wearing Astral Rings he had Phalanx rings or something or other. I don't play a PLD, but I have seen around 50 PLD needs to cast more to keep hate which can be a problem for the lower MP PLD, and because of these rings, this guy had 0 hate problems EVER.

The rings are 125k or so on Midgardsormr (not sure on other servers) so seriously, pick up at least one, and you will notice a big difference in agro maintenance. There are of course Serket rings too, but that isn't really something just anyone can afford.

[Lilandra]

heh yeah, cant wear the hairpin (Hopefully getting af circlet tonight or tomorrow) but the rings are good times. But quick question. Im not in game right now but but what is the difference between electrum ring and astral ring (brain is not working rightnow)

[Weezingpipes]

Actually I'm fairly sure all jobs can wear hairpins. RDM in my LS explained the difference : with -hp +mp, you lose the HP, but the MP isn't added to your current mp, it increases the total. Items that say Convert makes you lose that much HP, but also increases your current MP and MP total. So the PLD had something like 110 MP without the rings. Between fights he equipped the Astral Rings and the Hairpin to increase his total to 177 I think, cast a buncha crap til he was under 100 MP, and switched back to higher DEF/stats equipment, which I assume it was macroed for fast changes in battle. I seriously believe the rings could be the best cash spent for a level 50 something PLD, comparatively bigger longterm benefit to be able to not have to heal for MP every fight and be able to do skillchains which helps the hate even more when you don't have to wait a long time to do it.

[Weezingpipes]

Sorry correcting myself! The explanation I got last night was wrong. There is in fact 0 difference between using items with -hp +mp and items which says convert hp to mp, so basically if you are 40+ you pay an extra 180k for 10 mp compared to using electrum rings. Sorry for the misinformation, I guess the PLD was just that good. Although if anyone could give insight why one would bother purchasing astral rings I'd love to hear it, the answer "well level 10's can use it"...who cares?

[Arnda]

Originally posted by Weezingpipes
Although if anyone could give insight why one would bother purchasing astral rings I'd love to hear it, the answer "well level 10's can use it"...who cares?

More money than sense? :biggrin:

[Weezingpipes]

Or just enough money to burn on 10 MP ^^

[imac2much]

I don't recommend this. I tried this as well (except with 2 Electrum Rings instead of Astral Rings... just a 10 MP difference). Right now even with 500 defense Knight Crawlers do regular hits for like 60-80, when not using job abilities and such they can hit for 100+... In this case, the defense you lose from your Hairpin and Rings is VERY significant. That's like 40+ base defense you are losing, which is multiplied even higher when you add boiled crab/fish mithka, defender, and sentinel (all which increase Defense by a percentage). From my testing I found the best combination is 1 Electrum ring and 1 Phalanx... also, if you have no RDM/BRD, it's good to start with Elder's Bracers, then switch to IM gloves/Gallant gauntlets later. Elder's Bracers is +32 MP and only a 6-10 defense loss... compare this to the sacrifices you make for a hairpin and astral rings and you'll notice the difference.

Also, even when I don't use Elder's Bracers (with them I have 161 MP, without I have 129 MP), I don't have a problem keeping aggro. It's not just me, other galka PLD I have talked to don't really have a problem keeping aggro. So if we can have more defense without any sacrifices... why would we sacrifice more defense for more MP we don't really need? Also, you say that he switched out midbattle, but that means at the start he is taking hits with 50+ less defense than someone else his same level. That number is significant.

I assume you had a RDM/BRD in your PT (how else can he recover MP without sitting?).. in that case all that extra MP is unnecessary.