Rdm/brd...

[Maxim]

Yesterday I was looking for a PT with my RDM/BLM and in my search comment I put, "I can sub WHM too," in case the PT leaders needed a RDM/WHM.

Anyway, I get an invite. The PT leader could only find 2 mages (me and another WHM) so he asks if the WHM can sub BRD. At this point I'm thinking in the back of my head, "Uh... this is going to be one of those parties..." The WHM says she can't, so the PT leader proceeds to ask if I can. My BRD was over 25 so I said I could and subbed it. The WHM goes, "‚·‚Ä‚«?`?™." I wondered what she meant by "suteki", because it definitely couldn't have meant "wonderful", because we all know BRD sub sucks. (Maybe by "suteki" she really meant "steak" because RDM/BRD is walking chunk of useless meat... hooray for puns.) The PT leader was Rank 10 so I figured it was somewhat safe to assume that he knew what he was doing so I went ahead and did what he requested.

Back to reality. PT setup was four melee, two mages like I said.
WAR/THF, PLD/WAR, THF/WAR, SAM/WAR, WHM/BLM, and me... RDM/BRD. My gimped sub job made this PT feel like a genuine greenhorn PT.
http://april-showers.com/maxim/img/1brd.jpg

And yes, it was embarrassing.
http://april-showers.com/maxim/img/12brd.jpg

Obviously my playing style was quite different... Once the PT got started I kept PLD, WHM, and myself Refreshed like usual but instead of debuffing I had to spend more time singing Ballad to the PLD, WHM, and myself and also sing Madrigal to the frontliners. I don't think there was a noticable difference in accuracy since BRD was subbed (meaning singing skill was halved) and I had no instrument but I did it anyway since it was within my ability to do so. I made two macros for this occasion... the JP people liked them.
http://april-showers.com/maxim/img/2brd.jpg
http://april-showers.com/maxim/img/13brd.jpg

It may not seem like subbing BRD for Ballad is worth it, but it turns out it was extremely helpful - far more useful than subbing BLM for Conserve MP and 60 MP. The only problem was that I didn't have time to enfeeble or attack at all (not that RDMs need to melee... I just wanted to skill up my sword). The only thing I could use was Gravity and Blind. WHM took care of everything else.

The EXP was decent. We couldn't chain 5 times though, so we chained 4 times continuously instead.
http://april-showers.com/maxim/img/8brd.jpg
http://april-showers.com/maxim/img/10brd.jpg
http://april-showers.com/maxim/img/9brd.jpg
This would have been impossible had I subbed BLM. Almost all the EXP after the first monster was over 200 EXP, and we were killing so fast that we had to wait for the spiders to spawn every once in a while. We were the only PT there by the way.

Apparently I was doing a good job with singing since I was able to have 1 song casted on everybody at all times...
http://april-showers.com/maxim/img/3brd.jpg

(Going off topic a bit). After experimenting with RDM/BRD I learned something about the Red Mage ability Fast Cast. It's known that Fast Cast lets you cast when the bar reaches around 60~75% instead of the bar filling up to 90~100%. I noticed that some BLMs, WHMs, and BRDs sub RDM to get the Fast Cast ability so they can "Cast Faster" but it turns out Fast Cast doesn't let you cast "faster" at all. The spell/song may finish casting when the bar fills up to 75%, but you still have to wait for the bar to fill up to 100% before you can cast your next spell. So in the end Fast Cast does not let you cast spells quickly one after another nor does it save you actual time. It just lets your spell get out there faster so in the end it's just a novelty ability. The moral: Subbing RDM for Fast Cast is not worth it.

Ballad finished casting at 65% thanks to Fast Cast:
http://april-showers.com/maxim/img/4brd.jpg

However, I have to wait until the bar fills up to 100% before I can cast my next song. From 66% to 100% I'm sitting there doing nothing. Fast Cast is such a novelty. XD
http://april-showers.com/maxim/img/5brd.jpg

At any rate, it was a really good party... and you know it was a good party when the person who has to leave at 8 PM says he'll stay for another hour. Everybody went up a level and yadda yadda yadda. I'm considering putting, "ƒTƒ|?F”’Ž?‚Å‚«‚Ü‚·" in my search comment from now on. Subbing BRD on RDM isn't bad when there's no BRD in the party, although you don't get BalladII and Madrigal's not as powerful.

Super Happy Fun Time.
http://april-showers.com/maxim/img/7brd.jpg

[Beener]

Honestly, I don't see why subbing bard is so frowned upon.

Ok, it's not as good as bard main, but it's certainly better than no bard at all (which, up to lvl 35, have been ALL of my parties).

And if there is any class that can get away with bard sub, i think it is the redmage, because our roles in parties are so flexible.

I thought of the idea when i was lvling thief, i used bard sub for soloing (hp recovery against easy prey is nice, and also acts as a free antidote for crawlers).

Although in the IDEAL party you should be rdm/blm, how many ideal parties do you usually find? exactly.

[Toby]

RDM/BRD is my standard when I PT with WHM and BLM

RDM/BRD with AF3 hat sings song really fast, and this is one very attractive advantage

However, if possible, I would cast Aim song to frontline and MP song to WHM and BLM

The effect of Aim song will be weaker with SJ BRD, but it is still useful

[Berithon]

ok ill admit i dont have a ton of experience as a rdm, but i think i can shed some light on the Fast Cast ability.

the spell casts when the bar reaches 65%(ive noticed this with Regen) and although the ability seems worthless since weh ave ot wait for the bar to finsih there is one advantage to be gaiend from it.

that is the fact that once the spell is cast at 65% we cant be interupted. this lets us get of another Cure while taking hits since we need 35% less time to cast the spell. for example

a mob swings every 4 secs, and the mob is attacking you

you want to cast a spell that has a casting time of 5 secs

seems impossible youll be hit and the spell will be interupted.....

without fast cast and baring Aquaveil or any other ability it probably would be impossible, but take into account that it takes you 35% less time to cast a spell with Fast Cast and your time where the spel lcan be interupted goes down to 3.25 secs.

now this still isnt easy, but with good timing you should be able to get the spell off between the mobs attacks.....

[Apple Pie]

Great Job, Maxim! It seems to me that all of your PT had great fun. By the way, the reason WHM said "‚·‚Ä‚«?`?™." was because I think she was pleased to know that.

I'll start to raise my BRD as soon as My RDM reaches LV60 (15,000+ exps needed) because I am also one of them thinking RDM/BRD is a nice combo. I actually know some LV70 WHMs subbing BRD.

Ballad only recovers 1MP/3sec but unlike Refresh, it recovers any people around me with just one song. Suppose we have BLM, RDM, and WHM in our PT, imagine how much MP it recovers in an hour. That is 3,600 (1,200x3) MP!

Even if we sub BRD, we're still able to sing

- Sword Madrigal [LV22/11]: Increasing 15 accuracy.
- Mage's Ballad [LV50/25]: Recovering 1MP/3sec
- Hunter's Prelude [LV62/31]: Tremendously increasing range attack accuracy

It is really hard to find BRD and I think subbing BRD is nice if we have both BLM and WHM since we can ask them to be in charge of Bio/Dia, Blind, Frost, Shock, Slow, and Paralyze.

[Rekiem]

Madrigal is probably one of the best Bard song. It make such a difference in the effectiveness of melee attacks. The 60MP you lost from not subbing BLM or WHM were definatly well replaced. You also had Ballad I, even if its not really great, combined with Refresh, it get much more impressive. Ballad I by itself gives 40 MP over 2minutes. So this mean that the MP you lost from not subbing BLM were only 20 in reality.

Only problem with subbing Bard: Sing music effect is not pretty...

[Toby]

Originally posted by Rekiem
Madrigal is probably one of the best Bard song. It make such a difference in the effectiveness of melee attacks. The 60MP you lost from not subbing BLM or WHM were definatly well replaced. You also had Ballad I, even if its not really great, combined with Refresh, it get much more impressive. Ballad I by itself gives 40 MP over 2minutes. So this mean that the MP you lost from not subbing BLM were only 20 in reality.

Only problem with subbing Bard: Sing music effect is not pretty...
You have explained the main points

Sing music effect is not pretty... for races other than Taru :biggrin:
Taru singing face is......funny:thumbsup:

[Sketch]

Hmm, since I stopped playing bard at level 58 and started leading my own parties as red mage (now 56), I haven't once been able to have a bard in my party...

This thread's got me thinkin'. Since I already have bard raised, and I'm a tarutaru with plenty of mp anyway... hmmm..... I guess even half-madrigal makes up for Frost... hmmmmmmm.....

My, my.. I'm gonna have to try this out!?@?@(?L„x?M)y-?`

[Plenum]

I just wanted to comment on the Fast Cast Being a Novelty. I'm still a noob, but I wanted to comment that isn't Fast Cast very useful if your subbing RDM to BLM or WHM? Becasue if there was a skill chian or Emergency healing needed wouldn't the Fast Cast save you and plus since RDM are support characters wouldn't Fast Cast actually a life saver more than a novlety item just so it looks like we cast fast then stand around. And Woulnd't Fast Casting and standing around for like 1 or 2 seconds mean that you'll be able to reuse the same spell again faster? ^^;; Just wondering:thumbsup:

[Sketch]

Fast Cast certainly isn't a novelty. With bard subbed, I was able to start a new song starting at around 75%. When I played bard with red mage subbed I could start a new one around 80%. Without the rdm sub I had to wait until 100%.

[vXvalentine]

Fast cast isnt a novelty... the spell casts at 75 percent(or what ever) you may still have to wait for the bar to fill but the spell got out EARLIER. This is amazing for soloing, it makes it so you can time long spells inbetween enemys attacks and still get them off without being interrupted, also if a cure spell gest off a cuarter of a second earlier it can save lives, fast cast is amazing.NOT A NOVELTY.

[Maxim]

Let me reiterate: You still have to wait until the timer gets to 100% before you can cast the next song/spell. The spell activates at 75%, but the timer still runs from 75% to 100%. Technically, this means you still have to wait for the timer to get to 100% before you can cast your next spell, so you can't go from one spell to another extremely quickly. You can't start casting a spell if your timer appears on the screen even though the spell was already casted at 75%. It's really hard to explain, but it became very apparent to me after playing WHM, BLM, RDM, and BRD. All I have to explain with are those screenshots.

At any rate, recast time still remains the same so you can't just go CureII>CureII>CureII. Fast Cast may be useful for soloing, but in a PT I can do without it (I'm not saying I hate Fast Cast, but just pointing out some fun facts I found out).

[Sketch]

No, no, I understood. ^^ When I sub my bard with red mage, I can start a new song at 80% instead of 100%, and when I sub my red mage with bard, I can can cast a new spell/song after around 75%. I haven't really paid close attention to it, especially rdm/brd since I haven't used that combo much, but that's about where the figures are. However, since there's no real way to prove this, I don't really want to argue about it.

Of course, what you said about spell recast times is certainly true.

[Xyphere]

I would try /BRD...but I'm Elvaan so I need the MP, but I guess It wouldnt hurt to try :D