Is Elvaan Red Mage a good job and race?

[SlayerX]

is this a good starting character?

[Sairah]

I love my elvaan red mage so far but she's only lvl 13

[Beener]

Honestly, I don't think so.

My redmage is a hume, and sometimes i sweat over low MP and Humes have the second best MP in the game.

Elvaan have more MP than only Galka, and most Elvaan mages I've partied with in general have run out of MP in the middle of a fight more often than I like to see.

Also, the higher your redmage gets, the worse their melee skills get, so the one pro of elf redmage is negated (high str).

[tonka]

If you're going to be an Elvaan mage, i think redmage is best. The elvaan benefits of high HP, STR, and MND benefit the red mage most.

If you just want the best red mage i think taru or mithra/hume are better for more MP.

[Discordian]

Yes the Hume and tar races do make the better rdm. However the mithra rdm has a little bit of a stat boost as well. I have plans to get my bow skill up when I start working up ranger. That way I can use a bow as well. If a mithra runs out of spells then you are left with melee, how about a bowto use with that better dex? I've noticed that my melee isn't going as far anymore. Since level 33 its been sliding fast, it could be the difficulty of creatures that we've been fighting but its still there.

I have read that mithra get stuck in a stereotype loop where they only make good thieves or rangers. I don't know about that. Really, they are almost the same as hume, just a couple stats are offset a bit. Better looking too ;)

Back to the original topic. Elvaan will be easier to level until about level 32, then I think the sword starts to lose value quickly since you start throwing attack spells because you can't hit very often with the sword. I'll try equiping a bunch of dex enhancers but I think that in the end, the sword is in vain.

[BlueFire]

I really wish I wouldn't have picked an Elvaan for my RDM. The MP disadvantage is horrid. I was new, and had no idea of the MP disadvantages. But, I guess I'll have to see it through to the end, since there is no way I would start a new character and delete my hard work.

[Jei]

The NPC Redmage you follow his story for your AF quest, is an Elvaan :E that tells something eh *wink wink*

they looks cool and do fine. no worry

[Plenum]

i think tarutarus are so cute and so cool! tarutarus are the best mages but you gotta watch out casue you'll have tiny bits of life. ^^;; but thats okay ina good team the whm will heal you and the warrios will provke !

[Discordian]

I'm not a fan of the tantaru or the galka and my reason is that if pretty much over specialize yourself into being a mage or a warrior. If you want to suddenly go place something else, you have already gimped yourself in a couple aspects making it harder for you to advance in some jobs.

[vulcan4d]

I'm an Elvaan RDM. Even though I'm still early on in the game I havn't had any problems. Being able to attack and cure at the same time is great for times you can't get into groups. You'd appreciate the extra HP you get being an Elvaan when playing solo. RDM already get less HP then any melee only job like WAR, so being an Elvaan RDM makes sense.

It all comes down to enjoying the game pretty much. Just ask any Taru with a melee job like WAR ;).

[Patchinko]

Taru WAR is horrible. Being one has only made me MORE prejudiced against having them in my PTs. :p

As for Elvaan mages in general... they're a possibility, but you can do a lot better. If you are dead set against being a Taru (prejudiced ;)), Hume is by far your best choice. I've been in one too many parties where the Elvaan WHM runs out of MP and I have to cover for him or her.

However, the scenario may be different for Elvaan RDM, which is perhaps why they're more common than Elvaan WHM, since the RDM can be relatively effective at melee for about 20 levels, and Elvaan exceed at just that. I would imagine it's a rocky ten or twenty levels after that, but after a certain point the MP would be high enough to make up for it.

I can't speak from experience, but there's a fair number of higher level Elvaan RDM who can vouch that's it a very viable combination. Also, if you think you're going to be interested in melee classes later on, it'd be a good choice to go Elvaan. If you're hardcore for RDM, though, Hume or Taru are the way to go.

Also, you won't be soloing enough for the extra HP you have as an Elvaan to matter. The key to mage classes is MP, not HP, RDM included.

Just don't be a Galka. There's an infamous Galka WHM on Ragnarok who couldn't cast raise after he bought it because his maximum MP wasn't high enough. :o

[Discordian]

The Taru WAR argument is the one that I use when I tell someone.
Me: "Sure, play a Galka mage. Its game. Have fun"

Them: Then come the comments about lack of MP ect ect.

Me: "So what about that Taru DRK?"

Them: "He's cool, as long as he doesn't get hit he's fine. He's doing his job but if the galka runs out then he's not doing his"

Me: "Invalid argument, I've raised him twice!"

Anyway the way I see it you have five races.

Galka, Elvaan, Hume, Mithra, Tantaru
Melee x x x x NO
Mage NO x x x x

That little thought process make the middle three classes very preffereable for whatever job/subjob combo you come up with.

[Patchinko]

Actually, I can't agree, since you used DRK as the example. DRK isn't supposed to be taking hits anyhow, and his base defense is so pathetic anyhow, race hardly matters. A Taru DRK can take about one hit less than an Elvaan DRK (speaking from experience :spin: ) against ITs. It's not ideal, but it's not out of the question like a Galka WHM who doesn't even have enough MP at lvl25 to cast Raise once!

However, because taking hate and hits are the most important part of WAR and especially PLD, these two jobs are all but forbidden. A Taru PLD is comparable to a Galka WHM. :spin: A Taru WAR is a pipe dream since he deals damage well and is fast, but can't take damage well enough to make him a good enough tank.

[Zempten]

I'm a 33 RDM/ 16 BLM

I don't find MP a problem and this is before I even have Refresh.

Here is my view on it (not saying it is superior or anything just the way I see things): MP is not a problem because your not the main healer - your doing a variety of stuff : backup healing , enfeebling, nuking for MB....etc. Currently I'm at 239 MP but this is with some crappy armor. I know I can boast that to up to 260+ by getting some more armor if I wanted my MP that bad. THe downside about this is you have to work hard for the gil for the items ( They range from 50k to 60k a piece ). Later on you get Refresh, Convert ( use Regen to help get the HP back converted to MP), Clear Mind, and 20 BLM ability to have spells cost less to cast. So there isn't really a problem with having your RDM be a elvaan or anything if you ask me.

This is how i see it - perhaps it is flawed? Possibly - but I'm loving my RDM and I'll stick with it

[Rekiem]

I would think that Elvaan can make great RDM past level 41. Reason is because of Refresh and the use of MP.

I mean, think about it, whats the point of having alot of MP like Taru? It just take more time to recover anyway.

Another thing is Refresh. This spell is gold. Combined with Bard Mage Ballad song, its almost like having infinite MP so theres no point in having all those MP. Had Convert with this and MP shouldn't be a problem.

So, in the end, why would a Taru be a better RDM than an Elvaan?

[Discordian]

As you move into the relm of level 2 blm spells and costs of MP go up into 40mp+ things get expensive to cast. I'm already looking for some HP to MP jewelry.

[Patchinko]

Originally posted by Rekiem
So, in the end, why would a Taru be a better RDM than an Elvaan? At lvl41, the answer should be very obvious.

ADDN: Just want to add that I know a number of Elvaan mages that are quite good players and can make up for the disadvantage of their race by altering their playing style in subtle ways, but as far as potential, there's more for a Taru, just as there's more in melee classes for an Elvaan.

[Rekiem]

I don't see whats so obvious actually. Whats the point for a Taru of having all those MP if they recover almost faster than you use them(unless you cast elemental magic and your the only healer in the PT). I play as a bard mostly and when I have a RDM in my PT, we stack both Refresh and Ballad song. We both heal and support the team and our MP regen faster than we use them. After the end of the fight we don't even need to rest because our MP are back to full. We can chain EXP nonestop, the only thing that slow us down is the respawn timer on the monsters. So, once again, what makes a Taru better with the RDM job than an Elvaan past 41 exactly?

[Rekiem]

I don't see whats so obvious actually. Whats the point for a Taru of having all those MP if they recover almost faster than you use them(unless you cast elemental magic and your the only healer in the PT). I play as a bard mostly and when I have a RDM in my PT, we stack both Refresh and Ballad song. We both heal and support the team and our MP regen faster than we use them. After the end of the fight we don't even need to rest because our MP are back to full. We can chain EXP nonestop, the only thing that slow us down is the respawn timer on the monsters. So, once again, what makes a Taru better with the RDM job than an Elvaan past 41 exactly?

[Oro]

As important as MP is, it is not so vital for a RDM to focus there efforts entirely on MP. When I was leveling my BLM, I pushed INT and MP only, no other stats mattered to me.

RDM is a little different, your emfebbling skills excel that of other mages and so are the enhancing magic. What I am trying to say is do not worry to much about your MP, especially after refresh, just make sure your PT members have refresh active as often as possible (like always). Without contradicting myself, by all means raise mp if you want to, but dont let race be an issue for RDM, because RDM is such a diverse job, inside and outside battle that every race can play it well in one situation or another :)

Infact I only have 2 items for my RDM that boots mp, all my other equipment range from enhancing enweapon to a little attack, to defense, MND, a little INT etc etc

[SharMarali]

Glad to see a high level elf RDM finally posted.. I was beginning to think it was going to be all up to me. ^^

For the first 40 levels or so, I found myself wishing all too often that I had picked MIT instead of elf. But you know what? Nowadays, I don't feel like I'm handicapped too terribly much by being an elf. To begin with, a mithra or hume at my level has only about 70 more MP than me. 70 MP does not make or break a battle.

Also, I feel that if you play a job that perhaps isn't 100% suited for your race, it forces you to become a better player by the time you take it to a high level. So while the level 20-30 elf mages might not be so great, 60+ they've all figured out their niches and do a fantastic job. I've never PTed with a bad elvaan WHM in AF gear. Ever. And I've PTed with several elf WHMs in AF.

This whole concept of "MP makes the mage" is silly, in my opinion. Tarus have more MP, sure, and most of them tend to waste their MP doing stupid things that elf and galka mages would never do (unecessary holies, etc). If you have enough MP to do your job and do it well, anything above that is just gravy.

[Solistam]

Here here brother Elvaan RDMs.. I can say it no better than it has already been said.

[Patchinko]

Originally posted by SharMarali
Also, I feel that if you play a job that perhaps isn't 100% suited for your race, it forces you to become a better player by the time you take it to a high level. So while the level 20-30 elf mages might not be so great, 60+ they've all figured out their niches and do a fantastic job. I've never PTed with a bad elvaan WHM in AF gear. Ever. And I've PTed with several elf WHMs in AF.
Definately. Since lvl18, I've been stuck in PTs with some truly terrible Taru mages and Elvaan melees, exactly for that reason, and I know from playing WAR that it takes a lot more for me to get any kind of respect regardless of that fact. These people are too incompetant to excell at a job that their race might be counterproductive towards, but are still able to play just well enough to get by if they have as many advantages as they can get.

I would hope that by lvl60+, most people have figured out how to play their job quite well. If not, that's simply pathetic. :biggrin:

[Oro]

Originally posted by SharMarali
Glad to see a high level elf RDM finally posted.. I was beginning to think it was going to be all up to me. ^^

For the first 40 levels or so, I found myself wishing all too often that I had picked MIT instead of elf. But you know what? Nowadays, I don't feel like I'm handicapped too terribly much by being an elf. To begin with, a mithra or hume at my level has only about 70 more MP than me. 70 MP does not make or break a battle.

Also, I feel that if you play a job that perhaps isn't 100% suited for your race, it forces you to become a better player by the time you take it to a high level. So while the level 20-30 elf mages might not be so great, 60+ they've all figured out their niches and do a fantastic job. I've never PTed with a bad elvaan WHM in AF gear. Ever. And I've PTed with several elf WHMs in AF.

This whole concept of "MP makes the mage" is silly, in my opinion. Tarus have more MP, sure, and most of them tend to waste their MP doing stupid things that elf and galka mages would never do (unecessary holies, etc). If you have enough MP to do your job and do it well, anything above that is just gravy.

SharMarali, you spoke my own taboo :sweat:

I didnt quite want to say that but you said it, and said it truthly and accuratly ^^. While leveling BLM well knowing I didnt have the mp to nuke it taru style, I learned to converse my mp, im not saying tarus doesnt do that, as it happens I know a 66WHM who I PT often with who barely leaves a battle with less than 800mp (out of a little over 900). But taking my BLM up to 60 definitly changed my play style.

Just a tiny bit of background info on me, I raised RDM to 24 about a year ago, picked it up last summer after I bought the spells to take it to 60+ (refresh phalanx etc). The first time round I would be subbing all sorts of crap for leveling PTs, and would whore out spells like cure2 the moment i hit 14, unresourceful play. Once I picked up RDM again, and played imo a whole lot better, with regen I found I was using cure 1 as high as lv40s, as a base cure for smooth battles. Im just reassuring doubtful elvaans and galkas it really does work! If you are still failing to consume mp and things fall apart even though you are doing your best (wether u recongnise this or not) it may be other PT members in the wrong....

Another thing to bear in mind, is a smooth battle with a good job lineup would not consume all your mp in one round lol, if anything a smooth PT wont even lose all their mp after a 5th chain

[SyNapSe]

One thing to keep in the back of your mind is I believe Male Elvaan get some very nice +MP RSE gear. :)

So, that will definately help you out. The only downside is there will still be some players who don't want you in the party because they have predetermined that you can't be a good mage. You dont really want to be in their party anyway!

[Discordian]

yar!

I've been conserving the MP a lot since earlier this week. My parties melee damage is steadily going up so I'm having to nuke less. However the amount of enfeebling that I'm having to do is going up. I'm having to blind goblin robbers two or three times over the course of a fight.

This next week will be a cooldown week since we need to level up our subs again. MP is for the spendthrift, I've been hitting our warriors with regen these days since its a cheaper version of cure2, just takes longer.

Learn convert at level 40. Learn how to use it to keep chains and downtimes going or keep it in reserve for when something goes horribly wrong. That ability is powerful the moment you get it.

[SharMarali]

Originally posted by SyNapSe
One thing to keep in the back of your mind is I believe Male Elvaan get some very nice +MP RSE gear. :)


For the record.. Female elvaans do too ^^

Now, I've never really looked at male elf RSE, since it's of no use to me. I'm not sure if the stats are identical or what, but my RSE adds 60 MP, plus about 5 INT and some decent DEX too. Which is nice because I don't have to buy gear for my BLM ^^

[Gman]

It's funny to see the Taru vs Elvaan argument, because it's the race I plan on being vs the race I played through beta.

My thoughts. Elvaans are gimped for MP... I repeat... GIMPED, at least until they can get their RSE gear, and then Refresh/convert at level 40+. I couldn't be the main anything in a PT between 28-36 because of the low MP. There always had to be another mage to heal.

On the flip side, I think you could make an argument that Tarus can melee. Instead of buying +MP gear like you would for Elvaans, you buy +STR/VIT/HP. FYI, a level 40 Taru with it's RSE gear has as much STR as a Hume of the same level. I'm not sure about higher levels though...

Anyway, with experience, and the right equips, any race can be effective at any job. Just not "the best"

[Plenum]

it seriously doenst matter dude... once you get the right gear everyones freakin equal!!! so pick whatever.. i mean pick which ever you think is the prettiest of them all and stick with it... i mean ive seen good elvaan whm and ive seen great taru paladin so now im beggining to think race is not even an issue in what character you want, race is just a factor in ur personality ! =D

Edit: Extremely Tired... at the moment.. i must sleep

[Icemage]

it seriously doenst matter dude... once you get the right gear everyones freakin equal!!! so pick whatever.. i mean pick which ever you think is the prettiest of them all and stick with it... i mean ive seen good elvaan whm and ive seen great taru paladin so now im beggining to think race is not even an issue in what character you want, race is just a factor in ur personality ! =D

Umm... no. You can play a "decent" Elvaan WHM, but you'll never be "equal" to a Tarutaru. By the same token... I'm sorry, but Tarutaru PLD just don't tank very will at level 45+. When enemies can use special attacks for 85% of their max HP in one hit, there's a problem. ^^

Race DOES matter. You can make up for some of the shortcomings for your race using equipment and food, but only up to a point.


Icemage

[Zempten]

For other jobs perhaps Icemagae but a RDM is a bit different. With Convert, MP, refresh, food, and some right gear. You can pretty much do just as good as other RDMs

Sure a Taru Taru RDM has TONS of MP and put on some food stuff and hell they might not even have to sit down at all. Elvaan can do pretty much the same thing but they must do subtle things to make up for their short comings.

Just play what you like, isn't this what the game is for? To let's us play what we want to have fun. If were not having fun with out character then why in the world was the point in making it in the first place.

I like my elvaan RDM cause he looks cool. Sorry I like the looks of my characters and I can still carry a exp chain up to 5 or 7 before whm has to rest. That isn't so bad is it now?

[Zempten]

Originally posted by Icemage


You can play a "decent" Elvaan WHM, but you'll never be "equal" to a Tarutaru.

Icemage

BTW, were talking about Elvaan RDMs ^^ not WHM hehehehe :)

[TMPikachu]

Elvaan have the best strength in the game

with that, I reason, later on, you'll have fair chances of breaking things with your sword even later on in the game.

With a lotta accuracy/attack raising swag, of course. I plan on creating a Rdm able to melee all throughout the game, so far it's worked out pretty well, only lvl 24 currently tho'.

[Icemage]

BTW, were talking about Elvaan RDMs ^^ not WHM hehehehe

... check the quote in my post - I was responding to the examples of Elvaan WHM and Tarutaru PLD specifically. ;P

I actually think Elvaan make excellent RDM. Refresh and Convert go a long way towards addressing their low MP at 41+, so I have no issues with Elvaan RDM. WHM on the other hand, don't have those advantages, so Elvaan WHM are a totally different case.

Elvaan have the best strength in the game

with that, I reason, later on, you'll have fair chances of breaking things with your sword even later on in the game.

With a lotta accuracy/attack raising swag, of course. I plan on creating a Rdm able to melee all throughout the game, so far it's worked out pretty well, only lvl 24 currently tho'.

If you think you're going to melee as a RDM past level 41... well... just don't say no one warned you when you get there, 'k? :) Most RDM I see at level 41+ (the good ones - i.e. has Refresh) don't even bother pulling out their weapons in fights anymore, because they are too busy casting spells. Red mages are MAGES - at higher levels, you will not be able to hit things with your sword, no matter what your equipment or subjob, and if you try you're only going to hurt your performance. If you want to go through the game being able to hit things and still cast spells, I'd recommend Paladin or Dark Knight, because RDM stop being effective in melee after level 41.


Icemage

[Xyphere]

I'm level 52 right now and I am glad I'm a Elvaan instead of a Hume :P. After Refresh MP isnt as big as a deal in the levels before and dont worry about MP at level 40 rdm gets convert (switches MP and HP) so you can keep on casting and casting..

[Zempten]

I'm sorry Icemage, please forgive

[TMPikachu]

would Drk/Rdm be a functional figher/caster then?

[Discordian]

drk/rdm wouldn't have a high enfeeble. drk/whm may do you better so that you can heal yourself. That is from a half solo / half party perspective. Its all how you make it work really.

Refresh is awesome. I start my refresh by refreshing myself, then the blm, then even the paladin. Paladin's love this. It keeps their TP because they don't have to rest and they have more MP to give themselves a heal. Also helps the WHM. Thats also from a perspective of two rdms in the party, WOOT WOOT ^^

[Xyphere]

Originally posted by TMPikachu
would Drk/Rdm be a functional figher/caster then?

Oi, not the best combo...just stick with /THF or /WAR....

[albert lee]

Actually, I can't agree, since you used DRK as the example. DRK isn't supposed to be taking hits anyhow, and his base defense is so pathetic anyhow, race hardly matters.

i know this is old, but my def is better than a rdm's... lol. why the hell does eveyone think drk has a crappy base defense? its the same people.

[Discordian]

Dark Knight is a warrior with a little bit of magic.

Red Mage is a mage with a little bit of melee.

You can take hits better than a rdm because you are more oriented, however you'd rather let a Paladin take it. Same with rdm and nuking, better to use a full blm than a rdm. rdm is support.

[Nexus]

A few words: AT the start I felt like startn over a mithra or hume. But No i didnt! why? because....

When You get Convert You own

WIth our High HP, You can Nuke and Nuke and heal your heart away. And think of PVP! Convert+refresh+elemental seal+ bind +2hr= Ownage

[Zempten]

I thought I remebered seeing PvP as not beeing Player killing Player, maybe I am mistaken.

[Tulerin]

Tarutaru for one reason, and one reason only: Obviously the best looking race~

I just cant see myself going thru the game looking like the other "non" good looking races ^.^

[Cyndane]

Just want to mention a couple things about an Elvaan RDM that I've noticed. For one thing, everyone is putting a lot of emphasis on the RDMs role in a party. Obviously that role is support. Usually in the form of Debuffs, wich take little mp to cast. But everyone seems to be overlooking one major thing.... a RDMs ability to solo. My lvl 30 Elvaan RDM has been able to solo T mobs since lvl 1. Take note of the spells available to a RDM. A RDM has many spells that he/she can only cast on themselves. And the RDM only spells are all designed for a RDM to solo. RDM can't do melee? Not on ITs, but they can definately put some pain on Ts. Why give a RDM the "En" spells, if they were never meant to melee? Because those spells are no good after lvl 40? Then why is the Enhancing Sword lvl 70? My problem with all of the RDM arguments I see is that the RDM is never viewed in the right context. And I firmly beleive that an Elvaan RDM is the best in a RDM's natural element. Sure, Humes have a little more mp, but it will never outweigh the fact that Elvaan have more strength and mind. In a solo fight, these are the things that make the difference. When I'm sick of suffering because of other's mistakes.... I can always go get 140 exp per fight by myself. ;)

[Discordian]

One little thing of note that people forget when they say elvaan rdm's sucks (I firmly believe they don't) is that they DO have a much higher MND stat for getting enfeeble magic off. That is what makes a redmage's A+ skill of enfeebling shine. I'm fairly sure that a elvaan rdm would only need to cast Slow once or twice on IT++ enemies that take me 2 or 3 times, thats time and mp saved right there. Time is valuable.

[Beener]

Cyndane:

I'm on Valefor, i'd love to see you solo a tough pugil in qufim. Seriously i'd pay you 2k to do it. Get up with me /t xerlaoth

2k for one kill, think about it and see if it is worth the 500 exp you WILL lose.

[Oro]

Originally posted by Icemage

If you think you're going to melee as a RDM past level 41... well... just don't say no one warned you when you get there, 'k? :) Most RDM I see at level 41+ (the good ones - i.e. has Refresh) don't even bother pulling out their weapons in fights anymore, because they are too busy casting spells. Red mages are MAGES - at higher levels, you will not be able to hit things with your sword, no matter what your equipment or subjob, and if you try you're only going to hurt your performance. If you want to go through the game being able to hit things and still cast spells, I'd recommend Paladin or Dark Knight, because RDM stop being effective in melee after level 41.


Icemage

Hi again!

I'll have to disagree with that, if a RDM is not drawing their weapon, the only time a RDM should not draw their weapon is if their risking themself from doing their job well (like when a gobbue silences the PT members in range). Other times is if the PT is not functioning properly. Im lv69 and have sword and dagger capped. One thing to point out, I dont mean RDMs participate in renkei's and such, but you can throw in the odd WS when possible, especially WSs like spirits within or energy drain, very useful addition to making a PT as fast as possible

[Apple Pie]

Elvaan have more strength and mind. In a solo fight, these are the things that make the difference.
I don't think so. There is only 7 points difference between Elvaan and Hume at LV70 as for STR.

7 STR = 3.5 => +3 Attack. That's it for sword. There is no difference at all.

It is different if your main weapon is grapple though. STR makes a huge difference for it since the way to calculate the damage is different between grapple and other weapons.

The same for MND. It may make some difference in landing enfeebling spells on VT or stronger mobs in PT but I'm pretty sure it doesn't make any difference in solo where we can only take tough, even match, or weaker. Even Galka red mages never fail to land enfeeblings.

[Icemage]

Hi again!

I'll have to disagree with that, if a RDM is not drawing their weapon, the only time a RDM should not draw their weapon is if their risking themself from doing their job well (like when a gobbue silences the PT members in range). Other times is if the PT is not functioning properly. Im lv69 and have sword and dagger capped. One thing to point out, I dont mean RDMs participate in renkei's and such, but you can throw in the odd WS when possible, especially WSs like spirits within or energy drain, very useful addition to making a PT as fast as possible


I'm not positive I agree, and I'll tell you why.

I've got a theory about monster special attacks, and have been doing some experimenting lately. I'm not positive this is how it works but my observations seem to point to this:

From what I can tell, monsters activate their special attacks the same way players do - by charging TP and using it when it hits 100% or higher. The more often players hit a monster, the more often it uses special attacks/abilities.

If you're hitting the monster for a handful of damage 15 times to charge enough TP to activate a WS ... you're also giving the monster more TP to activate a special attack with. Granted the effect might be small... I don't know. But I seem to be seeing a trend in my parties lately. Parties with fast attackers, such as thieves, seem to get hit with monster special attacks more often.

If you want to see what I'm talking about, walk out to a newbie area and cast Blind on a rabbit without engaging it. It will sit there forever trying to damage you and failing. It will get no TP if your Defense is high enough because it will hit for 0. Watch how long it takes before it can even try to activate a special like Foot Kick, Dust Cloud, or Whirl Claws. You'll be waiting a very, very long time.

This is not to say that the damage you deal with your hits + your WS doesn't offset this. But my point is that it's not "free damage." I used to agree with you 100%... now I'm not so sure.


Icemage

[TMPikachu]

I think monsters use their moves based on the amount of hp's they've got

fighting VT bunnies in valkurm, some would just go berzerk with spinning kicks and all at low low health (we were doing tiny damage and whittling it down, it was just throwing out these moves)

[Oro]

Icemage, you bring a very valid point.

Yes you are right about enemy and tp, I honestly only figured that out when my BST hit 25, using the ability sic. I didnt think about the fact I was giving enemy TP, although.. how else will you raise WS? Skillup PTs are okish (RDMs can solo til very high WS), but dealing the minor damage in a PT is imo pretty good, I think it depends on the individual player, do you value your small hits? I personally do, every little counts in this game (hence players paying 100k for <insert minor stat difference>

I just feel a RDM may very well regret leveling all their skills possible (as will anyjob). Although I hope I dont sound like im steering RDM towards melee side, im not (although RDM can tank in odd circumstances)

Of course I'll have to stress again I dont participate in all mobs, but grand majority I do. And last thing to remember, a 'good' PT will probably end alot of fights fairly fast earning you your 3-5k per hour xp, so I wouldnt worry about enemy ability, unless its something like spiders and bats lol, still fight em though

Its just a matter of style preference really :spin:

[Apple Pie]

Icemage, you're correct about your TP theory. I'm actually the one killed by moss eaters in Boyahda while we're hunting robber crabs. Couldn't believe about 12 people started to hit rabbits to store their TP just next to us before they engaged with Aquarius. I'm sure you knew what happened to me there :P

Well, however, think of how many times red mages can hit mobs in each battle (60 - 90 secs in my LV) while we do casting. I think their TP increased by our attacks is minor. By the way, additional damages from En- spells don't increase it as theirs' don't increase ours.

Although it depends on our PT configuration, I think we should melee if they don't have any critical AoE (only raptors now, hehe) and if we have good gears to increase our accuracy and DEX (switch them with macros).

[Frarinalga]

I chose Elvaan for several reasons.
Mind stat is a very important variable in enfeeble magic.
And past 41, lack of mp should not be a large issue (even though it will be at a small degree, it always is for mages). And the level where I gain refresh is about the time that red mages become totally useless in close quarters combat :biggrin:.
I made myself a hume red mage, but I just couldn't stand it. Hume was not for me. Without a doubt, I could not stand being a transvestite kitten (mithra), or dog nosed midget (Taru). I've always been an Elf player, from being a high elf cleric in EQ to Elf Ranger in EQOA, to Elvaan Redmage in FFXI :). Yay Elves.
My main job I plan on leveling is my red mage, but I also plan on dipping into some samurai/warrior for a bit of fun :). That's the great thing about ffxi, with a single character, you don't have to limit yourself to playing only one class.
Redmage is probably the most diverse class, you can pick any job and make it work effectively. (galka? Uh...you decide) In the top levels, elvaan lack around 75-100 less mp than a hume/mithra, I can easily make that up with some equipment, and I will have a higher mind stat. Yes, I know the hume/mithra could use the same equipment and get more than me, but I have more melee potential and enfeeble efficiency.
Yay for Elvaan.

[EtRNaL168]

A Japanese Elvan that I just partied with tonight had 610 MP at Lvl 47, and myself, on the other hand, had only 525 as a Hume. Hehe I wonder why.

His job was BLM/?; I forgot what his subjob was.

-EtrNaL

[Apple Pie]

Suppose he was 47BLM/23WHM. His basic MP is 394. I guess what he wore was something like:

- Cast Wand : [B]+20MP
- Electrum Hairpin [LV40]: +25MP
- Holy Phial [LV26]: +9MP
- Ryl.Sqr. Robe [LV40, Sand d'Oria Rank 4]: +10MP
- Magna Gauntlets [LV27, RSE]: +24MP
- Friar's Rope [LV14]: +5MP
- Magna M Chausses [LV31, RSE]: +12MP
- Magna M Ledelsens [LV29, RSE]: +20MP
- 2 sets of Valor Earing [LV17]: +6MP
- 2 sets of Electrum Ring [LV40]: +40MP

- Total: +171MP

If he ate Rolanberry Pies, he got another 50MP. Therefore, he boosted total 221MP. 394 + 221 = 615MP. It isn't difficult to achive this.

[tdh]

I went with Elvaan for beta. Mainly due to the MND stat, but the higher STR also helped me go that route.

I had no doubt in my mind what job class I was going to go with. RDM all the way to Lv32 before beta ended. I meleed with the melee cats, and kept up with the BLM and WHM mages. Never heard a complaint from anybody I ever partied with, and my LS mates seemed to like calling on my services as well.

Now I hear that at Lv33 is when a RDM joins the BLM and WHM in the back row, and I never made it that far before Oct. 14th. I know I didn't do as much damage as the other melee cats I partied with, but I did enough contribute. (Keep in mind that was with En-hance spells)

One thing about being Elvaan AOE's didn't really scare me. I never did enough damage to draw hate, and I didn't waste the MP for a Protect II on myself since I rarely took damage. I always instructed the WHM to heal me last.

But I knew that I wasn't a melee guy. I knew my job was to throw enfeebling spells, nuke, and back up heal! I never neglected those duties. And the only time I really felt like I suffered from lower MP then a Hume/Mithra was when I was forced into being the Cure Monkey due to now WHM. (And goodness did I hate that!)

So I think Elvaan is very viable for RDM. However I felt the strain at times when trying to level my BLM support job. :sweat: