Sneak macro question

[Tets]

Just turned 15 a few days ago, and I still can't get my Sneak + Burning Macro to work ; I have no problem with either separately, but using both will fail miserably.

My script is something like this :
/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/ws "Fast Blade" <t>

Do I need to put something in between ? A pause or something ?
Thanks for any help, it's hell trying to do it manually ...

[DJplaeskool]

Insert a /wait command for 1 or 2 seconds...

The proximity of the commands, without a pause, will more than likely generate a command error...

[Xeross]

my macro has been

/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/wait 1
/ws "Fast Blade" <t>

the only problem with this is that if there is lag, it sometimes wont initilize the fast blade... which is REALLY damn annoying.

i would use 2 seconds, but I'm worried that I might get a swing in there before FB starts, thus making the attack really weak

[GSDragoon]

Kinda off topic but why would you use sneak attack with a weapon skill? The dmg bonus is much more when you use sneak attack by itself. I find it better to use sneak attack alone and a weapon skill separate. Subbing THF is different. I hear the dmg bonus is only when you have THF as main.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by GSDragoon
Kinda off topic but why would you use sneak attack with a weapon skill?
Renkei.

[vudoodoodoo]

ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/wait 2
/ws "Weapon Skill"

is what I use and it works fine. No regular attacks happen in between.
I use it with Fast Blade right now and it does alot of damage. I also use it to start renkei.

[GSDragoon]

Renkei.

So you use sneak attack and the fast blade creates a renki off that?? I'm confused.

[bside]

i think it's better to have 2 separate macros for sneak attack and ws. lag is one reason, and the fact that u use sneak attack without ws anyways, is the second.

just make those 2 macros next to each other, and select sneak attack, and then ws. it's safer, and more accurate. and that's what i do.


as for GSDragoon's question, use of sneak and trick attack along w/ ws adds more damage to ur ws, regardless of renkei. so if u finish the incurve renkei, for example, w/ fast blade w/ sneak and trick attacks, the damage will be like 300 for fast blade, and another 200 or so for incurve. whereas if u use it without, the damage will be like 80 for fast blade and 50 for incurve.

btw, if u use the sneak attack w/ "attributed" ws' such as burning blade, no, it won't be as strong as using sneak attack alone, simply because sneak attack doesn't go together w/ them. ("attributed" ws' r considered elemental attacks, and sneak attack only applies to physical attacks.)

[Spider-Dan]

As I understand it, if you use sneak/trick on a 1-hit elemental WS (Gust Slash, Burning Blade, etc.) it will do the same damage as if you did a normal melee sneak/trick attack; no increase or decrease in damage, just basically a waste of TP.

The reason why is because the SA/TA bonuses are added to multiple hit WS (Fast Blade, Combo, Dancing Edge, etc.), and most of the elemental WS (before Viper Bite, at least) are one hit. This is why Wasp Sting does no extra damage, but Viper Bite does plenty of extra damage, even though they are both poison WS; Wasp Sting is 1 hit, but Viper Bite is 2.

...at least, that's how it was explained to me.

[Arctyc]

As I understand it, if you use sneak/trick on a 1-hit elemental WS (Gust Slash, Burning Blade, etc.) it will do the same damage as if you did a normal melee sneak/trick attack; no increase or decrease in damage, just basically a waste of TP.


You understand almost correctly.

While Sneak Attack will not trigger the damage bonus off of an elemental WS like Gust Slash, it will also not trigger at all. The Attack Bonus icon and effect remains active until your next melee attack, upon which the standard SA bonus is applied.

"You use Sneak Attack. <-- SA active
You ready Gust Slash.
You use Gust Slash.
Monster takes XX damage. <-- WS damage
You critically hit the Monster.
Monster takes XX damage. <-- SA damage
"



Wasp Sting does stack with SA, though only so effectively. Since there is no damage multiplier to the physical strike from this WS (same as with Shadowstitch), the damage you'll do will be comparable to a standard SA. However, you will notice the damage stack, as your log window will go something like this:

"You use Sneak Attack. <-- SA active
You ready Shadowstitch.
You use Shadowstitch.
Monster takes XX damage. <-- Stacked WS & SA damage.
You hit the Monster for X damage. <-- Standard, non-SA damage.
"

[Xeross]

Originally posted by GSDragoon


So you use sneak attack and the fast blade creates a renki off that?? I'm confused.

You are level 23 and you don't know how a renkei works? what the hell...

No, sneak + fast blade does not make a renkei, he said renkei because(this has already been answerd but I'm saying it again anyway) with renkei, you can do more damage then with Sneak + FB then the two split.

At my level normal fast blade does 20-40. (on IT/totetote)If this is in a chain it will add about 15-25 renkei damage. Sneak does anywhere between 40-80.

So we have 75-145 for both.

Sneak + Fastblade does between 70-150(on IT/totetote). The renkei off of this can be between about 35-90.

So for those two combined we have between 105-240 damage.

Yes I did about 240 w/ distortion on an IT Goblin Leecher.

NOTE: The renkei damage is if the enemy is weak to that element. If you do something like Scisson(earth) on the goblin you will get between about 1-10 damage off of it with both.

[Sinzer]

You are level 23 and you don't know how a renkei works?

Come to Shiva, I have partied with level 20 Adv jobs who still don't know how renkei works, or have any real idea of how to PT effectively.

The only parties I have been in that work REALLY well are JP parties. This is not due to experience I believe, but due to a different mentality in playing the game.

If EN parties actually listened to what someone experienced said they would get the same 1.5K to 2K exp. The sad fact is that I have gotten tired of trying to explain how to renkei, so I usually just wait for someone to use their WS and hope I am on the ball enough to renkei off it.

Every EN player (note I am not saying NA! as I am from UK :p) should play in a PT of JP once, just to get an idea of what they can really do, before they bring up the old argument of renkei doesn't really add any damage, or food is expensive rubbish.

[Xeross]

Originally posted by Sinzer


Come to Shiva, I have partied with level 20 Adv jobs who still don't know how renkei works, or have any real idea of how to PT effectively.

The only parties I have been in that work REALLY well are JP parties. This is not due to experience I believe, but due to a different mentality in playing the game.

If EN parties actually listened to what someone experienced said they would get the same 1.5K to 2K exp. The sad fact is that I have gotten tired of trying to explain how to renkei, so I usually just wait for someone to use their WS and hope I am on the ball enough to renkei off it.

Every EN player (note I am not saying NA! as I am from UK :p) should play in a PT of JP once, just to get an idea of what they can really do, before they bring up the old argument of renkei doesn't really add any damage, or food is expensive rubbish.

I still think food is expensive... but not rubbish, I just have no cash right now... which is why i'm farming christmas fireworks ^^

Anyway I know the feeling, I've grouped with a DRK who thought renkei damage couldn't go above 40, and a PLD who didn't know how to keep agro well(ie provoking every 30 sec + healing himself)

Usually I find there is always ONE person who will renkei with me(and do it well) in my group. Whats nice is that with being a thf I ALWAYS finish the renkei, so I don't have to worry about the person being stupid w/ timing.(also why I usually set up a 2 person renkei). I just try not to push everyone in trying to cooperate, cuz they never do.

Funny thing... the best group I ever had was in palborough mines at level 10-12 with no adv job or sub job in our group. We were pulling off Liquification & Fusion chains like it was nothing. We all knew how to play our character... it was amazing.

Now I always manage to get stuck with a stupid(and pussy) tank or a laggy healer. Its a pain in the ass. But even though I haven't groups in a jap group yet, I do know how it CAN be since I've had about 4 groups that just ROCKED. But its so rare since so many english players don't give a shit if they are playing their character right or wrong, they just want to "have fun".

[Arctyc]

Every EN player (note I am not saying NA! as I am from UK ) should play in a PT of JP once, just to get an idea of what they can really do, before they bring up the old argument of renkei doesn't really add any damage, or food is expensive rubbish.

Oh now don't be unfair, I've partied with other Beta'ers and had an absolute blast. Skill and knowledge isn't JP-exclusive, it just takes some time to learn and practice. :)

[John Doe III]

Originally posted by Arctyc


Oh now don't be unfair, I've partied with other Beta'ers and had an absolute blast. Skill and knowledge isn't JP-exclusive, it just takes some time to learn and practice. :)

No...actually most NA players are just plain stupid..>.>. You know it's true.

[peregrine]

No...actually most NA players are just plain stupid..>.>. You know it's true.

Main/Sub: THF/SAM
Level: 52/25

^^^^^^
Underleveled sub imo. ;)

[Nameless]

One level isn't bad :P

I'm not taking WAR past 10 out of pure laziness (and I plan on using NIN after 30)

And most EN are stupid. I don't care about sub (unless you're a Galka mage), but they don't know how to do things. I was hoping people in Qufim would be smarter than selbina >.> but no.

My pt last night:

Tank
V
Enemy
^
other attacker
^
>=( me I just used sneak and now you're going to use provoke? Die?

[John Doe III]

Originally posted by peregrine


Main/Sub: THF/SAM
Level: 52/25

^^^^^^
Underleveled sub imo. ;)

Actually i'm still 51 smart one :) Put one level ahead becuase I dont want to come back to the forums the next day to change.

[Arctyc]

Oh honestly people, you act as if you were never there yourself.

If you weren't, do you recall why? That's right, you had someone helpful enough to show you the ropes before you made the mistake, and who gently corrected you when you did, instead of getting pissy and elitist.

Everyone's a newbie at least once -- I was when I started beta, I remember throwing away Beastmen's Seals for the longest time because I didn't know what they did. You were a n3wb at some time too. Give them their leeway. If they persist being idiots after having a clear explanation given and an example of proper execution (Skillchaining, etc), then perhaps you can bring out the "stupid" comments. This game tosses new content and changes in paradigm quite often. A White Mage may be great, but have that one stupid moment when they figure out at level 16-17 that a full-on Seal+Curaga during a heated battle is a bad idea. Is that cause enough to crucify them?

My friend list continues to swell with great people, many of them newbies themselves who took quickly to party tactics and made grouping with them a pleasure.

[Xeross]

Originally posted by Arctyc
My friend list continues to swell with great people, many of them newbies themselves who took quickly to party tactics and made grouping with them a pleasure.

I consider someone a newb when they cant understand party tactics, even when I try to help them out. What you mentioned is not a noob

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by Arctyc


You understand almost correctly.

While Sneak Attack will not trigger the damage bonus off of an elemental WS like Gust Slash, it will also not trigger at all. The Attack Bonus icon and effect remains active until your next melee attack, upon which the standard SA bonus is applied.

"You use Sneak Attack. <-- SA active
You ready Gust Slash.
You use Gust Slash.
Monster takes XX damage. <-- WS damage
You critically hit the Monster.
Monster takes XX damage. <-- SA damage
"



Wasp Sting does stack with SA, though only so effectively. Since there is no damage multiplier to the physical strike from this WS (same as with Shadowstitch), the damage you'll do will be comparable to a standard SA. However, you will notice the damage stack, as your log window will go something like this:

"You use Sneak Attack. <-- SA active
You ready Shadowstitch.
You use Shadowstitch.
Monster takes XX damage. <-- Stacked WS & SA damage.
You hit the Monster for X damage. <-- Standard, non-SA damage.
"

OK, so the way I understood it applies to Wasp Sting, but not Gust Slash.

Just clarifying though... are you sure that SA is not triggered by Burning Blade? I vaguely remember Burning Blade "using up" the SA icon, but then again, I thought I remembered Gust Slash and Shoulder Tackle using it as well. I guess I'll test it out later.

[dIABEU]

Originally posted by peregrine


Main/Sub: THF/SAM
Level: 52/25

^^^^^^
Underleveled sub imo. ;)

or he could have gone as a samurai only up to lvl 25, couldn't he?
:)
me not n00b, me still learnin'
cheers!
d.

[GSDragoon]

Ok, I finally reasized what you are talking about. And yes, I know what a renki is. SA will stack with FB, but i didn't know what effects the skillchain dmg. I usually start the renki, since my WAR friend did more dmg than me. Yesterday I was fighting in Delfucts(spelling) tower fighting gobs. This time I was the last one in the renki. I used my SA with FB. Wow! I didn't realize that the FB dmg reflects the Scission dmg too. So, what I didn't get is that SA indirectly adds to Scission dmg.

[John Doe III]

Originally posted by dIABEU


or he could have gone as a samurai only up to lvl 25, couldn't he?
:)
me not n00b, me still learnin'
cheers!
d.

I'm leaving Samurai at 25 for other job purposes, i'm going to raise Ninja and Dark Knight up to the same level and then up to 30 when I have free time...which is only on weekends. Then use all 3 as subs when i want.

[Xeross]

Originally posted by GSDragoon
Ok, I finally reasized what you are talking about. And yes, I know what a renki is. SA will stack with FB, but i didn't know what effects the skillchain dmg. I usually start the renki, since my WAR friend did more dmg than me. Yesterday I was fighting in Delfucts(spelling) tower fighting gobs. This time I was the last one in the renki. I used my SA with FB. Wow! I didn't realize that the FB dmg reflects the Scission dmg too. So, what I didn't get is that SA indirectly adds to Scission dmg.

This is what I have found so far, at least with the level enemies I have been fighting.

Note these are observations, and not proved, but its been held true for the most part.

When you do an element that the enemy is STRONG against(IE. Scission(Earth element) vs. worms) the damage will do almost nothing.

When you do an element that the enemy is NEUTRAL against(IE not resistent, but not weak either) the damage can be anywhere from 1/3rd - 1/2 the damage of the last skill in the chain done(IE. Fast Blade does 78 -> Red Lotus does 35. Transfusion will do somewhere in the range of 10-18).

When you do an element that the enemy is WEAK against.(IE. Distortion(ICE/WATER element) vs. Flys). The damage will do somewhere in the range of 1/2 to 2/3rd of the ws done.(IE. Double Thrust for 57 -> Fast blade 130. Distortion damage would be in the range of 65->90ish)