Post patch playing.

[Nodachi]

Well the dreaded patch known to "nerf" thief has landed. Honestly i suppoe i can't speak for all the things it effects as my thief is only level 25 but man has the space narrowed for sneak attack. Before you could easily get away with attacking from the side and in all honesty it was hard to miss a sneak attack unless your tanks are morrons. But now, different story. I suppose it isn't hard to lign up directly behind the enemy to perform it as long as no one's in your way but it def. poses much more of a challenge.

Anyways post your problems or things you've noticed to have changed along with the patch.

Oh and yeah SEX really messed up the macros lol they better fix them quick - everyone is complaining as to how sticky they are and some even say they can't use their macros atol =\

[zatteran]

i hear all you need to do is re type your macros and theyll be fine, but i havent tried it yet. worth a go though ;)

[Deodorant]

The patch sucks.

The initial dama is easy to pull off, secondary attacker provoke, get into position, dama off paladin, paladin provoke. Foolproof.

Renkei is much, much harder. More than half the time the secondary attacker's provoke + ws doesn't turn the monster, so if I'm standing behind paladin I do crap damage.

So I've been standing beside monster for renkei and watching carefully to see if the provoke turns the mob. Problem is with the current retarded 2 second delay on macros it's all too easy to screw up something.

Maybe I suck at this, but I much prefer yokodama ~

[Ixquic]

Sounds hard, but not impossible. I guess we'll have to get used to it like this.

It would have been nice if they had strengthened mug (i.e make it not useless) in order to soften the blow though...

[John Doe III]

It will be fine, just have to tell your party or attackers that they need to get to the opposite side of you and taunt before renkei and not to taunt anytime 30 secs before hand. So, right when your ready the person your renkeing with is on the opposide of you and will taunt before WS, while your target is in front of you about to get hit with massive damage becuase he is the helpless victim in your PT who you decided to pick on. Still sounds ok to me.

[Deodorant]

Originally posted by Deodorant
More than half the time the secondary attacker's provoke + ws doesn't turn the monster

... is what I said.

It's hard. If the paladin is too efficient at keeping hate, the secondary attacker/renkei partner's provoke will not turn the monster. Well of course the paladin could skimp on the heals, shield bashes, etc, but that would mean a dangerous lack of hate that could easily send the monster flying all over. So there are 2 options:

1. Stand behind paladin, do 30 damage viper bite, and 10 dmg distortion. At least if you have blm's in party they can MB off the skillchain.
2. Stand behind secondary attacker, do 500 dmg viper, 200 dmg distortion, and blm's can MB. Monster will immediately start hitting secondary attacker, and it typically takes at least 5-10s before paladin can regain the hate, which is sometimes enough time for the secondary attacker to take a shitload of damage.

I for one would like to know how you pre-yokodama thieves got around these problems. I bet there's probably some other trick or strategy to it that I don't know of :P

[Nameless]

I wish THF's had some power to move the tanks into place (most of them stand clustered together infront of the monster, which is good for my level without trick) then bind them so we can fuidama easily ;)

Anyway, I'm going to stay THF but I'm also gonna level RNG/NIN.

[John Doe III]

I remember the good old' days when I was around level 30 and doing yoko behind our 2nd attackers or...thief XP. Starv and I used to do it behind each other and the tank would regain hate..then I would use it after him.

[Neo Nanaki]

I have just chosen to go Thief as my main job right now, and while I have researched the thief job well enough, I'm not sure what was changed in the patch beside Sneak Atk must be behind the NME.

Can someone explain how this patch effects yokodama and such and such? (and the job as a whole..)

[kanomjeeb]

Here is how i did before the yokodama was discovered.

It was pretty much like Deodorant said but my delay was /wait 1 and /wait 2

/ja sneak blahblah
/wait 1
/ja trick blahblah
/wait 2
/ws blahblah

here is how i got ready for renkei

PLD
|
mob <-- Jeeb(thf)
|
Figther

I had more than enough time just to see which way the moster turned the face to.

When skillchain started, I kept my eyes on the monster and ran real quick to whicher the monster's back was(when my turn came).. either pld or the figther.. then blew my macro..

Seriously you really have enough time to do so...

Sure.. something you will be doing sneak+trick behind the figther not PLD.... and pld wouldnt be tanking.. in this case.. just let the monster beat the figther and pld cure.. the pld will get his target back sooner or later anyway...

[Awntawn]

Basically, during the fight, THF should stand at the side like this:

Tank

Mob THF

Attacker

When you're going to use sneak + trick, you run to one side depending on which side the monster is facing. Same as renkei, there should be enough time for you to run to either side. Right after the attacker uses WS, hit ur charge macro and move (while charging, slide if you will) and hit ur WS macro right when u get behind the dama victim. Given this'll need a little bit of practice, it soon becomes like walking. This is how everyone did it before yokodama was discovered :thumbsup:

Safest strategy is wait until the monster's HP is down to 1/2 before renkei, then make it so that renkei + MB will kill the monster for sure.

[vudoodoodoo]

So much harder to use Sneak Attack now.
If the monster moves the slightest, Sneak won't work. :(
I hate it when I miss Sneak.

[Ixquic]

The range of sneak is way too low. They could have stopped people from using yokodama without reducing it so much. As previously said if the monster even moves a little you'll miss.

[Xeross]

Thanks to the new sneak, i've already added one War to my blacklist.

Well ok its not ALL because he was pissing me off, not taunting before his WS, not taunting every 30, forcing me to provoke cuz he wouldnt do SHIT when the whm is nearing death from the mob.

But the addition to the fact that I was having a REALLY hard time landing my sneak cuz the guy couldnt keep hate him worth shit, he would... at random, while he ACTUALLY has hate on him, start CIRCLING THE ENEMY!!!!?!?!!!!

God I got so pissed. This guy was level 19 with no sub and didn't know what a magicked skull was(and he was leveling in Dunes)

I wanted to slap him. Instead, when he started complaining about our low exp(which was us getting 3-4 exp chains on 60exp mobs), I just booted him out of the group, said find a different group then, and added him to my blacklist.

But when I have a good provoker in the group, like the paly who I had to replace with the war when the paly left, was one of the best tanks I've played with so far, and it made it quite easy to play my job.

edit:: i'm sure i would have blacklisted that War anyway, but the new window to hit just made it oh so much more annoying.

[Awntawn]

WAR: "Standing still is gay, I want to move around for fun"

THF: "You need to stand still or else I can't use sneak... it's screwing us over"

Some Random Guy: "God damn uberists. Don't listen to that asshole, play it the way YOU want to! It's all for fun!!! Not for hardcore!@!!#@$!!@dollaratpercentstar"

[Voodoo187]

That is pretty much what msome guy said to my cousin today when he was playing his thief he said "Please stand still so i can land Sneak Attack" the Warrior replied this dumbass remark "There is no point in Sneak attack for one they dropped the damage on it, Secondly when the damage wasnt nerfed i can still hit much harder." Ok this is a lvl 15 warrior using 1h axe and dagger, i HIGHLY doubt he does more dmg than sneak attack.

[Xeross]

Originally posted by Voodoo187
That is pretty much what msome guy said to my cousin today when he was playing his thief he said "Please stand still so i can land Sneak Attack" the Warrior replied this dumbass remark "There is no point in Sneak attack for one they dropped the damage on it, Secondly when the damage wasnt nerfed i can still hit much harder." Ok this is a lvl 15 warrior using 1h axe and dagger, i HIGHLY doubt he does more dmg than sneak attack.

I had a war say that to me, so I did Sneak + FB for 190 damage(before renkei) on a VT gobby at level 18.

He wasnt as arrogent after that. But he still had his comments since thats a 1min move + the time it takes to charge the TP.

Random comment: Distortion does mad damage on almost all the enemies in the dunes that you fight at level 18 :D

[Vesarius]

In the high end game, i see very little point in playing a thief main, after this patch. The only reasons would be money, and loot (more money)

After level 60, any attack class (drk, drg) with sub thief, can transfer all their hate from their powerful multi hit styles (penta/guillotine) to the tank anyways. And it's a hell of alot less of a hassle to boot.

Thief has absolutely pathetic regular melee damage, the only time they come close to a high level attack in damage was once a minute with sneak/trick.

Now it's such a pain in the ass to use, even when you do use it, it's probably 'not' going to be on the tank anyways, because he'll have the hate.

I have no idea why they decided to nerf this ability.

To sum up, why group a thief and make hate control complicated, when you can just group an attack with sub thief, who doesn't have to bother with all that placement crap in the first place.

other then for loot...

[GSDragoon]

I don't know why everyone is complaining. I have no problems using it now. It just takes a little more effort to be in the back. Even when WAR's don't provoke much, I still don't have much of a problem.

[Spider-Dan]

Before this patch, I never noticed how much low-level tanks f*cking move. In the past, it didn't really matter too much... I don't have trick yet, and sneak was easy to land. Now, I'd say sneak has about a 10-20 degree placement window.... if a tank is standing directly behind the mob, I can't land sneak unless I walk through him.

Retarded.

[John Doe III]

Originally posted by Awntawn
WAR: "Standing still is gay, I want to move around for fun"

THF: "You need to stand still or else I can't use sneak... it's screwing us over"

Some Random Guy: "God damn uberists. Don't listen to that asshole, play it the way YOU want to! It's all for fun!!! Not for hardcore!@!!#@$!!@dollaratpercentstar"

HAHA! Good one!

[Nameless]

Originally posted by Spider-Dan
Before this patch, I never noticed how much low-level tanks f*cking move. In the past, it didn't really matter too much... I don't have trick yet, and sneak was easy to land. Now, I'd say sneak has about a 10-20 degree placement window.... if a tank is standing directly behind the mob, I can't land sneak unless I walk through him.

Retarded.

Same, in my party today they moved so much, 60% of my sneaks failed so I ended up complaining about it on LS :p

In the high end game, i see very little point in playing a thief main, after this patch. The only reasons would be money, and loot (more money)

After level 60, any attack class (drk, drg) with sub thief, can transfer all their hate from their powerful multi hit styles (penta/guillotine) to the tank anyways. And it's a hell of alot less of a hassle to boot.

Thief has absolutely pathetic regular melee damage, the only time they come close to a high level attack in damage was once a minute with sneak/trick.

Now it's such a pain in the ass to use, even when you do use it, it's probably 'not' going to be on the tank anyways, because he'll have the hate.

I have no idea why they decided to nerf this ability.

To sum up, why group a thief and make hate control complicated, when you can just group an attack with sub thief, who doesn't have to bother with all that placement crap in the first place.

other then for loot...

Do you even have the game? If you don't, be gone.

EDIT: Just to show something, I did 70 to clippers with a normal attack. The WAR did 5 with a normal hit.
Bitch slap?

[Vesarius]

Do you even have the game? If you don't, be gone.

Level 55 thief/ninja, what's yours level 15/no sub?

70 damage with a regular non sneak attack? and the warrior did 5? Sure buddy.

Not really sure what you're trying to say here, that thieves outdamage warriors in regular melee as well as specials? or just trolling?

Either way, i'd have to say you're either delusional, or just stupid.

[Ixquic]

I haven't sat down and added up the damage (since I haven't played with many dark knights) but it seems that now without yokodama, the dark knights and thieves really end up doing about the same amount of overall damage since thieves' regular attacks are so incredibly puny. This coupled with the fact that dark knights don't need to worry about positioning or a timer to do their damage makes it seem that thieves have become totally obsolete.

SE may have never intended for a non advanced melee job to be so good though so maybe this is their way of getting people to switch to other jobs.

I hope I'm wrong so please correct me if I am.

[Xeross]

the patch doesnt change our DAMAGE output at all. All it changes is the stratagy used to pull off a Yokodama(now we use Fuidama). Same thing, different placement.

Will it be harder to transfer hate? Yah. Will it be harder to do a Fuidama then a Yokodama? Shit ya.

Will we come up with stratagys used to make our class still as useful. Of course, i mean Yokodama was never intended, and wasn't learned for a while either.

We still have lots of use, and can still do LOTS of damage.

[Ixquic]

Well, my point wasn't that the damage of sneak attack was reduced, but that since sneaks and furidamas will be rarer (thanks to the incredibly small range of sneak) that the overall damage done by thieves will be about the same as dark knights. And since dark knights don't have to worry about placement in battle and can do their strong weapon skills from anywhere, they will be much more useful.

As was previously stated many tanks don't want to play along or don't understand how sneak + trick works. This coupled with the fact that if you are not directly behind a mob (I've been at a 5% angle and had sneak fail when it turned slighty to fight a different tank after I used sneak, but before I hit it) means that thieves will be doing dramatically less damage.

This isn't the same as before yokodama was discovered since before yokodama, you could still be in a much wider area to pull off sneak.

I fear that when making parties most people are going to figure out that it's much easier to have a dark knight than to have to worry about positioning, provoke timing and having 2 dedicated tanks in order to get the most out of furidama.

I understand that yokodama wasn't intended, but SE did a crappy job of "fixing" it by overnerfing sneak attack. I think reducing the area to a 30% angle behind the monster would have fixed the problem while still allowing thieves to make the best use of their abilities. It's not like thieves really have that much going for them outside of sneak + trick and coffer hunting (which was also nerfed to an extent).

I want to be wrong on this, but already doing furidama has become annoying since now everyone has to be keenly aware of the mob's direction which most of the time is too much to ask of a random leveling party.

[ninvampire]

I tried sneak out today for the first time after the patch and my god it's nearly impossible to pull of a sneak in a party anymore. The level of attention and placement required to pull off a succesful sneak almost breaks the thief.

I hope that Square-Enix lets up a little on sneak in a future patch. Either a 45 or 60 degree angle would give us a bit more room to work with and not fall under exploitation.

[John Doe III]

Originally posted by Vesarius


Level 55 thief/ninja, what's yours level 15/no sub?

70 damage with a regular non sneak attack? and the warrior did 5? Sure buddy.

Not really sure what you're trying to say here, that thieves outdamage warriors in regular melee as well as specials? or just trolling?

Either way, i'd have to say you're either delusional, or just stupid.

You my friend are stupid! “Ê

[Xeross]

Originally posted by Ixquic
Well, my point wasn't that the damage of sneak attack was reduced, but that since sneaks and furidamas will be rarer (thanks to the incredibly small range of sneak) that the overall damage done by thieves will be about the same as dark knights. And since dark knights don't have to worry about placement in battle and can do their strong weapon skills from anywhere, they will be much more useful.

As was previously stated many tanks don't want to play along or don't understand how sneak + trick works. This coupled with the fact that if you are not directly behind a mob (I've been at a 5% angle and had sneak fail when it turned slighty to fight a different tank after I used sneak, but before I hit it) means that thieves will be doing dramatically less damage.

This isn't the same as before yokodama was discovered since before yokodama, you could still be in a much wider area to pull off sneak.

I fear that when making parties most people are going to figure out that it's much easier to have a dark knight than to have to worry about positioning, provoke timing and having 2 dedicated tanks in order to get the most out of furidama.

I understand that yokodama wasn't intended, but SE did a crappy job of "fixing" it by overnerfing sneak attack. I think reducing the area to a 30% angle behind the monster would have fixed the problem while still allowing thieves to make the best use of their abilities. It's not like thieves really have that much going for them outside of sneak + trick and coffer hunting (which was also nerfed to an extent).

I want to be wrong on this, but already doing furidama has become annoying since now everyone has to be keenly aware of the mob's direction which most of the time is too much to ask of a random leveling party.

after practicing I have found it very easy to pull off sneak, its all about timing. Instead of doing sneak right at the minute, wait an extra 10 seconds for the war to provoke, or if you can get coorperation from a sub war(or secondary provoker, wait for that). I've partied with two other thiefs who have had a horrible time tying to land sneak. In the same group I missed one or two out of my own stupidity.

Yes the window could be increased, and it would be nice if it is, but we can deal with it if we are careful and a little more patient.

[Nameless]

Originally posted by John Doe III


You my friend are stupid! “Ê

(o'_')b John Doe is genius.

Vesarius is an idiot. I believe I said clippers, I'm level 22/10 buddy.

And yes, I did do 70 to a clipper, and the WAR did 5.

Maybe your lying about your level, or your lying. You seem to have no facts about the game.

You, sir, are an idiot :thumbsup: .

EDIT: It also seems the retard has taken THF to "high end game" just a few levels before 60. Maybe he was scared he was found and and lied =O

[John Doe III]

Dont worry Nameless, he is still a "n00b" so dont take him to serious or waste your fingers typing about him.

[Tokitoki]

Vesarius please dont talk... I was a THF to level 30 and did the same amount of damage that a WAR or PLD did with a 1h sword as i used a 1h sword as well. If i were to use a dagger i might do a slight bit less and thats it.

Sneak + Trick + Viper= dead mob

Until youve played enough dont talk about high-end game or even mid-game becuase you just dont know anything...

[kanomjeeb]

Hmm.. Vesarius is lv56 thf in my LS.. O.O

I am not saying what he said is right.. just telling he is not really a noob^^

[Tokitoki]

Well then hes a damn stupid Vet:sweat:

[Neo Nanaki]

Jeez,...from the looks of it, it seems like the patch really crippled thiefs...

I've been at a 5% angle and had sneak fail

harsh.... is it really this bad?

[Jei]

Vesarius is not a newbie... he knows how to play i can back that up :P just different opinion.

To me THF will always be the great damage dealer. But anyway positioning and hate controlling will become the main issue to make the party having headache now... If the party manage it well then THF will still be a killer no matter what level they are.

[John Doe III]

I just said what I thought was true..and i'm sticking with it. Just my opinion though.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by Neo Nanaki
Jeez,...from the looks of it, it seems like the patch really crippled thiefs...

harsh.... is it really this bad?
In a word, yes.

Today, I missed about 5-10% of sneaks, even after I wait for provoke. Tank provokes, mob faces tank, I move behind mob and /attack, mob twitches slightly and I miss SA.

[Awntawn]

Um, I don't get it :sweat:

Nameless said he did 70 to a clipper WITHOUT sneak attack nor WS... and a WAR did 5... were you not the same level or what? Cuz from I see Ver is right :sweat: :sweat: :sweat:

[Nameless]

I did it with Sneak, seeing as this is a thread about how sneak attack was affected and what not, it was understood :rolleyes: .

John Doe is still genius (o'_')b

[Izual]

It took a few days of practice, but my party is getting pretty good at controlling hate now without yokodama. We basically use the same stradegy that Jeeb and Awntawn outlined, except we always put the hate on our pally instead of me:spin: I usually pull the mob and provoke it to keep it from running while we get in place. The thf then uses fuidama and pins the mob on the pally. I usually end up taking 4-5 hits before we can get the fuidama off, but we're working on getting faster. As for renkei, I haven't really had any trouble getting the mob to turn to me. We usually do it when the mob's around 60% hp, so it isn't too long after the initial fuidama. I just use last resort + weapon skill (last resort generates an unusually high amount of hate just by being activated) and then provoke before viper goes off and it almost always works. If LR isn't up I throw an absorb spell at it to add some hate.

I'd also like to add that viper bite is a godsend to mid-level parties, and as much as I hate to admit it, mid-level drks almost have to use greatsword for that power slash -> viper bite renkei. 200 PS + 500 viper + 300 renkei + 200 MB...that's 1200 damage to an IT mob in about 10 seconds. It's so much fun, it's actually worth giving up my scythe for the time being:thumbsup:

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by Nameless
I did it with Sneak, seeing as this is a thread about how sneak attack was affected and what not, it was understood :rolleyes: .

Originally posted by Nameless
EDIT: Just to show something, I did 70 to clippers with a normal attack. The WAR did 5 with a normal hit.
Bitch slap?

It also looked to me like you were trying to claim you did 70 with a normal melee hit (re: "normal attack" as opposed to "sneak attack"), and that the WAR did 5. In which case, you obviously would have been lying.

To be completely fair, if a similar level WAR was doing 5 dmg to a mob, you realize that (for 55 seconds every minute) you would be doing about 2-3, right?

Or had the WAR never seen Sneak Attack before?

[GSDragoon]

Is what I di was ask nicely that all the meele fighters with provoke stay on 1 side. This way I had plently of room to move to the back on the enemy. Also, if they are on the same side, provoke doesn't mess me up by changing the enemies direction too much.

[John Doe III]

Originally posted by Nameless
John Doe is still genius (o'_')b


Who?!? me?!?:spin: :spin: :spin: :spin: :spin:

[DarkenedShadow]

Vesarius is ultra nooblar. He knows nothing. He is only lvl 57 because he has no life. I have him blisted ingame cuz he is so dumb ><.


Bring on da flame!!!!

[Nameless]

Originally posted by Spider-Dan




It also looked to me like you were trying to claim you did 70 with a normal melee hit (re: "normal attack" as opposed to "sneak attack"), and that the WAR did 5. In which case, you obviously would have been lying.

To be completely fair, if a similar level WAR was doing 5 dmg to a mob, you realize that (for 55 seconds every minute) you would be doing about 2-3, right?

Or had the WAR never seen Sneak Attack before?

>< oh, I thought he knew I was talking about sneak. Whatever, it was so nice of him to be an ass about it, and yes, I did do 70 with sneak and the WAR did 5. :rolleyes:

On clippers I do less than that 0-2 ;) But sometimes when the clippers are only tough I do up to 13. And if you think about it, my dagger gets 2 hits for every one of their sword hits, so I get 4 damage or 6, for there 5 swing.

And I don't understand the last part, nothing changes if he has seen sneak or not.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by Nameless
And I don't understand the last part, nothing changes if he has seen sneak or not.
If he had never seen sneak, he would be quite justified in thinking thieves do shitty damage... because without sneak, they do.

THF before lv15 is the most useless class in the game.

[evilution]

>< oh, I thought he knew I was talking about sneak. Whatever, it was so nice of him to be an ass about it, and yes, I did do 70 with sneak and the WAR did 5.


I see someone has learned about crabs DEF buff effect.

The only reason the war hit for 5 after you pulled off a 70 SA was becauase the crab threw up his DEF buff.

now can we plz get back to complaining about how much THF suck :P

[John Doe III]

I dont know what the hell you guys are talking about with Yoko, I did Yokodoma after the patch for the first time in 2 weeks (becuase of school). I got a level (from 51-52 mind you) and we fought around 70-80 beetles in one party. Yes, I became Beetleaphobic. Anyways, out of those 70-80 battles I missed Yoko less than 5 times. So, what the hell is your problem and not doing it? IT'S SIMPLE. Stop whining and tell your party to get in position and that you need to do Yokodoma on someone, if they keep moving and you are leader kick them.

[Deodorant]

After getting adjusted to the patch and new fuidama, I must say it isn't that bad of a nerf.

For one thing, parties still want a thief as much as ever. Hate placement and (whatever) -> viper for distortion & mb is still one of the more common mass damage tactics.

Once your party gets used to it, you should be able to get a rather high success chance. I partied with a rng/nin, and unless he missed his piercing arrow ws (not that often) I got fuidama on the pld every time. And even if the monster doesn't turn cos of missed ws, I still do viper for distortion skillchain for blm to mb off.

What's more tricky now is that the paladin has to have better control of hate. Too much, and the secondary attacker's ws might not turn the monster. Too little, and the monster might start running off towards the mages mid-renkei.

And finally, it's a lot harder to coordinate when you're in a group that doesn't speak your language. In parties like these ... well ... you'll just have to make do and land viper on whoever's facing the monster's back :D

[Fadedsoul]

it's really not that hard...

Hi. I'm a level 60 dragoon and I'm Vesarius's second provoker. it took us about.. 2 minutes? 3 minutes? Well it didn't take long at all to get it right. it's real quick and effective. I don't see thief as losing a thing. All SE did was put up boundarys to seperate the good thief from the sucky ones. A good thief is just as good as before.

[Nameless]

Originally posted by evilution


I see someone has learned about crabs DEF buff effect.

The only reason the war hit for 5 after you pulled off a 70 SA was becauase the crab threw up his DEF buff.

now can we plz get back to complaining about how much THF suck :P

There was no buff.

WAR was using 1 handed sword on an IT. I was using a dagger.

Dum dum dum.

[Anya]

All SE did was put up boundarys to seperate the good thief from the sucky ones. A good thief is just as good as before. [/B]

Actually, it seperates the good melee from the sucky ones. There's a lot less leeway in working around poor melee now.

[kanomjeeb]

well this may help..

"sentoukaisi ni, AAA san chouhatu sitekudasai ne...
ato de BBB san no usiro kara fuidama wo uchimasu. "

it means...

"When the fight starts, Mr. AAA please provoke the monster,
and THF will do sneak+trick from behind Mr. BBB"

usually AAA is the 2nd tank and BBB is the PLD or main tank.

and for the renkei, usually if the main tank is PLD and 2nd is not super high dmg dealor (drg using double thrust, sam using the first ws, etc), he won't get the mob off PLD after he uses his WS, that means the thf can just stay behind him and blow sneak+trick WS. Then, PLD will get his target back in a couple seconds (at least it works for me)....

but if you are with high dmg output players like ranger or drk, usually the mob will turn to him anyway so its even easier just to do sneak+trick behind pld.


enjoy the show~

[sinfox]

i'll agree that the ability of the theif isn't really the issue here... problem is that we are now totally dependant on the tanks to be effective at positioning themselves and balancing a little hate for fuidama to work..

i think i now realise why yokodama was so popular.. you could perform it regardless of the skill of the tanks..

i never made level 30 quick enough to yoko.. but trying to get the parties which i'm in to leave an opening for a fuidama is proving difficult.. and will sometimes leave me going the whole fight without even using a sneak attack; waiting for an opening which i may or may not get for fuidama..

it eventually got to the point where i'd fuidama on anyone who left themselves open for it...

i'm wondering if other, more experianced theives will only fuidama.. or will you use sneak//trick attack independantly of eachother as the situation allows?...

i think it's the tanks who now have to work harder, not the theives.. or maybe i'm just a bad theif for not having an awful lot of success with fuidama ><!

sin

[Nameless]

A static pt would be nice.

This being so you don't have to explain to every group

Me > sub tank > enemy > main tank

then

sub tank < enemy < main tank < me

I know a party that would be nice for this

THF,DRG,PLD,RNG,RDM,BRD

though I would worry about no WHM ( no bene ; ; )

[sinfox]

after explaining that diagram to a party for the 10th time and still they all clustr in front of the enemy or stay at the sides.. you do start to wonder... ; ;


sin

[Nameless]

Slap them good.

[Vesper]

@ 50, haven't had a problem post patch, seems about the same, maybe a little less damage. Pre-patch(Nerf), I would hit btwn 200-580(max was 584), post Im hitting 200-420ish. This is DW Bone Daggers.

[Nameless]

Damage wasn't changed though...

You just can't do sneak from the side.

[Vesper]

My point exactly :)