Bursting off other bursts..??

[evilution]

BOTTOM LINE: ANY ELITE GROUP, LINKSHELL, PT WILL HAVE OR WANT 2 <----- BLM's for MB'ing OFF eachother... Remember: ANY ancient spell used to MB is MORE THAN ANY SINGLE SKILL PERFORMED AND WHEN MB'd OF THE FIRST MB (becausae you can burst of another burst) the dmg is ALMOST MULTIPLIED... its a joke... If you ever make it to lvl 70 on carbuncle as a BLM, you shoudl already know wtf im talking about... if not and your deprived, msg Fistandantilus on Carbuncle... Ill Make a pt and show you


Ok, gotta make a new thread for this.. Anyone know what the hell he is refering to? MB off the first MB? Eh?

I got no clue...

[RD2hypeD]

M_agic B_urst I believe.

[evilution]

i know what MB means, i am asking what the hell is he refering to "Bursting off another BLM burst"

[MidgardPlas]

i would like to hear more about this as well. does he mean doing an intermittent burst increases the dmg of the final burst or that you can actually burst off of another burst, like a secondary skillchain of sorts?

[Stolin]

I asked a high level friedn of mine about this. He said that its true that you can MB off of other MBs just like you can MB of renkeis. Its just harder to get the timing down because different spells have different charging rates. I'm not sure but I think it has to be a different spell of the same element.- Really unsure about that though.

[Otaku~gamer]

I could be wrong but ive never even heard of bursting off another person's burst.

Only thing ive seen was 2 Blm's bursting off the same Renkei effect. I don't think its even possible to achieve what the person who posted that message is talking about. It might just be luck and the 2nd burst wasn't resisted as much causing more dmg making it seem like its multiplied.

Who knows i could be wrong.

[MidgardPlas]

somebody HAS to have firsthand knowledge about this.

i've heard several high lvl blms state that this is possible, but none of them has bothered to explain how exactly it works.

please help :(

[mIze]

Yes, you can burst off a burst. I've seen it done (well being a blm, I was doing it).

At around lvl 27 or 28 in Batallia, bursting off a Fusion effect with two blm's in the PT, I went first for about 20 damage, his burst about 2 seconds later went for 108. That's just one where I can recall the exact damages, many times with 2 blm I've seen a burst of the same element on the same renkei do this. It's always the second MB that adds a good chunk more of damage than the first one. Start doing this with spells around the 30 level like Water II and Firaga, you end up in the 200-300 damage range.


[Edit: In that example, we were using Fire. 100 is really good for a lvl 13 spell on a mob that wasn't weak to fire (gob)]

[evilution]

Well there has to be some trick to it.

Me and the other BLM in my party have tried various combinations of spells and timings and can not get anything out of the ordinary (damage wise) to happen =/

Gravitation WS effect, he bursts with Stone 2 followed by my Stone 3 hitting a sec or so later for normal Stone 3 damage.

Distortion effect with one of us casting Aeroga II and the other landing Tornado after it for normal burst damage..

same with Water 2, Water 3 burst..

edit: and obviously we both have tried bursting the same spells in a chain but that gives no more damage than a normal burst either.

[Macht]

So far I haven't seen MB's damage multiply at all when you chain them. Basically all you are doing is adding the MB as the space filler for the next attack. Problem is for the over all bursts you can do seems to be timed going from the first weaponskill used.

That's what I think he's refering too, actually the next continued burst on the second and if the party has enough to do third skillchain can still be done but you can't use the very powerfull spells for their timing is just to long for it to succeed.

Really to me it isn't bursting off of another burst because you still need the skillchain to start it, so really it's more just the bursts acting as a sustaining spell for the attack doing something sort of like

Renkei > MB > MB > Renkei > MB

Were each MB gives you an extra 2 seconds to preform the next attack which is filled with another MB or a weaponskill to perform a Renkei.

As far as damage goes the only key thing I've seen that determines the MB's damage amount is the amount of tp extra used in a weaponskill as well as day, environment, and the monsters general weakness to the attack. If the monster is weak to it the MB will always do a great deal more, and if the monster is not weak to it MB can at times do a terrible 4 - 8 damage.

[wrightson]

same here. all i have been able to do is 2 burst off of one skillchain but if it can be done id sure like to kno whow

[David_h125]

There is NO burst -> burst in FF11.

However,

You can burst off a renkei with multiple bursts.

Fusion -> 3 black mages cast 3 Fire spells, you will get 3 magic bursts.

[Macht]

No, I did not mean the same person doing 2 bursts in a row on the same skillchain. What I ment is like 3 BLM's bursting off of 1 renkei but they are seperated by almost 2 seconds each. It looks like the MB's were done off of eachother, but now that I think about it as far as I could tell when doing it it's just that you have this 4 - 5 second window to finish the spell to get the MB unless the next person in the skillchain goes to fast then your window shrinks..

EDIT:

The only way to truely tell if MB's can burst off of eachother is to have 3 or more BLM's and have them go in order on their bursts timing it so the next BLM's spell hits at the propriate time for such a thing to happen. If each one was able to burst of the other, then not only would you get a message for it but it should be possible for a weaponskill to continue of the burst again and still get a renkei/skillchain.

So if this does work then 4 BLM's should be able to burst off of eachother which means the last BLM would of done a MB almost 8 seconds after the renkei/skillchain. That would be indisputable proof really.

[Zenyx]

This doesn't work, I've been in groups with 3 blms or a blm and 2 rdm's. When one of you needs to cure somebody it can through your timing off or various other things, so you get something like:

Effect: Fusion
Zenjyn Casts Fire II
Magic Burst !
Shigetake Casts Fire
Magic Burst !
Emblem Casts Fire
No MB

I've seen that quite a few times, where a spell will get cast immediately after another and not burst because the timer ran out.

[Otaku~gamer]

Originally posted by Macht

At around lvl 27 or 28 in Batallia, bursting off a Fusion effect with two blm's in the PT, I went first for about 20 damage, his burst about 2 seconds later went for 108. That's just one where I can recall the exact damages, many times with 2 blm I've seen a burst of the same element on the same renkei do this. It's always the second MB that adds a good chunk more of damage than the first one. Start doing this with spells around the 30 level like Water II and Firaga, you end up in the 200-300 damage range.

Ok that right there explained it all.. Both Blm's bursted off the same renkei.

THe 2nd blm did not burst of a burst cause its not possible. The 2nd blm hit harder cause the monster just so happened to not resist the magic as much as the first.

[Psyhcomidget]

Im already going to disregard those claims because 100 damage at level 13 is absurd. Heck at level 50 I cant get 100 damage on a level 1 spell.

A lot of BLM tend to overinflate their numbers when talking to others about damage. The excitement gets to their heads sometimes.


There is no such thing as bursting off each other's bursts. Those are just multiple people bursting off the same skillchain. With skill, you CAN prime a long cast time spell for a burst and then cast a level 1 spell for a secondary burst. The best I've done is burst a Water 3 AND Blizzard 1 on the same distortion. (and for the person saying they did aeroga 2 and tornado on distortion.... distortion is a water/ice skillchain) If you cast the long charging spell early enough, it releases just at the right time and you actually have time to toss in another level 1 spell. Ive yet to burst a secondary lvl 2 spell, however, and even with RDM sub for fastcast.

[Icemage]

There is no chain effect from multiple magic bursts off the same renkei.

Just as an example, I spent several hours tonight in the Crawler's Nest killing Worker Crawlers. RDM, WHM/BLM, WHM/BLM bursting with Blizzard on Distortion (Crawlers are weak to Ice). Damage stayed capped for the two WHM/BLM at around 85-100, and the RDM (who I can only imagine wasn't skilled up at elemental) was hitting for around 100-110.

3 Magic Bursts consistently, no visible impact from having multiples other than the extra damage each one would normally inflict.


Icemage

[Ooogy]

Obviouslty the guy did not know what he was talking about. If you notice, he never showed back up to explain himself.

[mIze]

Scuse me? "Ooogy" you sure brought some real wisdom to this post.. why don't you be constructive instead of argumentative.

A lot of BLM tend to overinflate their numbers when talking to others about damage. The excitement gets to their heads sometimes.

PM, I wasn't talking about my damage. The other guy was taru and did the second Fire. And I said we were 27 or 28, not 13 :).

I'm not going to sit here and argue every BLM on the forum, I know what I saw and I reported it as such. At level 31 I can get Fire to do about 70 to mandragoras, possibly 100 in a burst because they're weak. To see it do 108 to a gob that is not weak is quite curious. Not resisting "as much" couldn't explain this, the damage was greatly more than that spell could have obtained even with an MB.

So if this does work then 4 BLM's should be able to burst off of eachother which means the last BLM would of done a MB almost 8 seconds after the renkei/skillchain. That would be indisputable proof really.

The concept I've experienced is that while bursting off of a renkei effect with the same spell, the 2nd spell got more damage than the first. I don't think it means that bursting will extend the timer any, a magic burst NEVER affects a renkei, only adds damage when timed right. So, if 2 blm cast the same spell, on the same renkei effect, the second spell to cause an MB is bursting off the first and creating a bigger multiplier, hence more damage. And I wasn't saying 2 seconds is the correct timing, that was just what happened in that particular case.

If you choose not to believe me, please spare the arguing. I'm pretty sure I could be wrong, but until I see consistently that 2 bursts do not cause the 2nd burst to be a higher multiplier/less resisted when using the same spell, I'll believe it. If you don't, ok :thumbsup:. I'm not calling anybody an idiot or a newb... or acting like I know everything, let's keep things civil :sweat:.

Once again, the only time I've seen this is:

-Bursting on the same renkei
-Using the same spell (Not two different ones of the same element)
-Second MB is a good bit higher than the first

Whenever I can find a 2 blm setup in kazham or CN, I'll try this more.

[evilution]

-Bursting on the same renkei
-Using the same spell (Not two different ones of the same element)
-Second MB is a good bit higher than the first


Doesnt happen like that =/ I've spent the last 35 levels in a group with another BLM and we always burst togetheron the same WS chain without any noticable difference in damage between our bursts.

:( Sad to say I think the persn who posted on Allakhazam was full of it.

[Zenyx]

I think you should try casting fire on a bunny just outside of windy. I think you will find that you can do more than your 100 damage on the bunny without bursting or anything.

I consistently 1 shot kill the crawlers around windy with fire, it does about 110 damage every time for me.

So imo you should easily be able to hit 100+ damage on a magic burst with fire, without anything special going on.

Why don't you try this, have the first person who is going to be casting their spell use elemental seal right before, and the 2nd person not use elemental seal. If you both have the same int/lvl/elemental skill, the 2nd person's damage will not surpass the first person's.

[mIze]

Originally posted by Zenyx
I think you should try casting fire on a bunny just outside of windy. I think you will find that you can do more than your 100 damage on the bunny without bursting or anything.

I consistently 1 shot kill the crawlers around windy with fire, it does about 110 damage every time for me.

So imo you should easily be able to hit 100+ damage on a magic burst with fire, without anything special going on.

You're forgetting that a bunny outside of a city is a lvl 1-3 mob, not a 28-32 (roughly) like a gob in Batallia. Your int greatly over-rides that bunny's resistance to fire. You can't simply think of damage in such linear terms, like "My fire does 100 to everything".

Int is black magic attack power, and resistance to black/elemental magic. All mobs have stats just like players, and in the cases you're talking about, all those lowbie mobs have a slim int stat compared to yours at level 44. Your spells on weak mobs like that are just about never resisted. I thought a lvl 44 would know that :sweat:.

[Zenyx]

You missed my point...

My point is that by using your magic on the bunny shows you close to what the MAXIMUM you can expect to ever see (at your lvl/int) on any monster... ie if you happen to get lucky and get very little resists.

I wanted you to go cast on the bunny to show that your spell is capable of doing more damage if the resists are lower... To show that if you were lucky you could easily get the damage you are seeing on the goblins...

Apparently your reading comprehension is too low for you to get that point and you must resort to insults?

[Zenyx]

Just to make it absolutely clear...

Every single damage spell I have does MORE damage when it is being MB than it can when cast on a lvl 1 bunny without MB... so yes I do expect you to do at least the damage you do on a bunny with a regular spell when you MB on xp monsters (with elemental seal).

You do understand the whole point is that all you are seeing is spells getting more or less resisted ...ie the whole point of doing the bunny test or the elemental seal test...

My suspicion is that you don't use elemental seal with your MB's... because if you did you would notice that your MB spell damage will be extremely consistent if not exactly the same every time (per lvl/skill)

[Discordian]

When its time for a magic burst everyone casts. There is a very short window of oppertunity so you need to grab it. For instance if you move a renki from scisson to fusion you can do both fire and earth magics. I'm a rdm so fire is going to be my choice. A blm will probably use stoneII.

I have seen a crazy effect though. A blm and myself were in the late stages of quifim chaing acrophies. No renki, nothing. We both used blizzard at the same time and we had a HUGE blizzard spell. not the small human sized one. This was enormous, I don't know if it was a magic to magic burst because of timing or what but it could be what they are talking about.

[mIze]

Originally posted by Zenyx
Apparently your reading comprehension is too low for you to get that point and you must resort to insults?

And, obviously you don't understand that your spells do that maximum to a bunny because of the great INT difference. A mob higher in level than you would have a much shorter gap in INT and therefore you would almost never see that maximum unless it was weak to the element you were casting. Seal only lowers the amount of damage that is resisted which has nothing to do with int vs. int (i.e. Burn). Seal's effect is dependant on that mob's weakness and resistance to certain elements, not INT.

To show that if you were lucky you could easily get the damage you are seeing on the goblins

Go to a level 60-65 area and cast your biggest nuke, hell cast according to a weakness even, and watch how LITTLE it does because your INT is so low for those level mobs. Once again, a 44 suprisingly doesn't know much about their own class.

My suspicion is that you don't use elemental seal with your MB's

Heh I love this, obviously you've never been in a PT with 2-3 chains every two or three mobs? I use my seal to sleep if the puller gets a train on accident, not for a little bit more damage on an MB (where we have tons of bursts in 10 minutes). If you don't have stupid parties, then your renkeis are being formed to coordinate with the mob's weakness to accomodate your MB, so seal isn't going to help much when the spell is barely being resisted anyway. Here want an example?

Firaga on Fusion to a Yhoator Mandragora: 239
Sealed Firaga: 239-241

That's worth using over something that could save my party like Sleep or Sleepga right? :rolleyes:

You're funny "Zenyx", and I'm glad you're not on Fairy, there's enough stupid there already to fill a couple servers.

[Icemage]

I'll back mIze up on this, Elemental Seal does little to nothing to affect the max damage on a properly constructed renkei + MB. Sure, it will make it deal more consistent damage, since even with an elemental weakness monsters will get lucky sometimes, but not enough to make it worth using.


Icemage

[stealthbig]

I've experience somethign similiar to that, throughout my 20's in Qufim, I realized my magic was hardly ever resisted if It was cast right after another BLM's magic. I don't remember what magic it was, I just remember seeing the 2nd spells damage do more. I didn't think anythign of it until I read this thread, and this may just be what they are talking about.

I don't know if the blizzard spell graphic changed it all, I usually watch the logs, not the fight.

[Discordian]

My big use for elemental seal is drain. It makes a huge difference popping through any dark resistane they make have. Drain does some nice damage sometimes for that MP cost involved, however now that I have stone II it will be staking backseat.