ninja question and opinion with something that happen in game

[Mantronic]

ok here is the situation 17-19 in the dunes.

i was in a party with 2 ninja's one with sub of monk the other with sub of theif, neither with blink. I left that party cause honestly the ninjas werent worth having. then i begin to start up my own party i get 2 thfs 2 blms 1 whm, the 2 thfs have provoke but we needed a tank. The nin/thf from the previous party begins to /tell me to let him join. I answer No, thank you. you do not have provoke i have no use for a tank that cant tank that is the reason i left your previous party. He proceeded to tell me that he did plenty of damage to keep agro and that he was doing ninjitsu to help the blms out. I told him i dont have a need for a debuffing ninja that can not tank, again. he got upset started calling me a liar and stupid ect ect but he continued to bother me for a few minutes so i black listed him. so that is the senerio.


if you where setting up a party and there was ninja/thf ninja/mnk and you had 5 people in your current party and needed a tank would you pick a ninja that cant tank?

[Maxim]

Hehehe, no way. From levels 17 to 19 you'll be fighting Pugils, and those guys can hit pretty hard every now and then. Ninjas don't do a lot of damage either (when they melee) so there's no way they can keep hate. Their level Ichi ninjutsu barely scratches the monster so no hate in that either.

Even if that NIN/THF subbed WAR he still wouldn't be able to tank anyway because without Blink Ninjas take a ton of damage.

[Mantronic]

thank you max, made me feel better about my dission.

[hocuspocus]

ninja hater :)

[gbay]

woohoo garuda nijna lover!!
and ya that was a good descision, never accept useles members ~_~, you could of used me, ive low ninja with blink :woohoo::cool:

[hocuspocus]

lol

[qweezy]

You did the right thing. Any Ninja that didn't sub a War is a leech in the party. Don't even pick them if there are 5 empty slots in your group, because any other jobs besides the BST will out do the Ninja. They don't contribute much if they aren't tanking. Many players don't know what they're getting into when they picked the Ninja class, you need to burn $$$ to use this job effectively. You have take time off to farm for cash to support your leveling, if you don't want to do this then Ninja is not the class for you.

I started blink tanking when I was lvl 20 and have never stopped doing it, now i'm lvl 50. Being ahead of most of the NA players in levels, it's impossible to group with any of them. From lvl 30 to lvl 50, I've been in mostly Japanese groups. These guys are very experienced and very efficeint, they will try to get the most out of thier playtime. I have never been picked by a Japanese group when I don't have the "Utsusemi(Blink) x 500 Tank" comment up.

With a blink Ninja all you need is a good RDM in your party, a THF, and the rest all HEAVY damage dealers. Your exp will skyrocket with non stop pulling of Incredibly Tough mobs.

[Cloak]

You guys are soo wrong. I am a NIN/THF and I have no problem getting into parties... I have Blink and I use it to pull (without getting hit) and I do enough damage with Sneak Attack to even out the hate. To add to that I connect enough criticals to keep hate... you know since a NIN/THF has more dex than a NIN/WAR... This handicap you speak of is not true. Getting into parties is not a issue.

Having provoke doesnt put you over the top...

[qweezy]

Cloak your Ninja is still low lvl, and I'm gonna assume you're grouping with NA players. Most NA players are still clueless as to what a Ninja can and cannot do. They'll pick you regardless just to fill thier party. Try getting to the 45+ range(maybe 50 now) where you can't get into groups that easily. When you're competing with others for a spot in a group, having a good or gimp setup can make a huge difference whether you get into a group or spend another 3 hours waiting.

NIN/THF is a gimp setup, there is no other to go around this. Are you telling me your NIN/THF 1-2 extra DEX is gonna crit so much more ofhen then a NIN/WAR that'll you'll pull aggro? Sneak Attack have a 1 minute refresh time, and the extra dmg it does is about the same as a critical hit, it's not even a factor. You will not pull aggro with a NIN/THF, without aggro a Ninja is about useless. Once you get to higher lvls where Pentathrust and Raging Fist starts coming in, even with Provoke I have a hard time keeping stuff off these guys ... a NIN/THF have absolutely no chance to get aggro.

[Zwillinge]

i dont see why a ninja would want to be a tank in the first place. They are strictly dd and pullers. They can hold thier own like samurai when the aggros get to them, but a pal is a must.

There is no harm in experimenting though. I cannot stand pple who act like trying something new is soooo stupid. I plan on experimenting with a nin/mnk 'cause of martial art plus (using claws of course) and (once at lvl 60 mn, 30 sub) I can pull off some random kicks.

But not being put into a party isn't something to be freak out about. I always try to form my own. After a while i give up and just beg. But i say those who turn me down are just missing the fun and only care to see thier character at lvl 70 (oops 75 now) as quickly as they can.

I always invite ninjas and samurais, with a blk and wht mg and all rest samurais and nin. we go long ways. Our sam./ war. takes the dmg and then we have a voke chain to nin/war and then heal. (sam by then is stocked with tp). There is a lot of dwn time but what else do you want? Im happy as long as hour party is secure and nice to one and another.

we all know there are plenty of pals out there, no need for ninjas to tank. But i think its more important for you to enjoy your character rather then have others think you are of anyuse.

I am a N. A. player aswell, and as the rest, i dont like being stereotyped as a dumba$$ cause i had the game for a year less than the rest.

Who cares if someone thinks your useless, they didnt see you get this far, so they dont know what you can do.

Oh yes though..I wouldn't want a tank unless he had provoke. whether he can hold aggros or not, its just too risky. But that doesn't mean I'll tell everyone that in order to be a tank you need voke, just that id like to have a tank with it.

[Ljarin]

Originally posted by qweezy

NIN/THF is a gimp setup, there is no other to go around this. Are you telling me your NIN/THF 1-2 extra DEX is gonna crit so much more ofhen then a NIN/WAR that'll you'll pull aggro? Sneak Attack have a 1 minute refresh time, and the extra dmg it does is about the same as a critical hit, it's not even a factor. You will not pull aggro with a NIN/THF, without aggro a Ninja is about useless. Once you get to higher lvls where Pentathrust and Raging Fist starts coming in, even with Provoke I have a hard time keeping stuff off these guys ... a NIN/THF have absolutely no chance to get aggro.

At lv 4x with my Nin/Thf I quite often get aggro from our pld/war, nin/war and mnk/war, that's with the pld provoking every 30 sec and healing himself to try and keep aggro.

I'm the puller for our pt, I do a damn good job of it (not my words) and blink stops me taking hits if it even gets that close to me before I get whatever back to the rest of my pt so they can provoke it.

I do more than enough dmg to get aggro with or without sneak attack, so far I seem to miss a lot less than everyone else and with blink have no problems tanking for the times I have to when they can't get the mobs off me (and yes that does happen) And with thief sub we get my treasure hunter passive giving us more drops..and they love me for it.

Anyway, I don't want to sub warrior. I don't want to be a main tank that isn't what I made a ninja for. And you don't need 3+ main tanks in a group after you have your main tank whatever class combo they will be any other melee classes are there for dmg alone and the odd provoke. Not EVERY melee class MUST have provoke.

[ssgoku3_99]

i am a thf/nin and i get invited to a lot of japanese groups. lately i have been grouping with the same jp players b/c of that one time that i was in thier group i knew how to skillchain and what not. my group is this pld/war, nin/war, thf/nin, blm, whm, rdm. the other person only provokes if we pull more than one so that he can keep the hate off mages. we really dont have down time. only when we pull more than one at a time, other than that its constant pulls. i say u make your character how you want to, and as long as you know how to play it someone will recognize you and will invite you to play more often. :)

[Iago]

I've been having some dilemmas with the whole perceived focus of the ninja job myself... it's nice to see some people espousing some other styles. I do suspect that the current method of using Blink is outside the developer's original intentions.. I wouldn't be surprised to see it get nerfed in some way; hopefully they would counterbalance that with something useful.

Search some of the high-level players sometime.. you'll see quite a few odd combinations here and there. Also important to bear in mind that some of these combinations take some levels to come to fruition.. I can see NIN/THF working fine, but I would probably not set THF as subjob until Sneak Attack would be usable. When soloing 5th level, I did half as a NIN/THF and the other half as NIN/WAR.. suffice to say the second half went about five times faster!

[Mantronic]

for the people playing nin/thf as a puller is switch it to thf/nin if you want to pull and still have the ninja abilities thf/nin is 10x better combination treasurehunter 2 yokomoda actually now fudimoda.

and for those that are confused ninja is a tank best tank in the game if used correctly paladin is #2, in all honesty if they are taking you as a puller nin/thf you are actually hurting the party because a thief/ninja will do the same thing more efficently and the drops are way better. play what you like when you have to beg to get into a party it should make you think or if they are picking you to pull is because they cant find a thf there lvl. with the changed to yokomoda you need 1 pure tank and one backup tank

[one true zog]

by the time he gets to that high level, he should have enough friends who know how he plays and will take him regardless.

This game isn't all about cold, hard stats..there's also the social aspect which you cleary fail to see.


My goal is to be nin/thf..and to all the bleeding pussies that moan that I'm not tanking, they can pony up the gil for my blink bag supply. :thumbsup:

[Mantronic]

1 question do you pony up to buy the whm spells? do you pony up to buy the food needed for a good party for others in your group? Would you pony up for a Rangers bullets and arrows? Asking others to pony up for blink is silly. blink is makes a ninja a great tank with out that your just a sub par thf, once people realize that thf gets treasurehunter2 and other attributes they will pick a thf/nin over a nin/thf.

pony up and buy your white yagu drink 1,200 per bottle last 3 minutes

[one true zog]

I've bought spells several times for my LS WHMs, and lent out food to buds in a pt if they're out. Money isn't a problem for me, but I refuse to spend my hard-earned money on people I might not ever group with again. Sorry, my time /= your fun asshat.

Point is, all you see a ninja as is a blink tossing robot, why don't you stop crying and keep healing White Mage

[Mantronic]

first, your the one that brought up the pony up for blink.
second, ninja is a blink whore job and thats how many people see it, just like saying ranger is a bullet arrow whoring job.
third, your decisions to do things inside a party of friends and LS is nice but you never know what friends you will make by doing that in all your parties, i personally go all out for any group i join food drinks i am even synthing meat kabobs for people you know why cause the game is fun when nobodies is dying and everyone is gaining good exp.
fourth, theres no need to be rude, sorry for me being sarcastic in my previous post but the comment to pony up for powder got to me.


enjoy your play time you obviously do use blink in parties with friends and thats better than most of the ninjas i have seen.

ninja with out blink is like a summoner with carbuncle only or ranger with no range weapon or whitemage without cures. yes i can be done but not very effective.

[one true zog]

yeah, I did...is my answer not good enough? I don't do charity acts for strangers..especially if I have to waste 10-15k just for a pick-up.

ninja /= blink whore...it what lazy players have decided ninjas must be. I'd take a good paladin over ninja, plus it's cheaper too. Yeah, I'm cheap, sue me.

[Koy]

ur just as bad as a rng without arrows or bullets.

ninja = blink
blink = monster missing
monster missing = no damage
no damage = less cures
less cures = more mp
more mp and hp = faster chains
faster chains = more exp

no blink = nin taking way too much damage and dying
dying = exp lost

i could do the same for rng but this is nin board. but maybe in time you will see that a nin is a blink tank, they are expensive but they rule

and if u make a PT at 40+ (i think 44+) get a nin and smn with titan

blink2 + stoneskin = awesome :thumbsup:

[Keji]

GaH! All the stuff i wrote in here didnt show up and im too lazy to type it again lol


btw guys cant u get it through your heads??? THIS PERSON DOESNT WANT TO TANK! DOESNT WANT TO BLOW MONEY ON BLINK SO HE/SHE CAN TANK! ok ...get it?

[Cloak]

Originally posted by Zwillinge
i dont see why a ninja would want to be a tank in the first place. They are strictly dd and pullers. They can hold thier own like samurai when the aggros get to them, but a pal is a must.


Originally posted by Ljarin


At lv 4x with my Nin/Thf I quite often get aggro from our pld/war, nin/war and mnk/war, that's with the pld provoking every 30 sec and healing himself to try and keep aggro.

I do more than enough dmg to get aggro with or without sneak attack, so far I seem to miss a lot less than everyone else and with blink have no problems tanking for the times I have to when they can't get the mobs off me (and yes that does happen)

Originally posted by Iago
Also important to bear in mind that some of these combinations take some levels to come to fruition.. I can see NIN/THF working fine, but I would probably not set THF as subjob until Sneak Attack would be usable.

Originally posted by one true zog
by the time he gets to that high level, he should have enough friends who know how he plays and will take him regardless.

This game isn't all about cold, hard stats..there's also the social aspect which you cleary fail to see.

[Koy]

Remember you are not the first people to have these jobs. Combinations have already been tested. Some work better than others. nin/thf may work ok, but nin/war is way better

[Ljarin]

Nin/war might be 'way' better *IF* you are going to be a main thank. *IF* you aren't going to be main tank (ie my group of friends already has set people that like doing the role etc and are pld/war/whatever) then nin/thf is just as as good.

People seem pre-occupied with assuming that EVERY single ninja ever created was made to be a main tank, well that just isn't true. Not EVERY single melee class ever created was made to be a main tank, the whole point of having such a diversity of class combinations is so there is some flexibility and not every single player ends up playing the exact same race/job combo doing the exact same thing.

Imagine a group with say..4 melee 1 whm and 1 blm with all 4 melee trying to be main tank. Pretty retarded no? well that's the impression a lot of people give suggesting (and/or insisting) that every nin should sub war and be a blink-tank.

[Vivid]

I have one thing to say:

All you people who say ninja/thief sucks, you can go ahead and tell me that I suck right now cause that's just about what you're doing. Oh, did I fail to mention my levels and my contribution to PTs? Do I need to? No... why should I have to prove myself? The levels says it all...

[Rakhir]

I know all these combos have been tested. I think most everyone knows that. I'm a Taru NIN/RDM and enjoy it immensly. Sure I'm sterotyped by some as "teh suck" because I'm a taru who melees, but I've had very little trouble getting PTs and doing what I can to win the battles we need. And thats all that matters to me: being what I want. :p

[one true zog]

ninja = blink
blink = monster missing
monster missing = no damage
no damage = less cures
less cures = more mp
more mp and hp = faster chains
faster chains = more exp

no blink = nin taking way too much damage and dying
dying = exp lost

any idiot would be able to see that by choosing nin/THF that I do not plan on tanking

here's a dollar, go buy a clue

[qweezy]

Vivid you're only lvl 58 and you're an importer? A year head start? If that is the case you're the perfect example why NIN/THF blows, you could have been lvl 70 a long time ago if you were NIN/WAR, sitting around waiting alot?. It's laughable you're still lvl 58 after so long while there are already players with the NA version hitting lvl 60 soon. I myself am stuck at lvl 55 with Genkai 2 which will probably be done this weekend then I'll be heading all the way to lvl 60. So when I'm lvl 60, does my arguement hold more merit towards yours? I hate it when people use the "I am higher lvl, therefore I know more and I'm always right.".

Ultimately it comes down to this when people are forming a PT, what can a NIN/THF contribute that others can't. What have you been contributing to your PT Vivid using 'the abilities of your job/subjob'? Please don't give me the pulling, treasure hunting, lower resist debuff, and I have mad skillz crap, because any player with a shred of clue knows those are either insignificant/or can be done by just about anyone.

TANK: Nin/War, Pal/War, War
SUPPORT: Bard, RDM, High Lvl War, SMN
HEALER: WHM, RDM
DMG: DRG, DRK, RNG, BLM for magic burst, SAM multi renkei starter, THF to a certain extent
HATE CONTROL: THF

So where does NIN/THF fit in all these? They don't. A NIN/THF is just as pathetic as BST when it comes to contributing to a party, but the BST is the uber solo king.

In the end, you don't have to take my words for it because I could care less about what class or combo you play. Actually the more people playing Nin/Thf the happier I am, because you aren't even competition if we are ever the same the lvl and both looking for a PT.

[Ljarin]

No basically it comes down to this:

Does EVERY melee class in your grp need to be main tank?

Answer: No.

Therefore not EVERY ninja needs to be nin/war because they don't ALL need to be main tank.

[Meriadoc]

Yes nin/wars are good....
Yes they make great tanks(if the player invests in blink)
Hence, people will whore the combo.
The problem with NA players is that most of them are fiercely competitive...to the point of idiocy. This is why most of them aren't open to nin/thfs and other viable but less effective job combinations.
example of a non viable job combo would be something silly like sam/blm or whatever. :P
(Not that I'm insulting anyone who wants to try sam/blm... but that is ONE combo people know won't bring much help to a party)
I've seen the weirdest job combos used to a relatively useful result.. (an elvaan blm/war... jpn player...)
I agree completely that lesser job combos like this will not be of any use in BCNMs or things like that, but when it comes to regular XP, I try to give people a chance to prove their job combo...

Finally... if you think of the description of a ninja, and watch anime and see ninjas, play other games and see ninjas.. Ever see a ninja be a main punching bag? Most likely not..
Nin/thf seems appealing because it combines two jobs that are made for agility and speed..
Nin/mnk using grapple sounds like a very neat idea to me... lots of HP.. counter... kick eventually, and even chakra...(no chi strike sadly.. oh well)

Point being: Quit being so damn narrow minded about other people's job choices, and let them face the difficulties of finding parties on their own, and work on discussing valid points for both sides instead of just sticking to "NINJA IS MADE TO TANK WITH BLINK!!!1111"

*rolls eyes*

[Cloak]

Originally posted by Meriadoc

The problem with NA players (QWEEZY) is that most of them are fiercely competitive...to the point of idiocy (QWEEZY). This is why most of them aren't open to nin/thfs and other viable but less effective job combinations.


Originally posted by qweezy
Actually the more people playing Nin/Thf the happier I am, because you aren't even competition if we are ever the same the lvl and both looking for a PT.

[Koy]

Well if you have a set PT or friends who you play with where there is another main tank then nevermind.

[one true zog]

yeah qweezy, because the whole point of the game is to level as fast as you can and then brag to everyone about it

Some of us plan to enjoy the ride there, and most likey we'll learn a lot more on the way

[Balbados]

There are things I'm willing to explain about this:

There are times when you're going to power level, times when you're going for having fun with friends and times when you're going for just do regular leveling

It's just a matter of preferances depending on situation.. NIN/WAR is a definite way for power leveling to high levels quick and efficient and also versatile with other conditions as well.. NIN/THF is definitely not an option for power level (because they just don't, as qweezy noted, really contribute that much to party without tanking with blink) but it's a fun class to try and do with friends and also works well with just regular party..

I tried playing as tanker with NIN but I do realize that a NIN has more than just those costly powders for blink to be kept constantly.. It has a slow down time of either 20 or 30 secs (much like provoke) and during that time, if your blink wears off, you will need to wait several seconds to recast it again (without being interrupted and have to take some damages).. this brought me to conclusion that you need to also invest into some equipments that increase your evasion tremendously thus making NIN class more expensive than it seems to be..

But yea.. NIN is an advanced class brought in from expansion.. it has to be really good and yet really expensive to be really effective.. Blink jutsu does makes this class an absolute tanker with WAR sub and to make the job effective, you need alot of cash and be ready to burn them for tanking purposes.. much like RNG and their hunger need for constant ammunitions..

Do remember however that people has certain things to do and not just out there power leveling.. Vivid may still at that level because he got some other important stuffs to attend rather than just power leveling.. the progress is just slower with NIN/THF but that's all depends on the ability of the player themselves..

So NIN/THF is not a bad combo.. it's a good combo but not as effective as NIN/WAR.. no point attacking people just because of these differences
:biggrin:

[Orlandio]

Nin/thf is lame. I think they only way they get groups is by having really close friends, or the group is desperate for a 6th member. I'd choose a thf, drg, drk, or blm over a nin/thf as a class that doesn't tank. Nin/thf is liked a gimped monk; at least monks hit hard. With sneak attack subbed at level 30, the best you can hope for is a natural crit, no high damage. However, thf/nin is divine.

[Ljarin]

Originally posted by Orlandio
Nin/thf is lame. I think they only way they get groups is by having really close friends, or the group is desperate for a 6th member. I'd choose a thf, drg, drk, or blm over a nin/thf as a class that doesn't tank. Nin/thf is liked a gimped monk; at least monks hit hard. With sneak attack subbed at level 30, the best you can hope for is a natural crit, no high damage. However, thf/nin is divine.


Wierd how I keep getting invited into groups (jap and english ones alike) with my nin/thf then isn't it. Hell I get invites from people I've never heard of all the time.
Funny how I was consistently for 3-4 hours getting aggro from a pld/war (provoking and healing) and a galkan mnk/war last night if nin/thf is so 'gimped' how do you explain that? To the point where some fights despite both provoking every 30 seconds the monster stayed on me the entire time, even through a renkai with a double MB by the same blm I kept aggro right through it.

But I'm a gimp right? keep on believing that, it won't make it any more true.

[Balbados]

I took the time to quote what Vivid said in his thread called "Ninjitsu List" (the sticky one)

thf/nin won't get good ninjutsu until level cap is raised to 80.
nin/thf will never have good job abilities.

those are the pros and cons

pulling job is not interesting, as a matter of fact, it can become quickly tedious.

deul wield speed increases a decent amount. im not 65 yet, so i can't say how much on the third time.

So here's the breakdown of my own conclusion about what's good with NIN/THF, NIN/WAR and THF/NIN

NIN/THF
- Able to cast high level ninjitsus to help the cause of the party
- Very good puller, in par with THF/NIN
- Good amount of DEX and AGI needed
- Not as much cost effective as NIN/WAR
- Fun to play with all of those ninjitsus and a couple of job abilities THF has to offer

NIN/WAR
- One of the most useful aspect of NIN with blink jutsu
- Very costly, still can play with high level ninjitsu spells
- Good STR for damage and has Defender for tanking purposes
- Can get very tedious because you have one of the highest responsibilty among your group: tanker and puller
- Only recommended for players that ready to burn their money
- Equipments that add Evasion = must have

THF/NIN
- Triple attack + Dual weild + daggers = Near non-stop attacks
- Gain the most of all useful THF abilities
- Halved ninjitsu levels and thus the spells are not as effective
- Among the 3 NIN combo classes, this is the most profitable class because of THF main
- The best role would be the relentless attacks, fuidama, and puller

Well those are my assumptions.. I have yet to have a high level chars like lvl 50 however I have seen alot of high level NIN and THF players in action.. Also, been reading alot of useful informations here (Thanks again Vivid! your Ninjitsu list helps alot :thumbsup: )

Pros or cons, it will be the players themeslves to decide how useful their NIN combo gonna be :cool:

[PhoR]

argueing about which job is the best.

now if all parties were the same, then i could see how an arguement could be made one way or the other (nin/thf vs nin/war).. but they're not. nin/thf has strongpoints, so does nin/war.


there's chill pills for sale on ebay, really cheap!

why argue about crap like this? leave that to the 12 year olds and just have fun!

:rolleyes:

[Onisan]

I'm not even a NIN yet so I except to be flamed/bashed/yelled at for what I'm about to say, but those are NA players for you.

I'm going NIN/DRK in the end. Why? Because I want to have FUN.
Does the word FUN ring any bells?
You wanna compete? Go play some sports.
NIN/DRK will give me an attack bonus. I don't want to be a tanking whore, nor do I want to rely on Sneak Attack to get me anywhere. So you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to get ATK+ items, and I'm going to melee, and blow all my cash on the Elemental Ninjitsu's.
I'm not looking for DRG or DRK damage in the end, but I am looking at decent damage. Like PLD damage.
and honostly, I dont really care if I hit for 100000000 damage with a single attack, I just want to enjoy my character and be able to play with friends.
Squeenix isn't stupid. They aren't going to make ninja's do mage damage. I'm sure they were designed to be secondary attackers,with thier ninjitsu and thier dual wielding, and not to tank.
I've seen people do this in every game, they find something
about a class that they could abuse, and make it the class's standard. So when people try and make thier own ideas, and play the game the way they like, they get bashed for it.
My advice to everyone, play how you want to play. not how others want you too play.

[Katsuchiyo]

I second that. Final Fantasy is suppose to be about having a good time. I am going to be a Ninja/Monk and I don't really care what you guys think about it. I'll just have to sidekick you in the chin. :biggrin:

[Vivid]

Originally posted by qweezy
Vivid you're only lvl 58 and you're an importer? A year head start? If that is the case you're the perfect example why NIN/THF blows, you could have been lvl 70 a long time ago if you were NIN/WAR, sitting around waiting alot?. It's laughable you're still lvl 58 after so long while there are already players with the NA version hitting lvl 60 soon. I myself am stuck at lvl 55 with Genkai 2 which will probably be done this weekend then I'll be heading all the way to lvl 60. So when I'm lvl 60, does my arguement hold more merit towards yours? I hate it when people use the "I am higher lvl, therefore I know more and I'm always right.".

Ultimately it comes down to this when people are forming a PT, what can a NIN/THF contribute that others can't. What have you been contributing to your PT Vivid using 'the abilities of your job/subjob'? Please don't give me the pulling, treasure hunting, lower resist debuff, and I have mad skillz crap, because any player with a shred of clue knows those are either insignificant/or can be done by just about anyone.

TANK: Nin/War, Pal/War, War
SUPPORT: Bard, RDM, High Lvl War, SMN
HEALER: WHM, RDM
DMG: DRG, DRK, RNG, BLM for magic burst, SAM multi renkei starter, THF to a certain extent
HATE CONTROL: THF

So where does NIN/THF fit in all these? They don't. A NIN/THF is just as pathetic as BST when it comes to contributing to a party, but the BST is the uber solo king.

In the end, you don't have to take my words for it because I could care less about what class or combo you play. Actually the more people playing Nin/Thf the happier I am, because you aren't even competition if we are ever the same the lvl and both looking for a PT.

Way to make yourself look dumb. First of all, do you know me? Do you know my schedule? No. Do you know what I do in the game? No. Therefore, will anyone listen to your non-sensical bullshit? No.

Point number one: I have a life outside of this game. I don't spend every waking minute going online to a fantasy world to raise an avatar up to a higher pinacle to achieve some sort of glory. No. I have homework to do, a girlfriend to appease, and personal things that rank higher than a few online joy rides. Please, at least give me the benefit of the doubt.

Point number two: Because of my life, and the lives of others in my set PT. (Oh good golly gosh, looky at that, I have a set PT.) There were times when I've been on a leveling break for up to nearly a month +. So yeah, the fact that I could've been level 70 is true... If I decided to ditch my friends. Hell, I could be level 70+ by now. So, please, realize who you're talking to before you open your mouth.

Point number three: When not /anon, my nin/thf gets an average of 5 invites every thirty minutes. And has been getting that many invites ever since the 40s. There must be SOME reason why that's so... huh?

Think before you type, you'll save yourself a lot of time in the future.

[infamous gsx]

I though games where suppose to be a challenge, when did picking the easiest route to go become the set standard, but it does seem like that in alot mmorpg these day's everyone running around with the same stuff same char doing the same thing over and over again thats not my idea of fun but whatever to each his own i personaly want to try a ninja monk with hand to hand or ninja thief with hand to hand and daggers. Haveing said that vivid do you know if ninja get the increased duel speed with knuckles or claws?

[Aldo]

Point number three: When not /anon, my nin/thf gets an average of 5 invites every thirty minutes. And has been getting that many invites ever since the 40s. There must be SOME reason why that's so... huh?
Hmm, I remember I PT'd with you in Garlaige ages ago, I complained about DRK not getting PT, you said NIN never gets them too, who to believe. But the frequency of invites I got from lv37 and up was on par with, dare I say, a bard. But um, I sub war because I don't want to lose hate and have anyone get hit.

[Lean]

Guys, it's not debatable anymore, NIN/WAR or WAR/NIN is the only way to go!^^

[Lean]

Originally posted by infamous gsx
I though games where suppose to be a challenge, when did picking the easiest route to go become the set standard, but it does seem like that in alot mmorpg these day's everyone running around with the same stuff same char doing the same thing over and over again thats not my idea of fun but whatever to each his own i personaly want to try a ninja monk with hand to hand or ninja thief with hand to hand and daggers. Haveing said that vivid do you know if ninja get the increased duel speed with knuckles or claws?

If you think NIN/WAR is the "easy route to go," you are very wrong.

[Vivid]

Originally posted by Lean
Guys, it's not debatable anymore, NIN/WAR or WAR/NIN is the only way to go!^^

-_- go home.

[kebrok]

I have a question.

If a ninja wanted to be a damage dealer instead of a tank, wouldn't this person want to sub warrior for the extra damage?

[Moo]

NIN/WAR is simply amazing. Best tanks in the game.

For my parties, I would never invite a Ninja that won't blink tank. Ninjas don't do hardly any damage. Ninja damage is laughable. They are about on par with a Paladin damage wise.... hmmm, I wonder why!


NIN/THF is pretty useless to a party. Oh, you can pull?!?! Big deal. Pretty much every single melee I've grouped with knows how to do that. Hell, I could pull if I didn't have to sit on my ass and regen MP. Oh, you say you do tons of damage?!?! Yep, you're doing almost half the damage that the DRG in your party is!

I would pick any and every Job before I would pick NIN/THF to join my party. My set party includes a WHM/BLM (me), a BLM/WHM, a BRD/WHM, a PLD/WAR, and two others that we pick up in Lower Jueno. I'm pretty sure, even if we had 5 people and needed a 6th with the only person Seeking a Party being a Ninja that doesn't Blink tank, we'd probably pass and Just go with 5 people.

If you thinking of being a Ninja and don't have tons of money to use, then do yourself (and everyone that has the misfortune of grouping with you) the favor and don't. A job combo that would be very attractive to you would be a THF/NIN or THF/WAR. Do about twice the damage of a ninja, pull just as well as a Ninja, and help with hate control. Basically, THFs actually help their party while NIN/THF is.... just.... well..... there.



But to all you idiots that insist on being a NIN/THF or NIN/RDM or something of the sort, be ready to wait with Seek Party up for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time. I leveled up my BLM with a RDM friend and pretty much started over as a WHM/BLM the same time that he got Ninja and started NIN/RDM. We both had around 5 days played at the time. The other day, as I was getting ready to do the Genkai quest, I saw him in Jueno with Seek Party up. He's level 33 while I'm nearing level 51. He has more than double the days played that I do and has a level 30 RDM and a 33 NIN to show for it. Things are starting to look up for him, though. I recently saw him in Valkurm leveling up his WAR.

You guys say that you play this game to have fun and your NIN/MNK or NIN/THF is going to be AWESOME and you don't care what anyone thinks about it. Well, my friend, my idea of fun doesn't include sitting on my ass in Lower Jueno with Seek Party up for days. But hey, at least you can work on that Fishing skill while you're wasting away with Seek Party up.

/sarcasm on
Go ahead and level up your NIN/THF. After that you can level up your SMN/BLM with only Carbuncle. Why not try an uber Ranger that attacks with an Axe and never uses a ranged weapon. Better yet, be a MNK/BLM that uses a club and do SUPER DAMAGE!!!111
/sarcasm off

[Ljarin]

Originally posted by Moo


For my parties, I would never invite a Ninja that won't blink tank. Ninjas don't do hardly any damage. Ninja damage is laughable. They are about on par with a Paladin damage wise.... hmmm, I wonder why!


NIN/THF is pretty useless to a party. Oh, you can pull?!?! Big deal. Pretty much every single melee I've grouped with knows how to do that. Hell, I could pull if I didn't have to sit on my ass and regen MP. Oh, you say you do tons of damage?!?! Yep, you're doing almost half the damage that the DRG in your party is!





If nin/thf dmg is laughable how to I manage to consistently pull hate from a drg/war mnk/war even though they are both provoking during the fight. wow from doing more dmg? funny that.

A good puller is supprisinly rare. A good puller with blink is great (not my words, from a whm). I know whm's that loathe having a non-blink puller.

I'm sure you are right 'any' melee can pull. But I personally don't like 'any' old monkey to be the puller and I know a lot of people think the same way.


If I'm only doing 'almost half' the damage of a drg in my pt how come I am consistently drawing hate (and keeping it until someone provokes) from a drg/war and mnk/war.


Might be you are just over exaggerating ever so slightly eh.


[edit] typing

[Mantronic]

Ljarin what lvl are you basing this off of?

also, mnk/war and drg/war they do damage but they dont do hate damage theres a difference, when you say you can take hate from a drk/war 30+ then i will be impressed.

[Ljarin]

I'm lvl 52 and despite people playing non ninja characters and insisting they know how much dmg a nin/xxx does and everything I'm PLAYING as one and I know they are wrong as I have been doing the oposite of what they have been saying is the case for quite a while now.

And

also, mnk/war and drg/war they do damage but they dont do hate damage theres a difference, when you say you can take hate from a drk/war 30+ then i will be impressed.



I think you are getting a bit confused?
Damage causes hate, the more you do the more hate you get. If you have a level 52 nin/thf and a 52 drg/war both just wacking away on a mob then according to the people that insist a nin/thf does about half the damage of a drg then the nin/thf will never get aggro. However, if the nin/thf is getting aggro consistantly (and holding it) then the people saying a nin/thf's damage output is so awful are obviously wrong.


Especially when even after provoking/penta thrust I can get aggro back again and hold it. You wonder why people still insist on spouting utter rubbish about class combinations they don't even play.


Note I'm talking about pure melee damage (and weaponskils) I wasn't using spells.


[edit] Don't get me wrong. Nin/war is an awsome tank. I have a warrior sub (only lvl 15 don't want to lvl it higher yet) that I use on the occasions we don't have a tank and I get asked to do it but the people I have played with know nin/thf isn't anywhere as gimped as a lot of people like to make out (especially when they haven't even played one and just like to follow the herd)

I just disagree with people that say nin should only sub warrior beacuse it's the only thing they can do. People like that need to learn to make decisions based on playing a class rather than just assuming what they have read is correct without verifying it.

[Mantronic]

ljarin,

sorry not confused just missworded my statedment.

mnk/war drg/war does alot of damage and does build hate but its not the same as a scythe doing 100+ damage per swing. the big damage does attract hate right there and then. nin/thf is not as gimped at people see it but at the same note it is not as good as thf/nin. my static party has a pld/war blm/whm and whm/blm. The nin/thfs cant do fudimoda to help hate control and from my groups nin/thf has never been hit more than once in an 8 hour exp group. I personally think nin/thf is a place holder in a party that you take only if you cant find the party memeber that you want.



lvl 40 whm lvl 30 blm lvl 20 rdm lvl 20 thf i am not as high as you but from what i have seen so far nin/thf is a good place holder.

[Lean]

Originally posted by Vivid


-_- go home.


What's with your comments, Vivid. I'm tired of them.

They are OT and offensive, and there is no room for that kind of crap in this forum.

One last thing, don't come back at me with "I'm a level 50+ NIN"
because I don't give a damn.

Don't say I started this...because I have read MANY of your posts and you argue that you're trying to help us....but it seems your ego trips to me.

[kebrok]

So what does a ninja/thief get over a ninja/warrior?

I hear that subbing warrior will give a lot more damage then thief due to warrior having berserk and double attack. I also hear that sneak attack is not near as powerfull as a main thief.

[Vivid]

You say nin/war is the ONLY way to go. All I said was go home. At least use something to back up your reasoning because, frankly, nin/war is not the ONLY way to go. No, Im not gonna go pull the high level stuff out of my ass once again, but yes, I am gonna go ahead and say that nin/thf gets just as many invites as a nin/war would.

The only reason an NA nin/thf wouldn't get as much invites as a JP nin/thf would is because JPs know the potential of a nin/thf more than any NA could comprehend, they've spent countless hours more than anyone here playing this game. The reason why I get tons of invites for nin/thf is because of rank, and rank is only because I've imported this game.

Everyone who says nin/thf sucks needs to honestly step out of the box and realize that ninjas are NOT just blink whores. Yeah, they are damn awesome at tanking, but it's not neccesary.

But whatever, you may go about on your dandy little way in the safety of your box.

(btw, if you could explain to me what "OT" means, I honestly do not know)

[Lean]

Well, if you could kindly enlighten me, Vivid, I would be glad to hear you out. I just don't see why a NIN/THF would be more effective than a THF/WAR, and is the role of a NIN/THF to be a support attacker even when Sneak and Trick don't do as much? I'm not being sarcastic, I really would like to know...

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm beginning to think that NINs will be unwanted in PvP: we aren't the damage dealers, RDMs have our debuffs, and PLDs can tank more than one attacker better than we can...so...

I look forward to your reply, Vivid.

[qweezy]

Originally posted by Vivid
All you people who say ninja/thief sucks, you can go ahead and tell me that I suck right now cause that's just about what you're doing. Oh, did I fail to mention my levels and my contribution to PTs? Do I need to? No... why should I have to prove myself? The levels says it all...

Vivid you're an idiot. You're the one that came in here showing off your almighty level(lol). You got flamed for being a low level importer noob, then come your RL bullshit story LOL that nobody wants to hear about. Now that there are many high lvl Ninjas here, you get all pissy and cry like a little girl when someone have a different opinion then yours. The bottom line is, you don't know much more about the Ninja class then the rest of us, not anymore, stop acting like you know it all and only your opinion counts.

So many new Ninjas cried for help with the blink quest during the first month of the game, you knew how to do it, but you kept it secret until Maxim came along and helped us out. You're a selfish bastard that deserves no respect.

If anyone wanna know how stupid this guy is, go search his post history. There are post where he said Nin/War is the only way to go, then a week later he said Nin/Thf rules. Vivid do us a favor and shut up, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Read this thread, page 3, it's less then 2 weeks old: http://ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=255285#post255285

Take your bullshit elsewhere. Have a nice day.

[Vivid]

I never said nin/thf's rule. Nor did I say nin/war is the ONLY way to go. Look carefully.

What I have said in the past, and will continue to say is this:

nin/war's will for sure get the quicker PT invites and are the preferable choice among PT leaders. HOWEVER, nin/thf's are also widely accepted among the populous. nin/thf's don't get as much invites as nin/war, but they still get a lot.

Qweezy, I don't think I want to take anything any further with you. I've come to realize that flame wars are really just not worth time any more.

Oh, Lean. I'll tell ya how nin/thf's are decent invites.
Sorry if the posts seemed aggressive before, it just seemed like your mind was closed to anything else other than a blink whore.
nin/thf's, with the proper equipment, are one of the speedier attackers around. Not doing much damage is countered by the ability to -almost- constantly attack, this is thanks to the agility. with a casting of haste on a nin/thf, they are able to backup their lack of taunt with a decent amount of attacks. Make sure, however, that your nin/thf (or A nin/thf in that case) puts majority of his/her money into the elemental/status ninjutsu, as they will also concentrate on using this magic to attack the enemy. Add in the fact that their TP gain can become unholy, and a sneak attack + weapon skill macro for renkei's (skill chains), and your nin/thf can be a decent competitor with a nin/war.

Hehe, have fun. (apparently i still know nothing about ninja which enabled me to write up a really good nin/thf guide. /sarcasm)

[Cri]

Ya know what?! my ranger/nin is SUPER GOOD AT TANKING TOO I CAN HOLD AGRO FOREVVVVVER:handsdown :handsdown :handsdown

[qweezy]

Originally posted by Vivid
Oh, Lean. I'll tell ya how nin/thf's are decent invites.
Sorry if the posts seemed aggressive before, it just seemed like your mind was closed to anything else other than a blink whore.
nin/thf's, with the proper equipment, are one of the speedier attackers around. Not doing much damage is countered by the ability to -almost- constantly attack, this is thanks to the agility. with a casting of haste on a nin/thf, they are able to backup their lack of taunt with a decent amount of attacks. Make sure, however, that your nin/thf (or A nin/thf in that case) puts majority of his/her money into the elemental/status ninjutsu, as they will also concentrate on using this magic to attack the enemy. Add in the fact that their TP gain can become unholy, and a sneak attack + weapon skill macro for renkei's (skill chains), and your nin/thf can be a decent competitor with a nin/war.

Hehe, have fun. (apparently i still know nothing about ninja which enabled me to write up a really good nin/thf guide. /sarcasm)

1) Nin/War can get the same haste.
2) Nin/Thf have about 2-3 higher agility then a Nin/War at level 70, which amounts to pretty much nothing.
3) Agility have nothing to do with attack speed.
4) If you're nuking elementals like crazy, your TP aren't going up. You swing or you nuke.
5) Berserk/Double Attack/Attack Up > nerfed Sneak/Trick Attack.

Where is this guide that you wrote? Did someone tell you it was really good, or you just said that yourself?

[Katsuchiyo]

Or how about you 2 kiss and make up? :)

[Lean]

Ok Ok I didn't post something to make a flame...

Guys, I really am open to everyone's opinions, there is no need for any hate here.

Thanks for the info, Vivid, I'll keep it in mind.

Still, none of this is enough to convince me that NINs will be of any use in PvP.

[Vivid]

Ninjas have a possibility of being useful in PvP (if it's fighting another player or another party). But, not as the most commonly used sub jobs- nin/war and nin/thf for example. The only way to become an awesome fighter is to have some backup power. ;)

(oh, and just to be clear to the general public who may think im an asshole from what qweezy's been saying. i didn't know how to do the blink quest until Maxim posted it. in fact, i STILL cannot accept the quest in Norg due to my lack of questing for Tenshoudo.)

Originally posted by qweezy


1) Nin/War can get the same haste.
2) Nin/Thf have about 2-3 higher agility then a Nin/War at level 70, which amounts to pretty much nothing.
3) Agility have nothing to do with attack speed.
4) If you're nuking elementals like crazy, your TP aren't going up. You swing or you nuke.
5) Berserk/Double Attack/Attack Up > nerfed Sneak/Trick Attack.

Where is this guide that you wrote? Did someone tell you it was really good, or you just said that yourself?

1. If you're taking this up to level 70, then a good ninja will have the shinobi earing which gives them haste+20%. Is this the same as a nin/war's haste? The added agility + the proper equipment can allow for a ninja to attack insanely fast.
2. Read number 1
3. Uh.... So it only deals with ranged attack right? :rolleyes:
4. If you time your casting properly, your character hits while casting, I've done it, and others have seen it done.
5. Thief as a subjob ALWAYS had nerfed sneak+trick attack. The thing is, the timer on these job abilities run down faster than berserk, which makes them usable more often.

Regardless of what you reply with, I don't feel like arguing about this again and again with you. If you hate nin/thf so much, then don't be one, don't talk to one, and don't go getting all pissy when someone actually comes around and says they are pretty good. It's all a matter of opinion.

[Ljarin]

1. If you're taking this up to level 70, then a good ninja will have the shinobi earing which gives them haste+20%. Is this the same as a nin/war's haste? The added agility + the proper equipment can allow for a ninja to attack insanely fast.



I read somewhere you need to do something to get the earings to work properly? as they are not an 'additional' effect but a 'latent' effect. Anyone know more specifics? (I do agree with Vivid btw just want more info)


4. If you time your casting properly, your character hits while casting, I've done it, and others have seen it done.


Easy peasy. Anyone that can't do it, or doesn't know how to (or doesn't think that it can be done) doesn't know enough about Ninja's to be argueing over what's best and what's not.



Another good post Vivid keep it up bro

[qweezy]

Originally posted by Vivid
1. If you're taking this up to level 70, then a good ninja will have the shinobi earing which gives them haste+20%. Is this the same as a nin/war's haste? The added agility + the proper equipment can allow for a ninja to attack insanely fast.
2. Read number 1
3. Uh.... So it only deals with ranged attack right? :rolleyes:
4. If you time your casting properly, your character hits while casting, I've done it, and others have seen it done.
5. Thief as a subjob ALWAYS had nerfed sneak+trick attack. The thing is, the timer on these job abilities run down faster than berserk, which makes them usable more often.

1. The Earrings are useless. It's Latent Effect, and the condition to activate that earring is that you have to be lower then 25% health. They sell for 2k on my server. Again, agility does nothing to improve attack speed. Nothing is stopping a Nin/War from getting the proper equipment as well.

3. Agility effects your Evade and Ranged Accuracy, that's it.

4. There is delay added to your swinging everytime you cast. Being a blink whore that have been casting Utsusemi for the past 2 months, I know this. Plus I have a ranger, using the bow/melee is the same concept. You cast/melee/cast/melee, while a pure fighter will melee/melee/melee/melee in the same amount of time, now tell me how are you gonna get good TP? Plus haste have no effect on casting time.

5. Um, Berserk adds 25% damage for 3 minutes, 2 minutes to reset. Sneak/Trick is 1 minute timer, 1 shot deal, deals about 2x normal damage. It's not even close after you factor in Double Attack/Attack Up.

Originally posted by Vivid
Regardless of what you reply with, I don't feel like arguing about this again and again with you. If you hate nin/thf so much, then don't be one, don't talk to one, and don't go getting all pissy when someone actually comes around and says they are pretty good. It's all a matter of opinion.

Regardless of what you reply with, I don't feel like arguing about this again and again with you. If you like nin/thf so much, then be one, talk to one, and don't go getting all pissy when someone actually comes around and says they are pretty bad. It's all a matter of opinion.

[Blcknite100]

dont ninja have an A in throwing skill and the best shurikens are like 63 damage and like 192 delay or something, that seems a pretty viable way of adding some damage and hate, but i dnt really know.

[Shinoro]

Yeah any NIN can use Shurikens and rapid fire them for incredible damage. The downside is Shurikens of all kinds are super expensive,e ven from the Tenshodo in Norg. However, if you ever try it, and have near-capped throwing, give it a shot, you can basically throw one shuriken after another. I've thrown about 3-4 shurikens in the time it takes a RNG to shoot one arrow.

[Blcknite100]

and they do good damage?

[qweezy]

They do good damage if the Shurikens connects. Without the 3x Ranged Accuracy Bonus that rangers get and the equipment geared towards Ranged Attack/Accuracy, you won't be hitting much at all even with capped throwing. Even high lvl rangers are complaining about accuracy problem sometimes, a Ninja without those accuracy bonuses won't do very well with ranged weapons.

If the Ranger is using his best....it will be the Cannonshell, 120 damage from ammo alone o.0.

[Vivid]

That's not entirely true. I hit... an average of 7/10 times with a non-capped throwing skill. And I don't wear any ranged accuracy+ gear.

[Blcknite100]

I think we should get to make poison that adds effects to our shurikens, that would be cool and very ninjaly