The one and only flaw in FFXI

[Bladers]

This game is so party-oriented. Anybody thats over lvl 12 knows that to get good exp in this game you HAVE to b in a party. I really dont like that. Because some people in this game do not know wut they are doing in a party. If i could go through this game soloing til i get my Dark Knight to lvl 25 i would b happy. Because by lvl 25 most people know wut they are doing. I got to admit that I was a little harsh on the noobs in one of my other posts. But this post shows the real cause of the problem.

[ruffrydasean]

yea that somewhat contributes to the problem i guess...

[EpsilonPhoenix]

Hell.

I'm tired of seeing games that you can solo practically the whole time.

[Aacra]

I somewhat agree, although you can only learn to function in a party being in a party.

I am a WHM and I consider myself a good one (I can give refrences if I must;) ) I have partied with warriors/other mages who dont even use Macros!!
I've also partied with those arrogant a$$ holes who think they know what they are doing and want to make sure everybody else does too. These people generally are worse than the noobs because they take too much time yelling (in one situation it was a WAR who got a BLM killed because he was too busy shouting at a thief for being slow on the attack rather than provoking)
People need PT experience (litteral exp, not game pts) in order to be good, so instead of complaining we need to be compassionate. Everyone wants to get better, so rather than being a jerk and yelling at a n00b telling them how to do somthing better will get you better results.

[Cometgreen]

I agree. Partying is pretty much essential, especially when you wanna do the real fun stuff (take on dragons and demons, etc). I'm not saying you should be able to solo throughout the game, but the game pretty much rules out any role playing of the loner character. You literally have to party to get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time.

Cometgreen

[Arctyc]

Teach the n00bs their essential skills. Give them tips, let them know what they're doing wrong, and ever more importantly, what they're doing right.

I've heard the loner argument, and it only holds water for so long. Ultimately, the goal of most loners is in fact a social one -- gain status and admiration through impressive accomplishments, presumably without the help of others.

In fact, the potential social element that's often missed out is why I suggest everybody, at least once, forms up and dungeon crawls with an 18 person Alliance. It's really fun!

[EpsilonPhoenix]

Yeah. Once I get my copy of FFXI and after I become super-powerful, I'm going to devote my character's powers and time to helping out the younger ones.


Or as someone else called it in here, being a "Guardian Angel" You know. Watching over new players, helping them in desperate times.

That's sorta what makes MMORPGs fun. ^_^

[Aacra]

I agree EpsilonPhoenix, I'm a WHM cuz' I think its alot funner helping people that being tough.

[Bishop]

Originally posted by Aacra
I agree EpsilonPhoenix, I'm a WHM cuz' I think its alot funner helping people that being tough.

I actually find it more fun to be the damage dealer. About 2 days ago, I was in this party and we were kicking ass at 3k exp an hour. I kinda felt sorry for the whm and the rdm sitting in the back healing all of us. They really didn't get any action other than, cure 1, cure 2, rest, cure 1, cure 2, rest. In fact, they didn't talk during the whole party other than their macros.

[Maverick]

Maybe they were Japanese? ^^;

[Bishop]

No, the whole party was japanese except me and this one other guy that spoke more japanese than I did. They actually accepted me quite well because I started the party and a couple of them had "Japanese Only" comments. I'm thinking of putting "Japanese Only" in my comment too to see if I get any invites.

[Maverick]

Ahh..well you'll probably get more invites lol

[Tobold]

People are at the same time the greatest problem and the greatest advantage of MMORPG. If I wanted to solo, I could well play any single-player RPG, for example Morrowind is very similar to MMORPG, just without the other people.

But I am playing MMORPG because there are other people. Yes, sometimes you get stuck in the pickup group from hell, or meet incredible jerks. But on the other side you may well make friends, have nice chats, or have great fun in a good group.

And a good group is more often than not depending on a good leader. Somebody who sets up the skill chains. Who firmly but politely tells the white mage to use Cure instead of Banish. And who points out to the Warrior that provoking would be a good idea. And if you find yourself in a group without such a leader, it is YOU who has to play that role.

[Halorin]

I wish you could have a party of 3 and be able to get some good experience. The whole party of 6 being required idea is kind of annoying because I spend a lot of time trying to find six members, members that fit into cookie-cutter roles. Oh well. What's complaining going to do. This whole game is about jamming yourself into set party roles and running dry quests like it's a chore.

[Reilly311]

the only thing I hate about this game is it doesnt auto stack items

[infamous gsx]

Maybe it's just me but this is a final fantasy game and never has there been a ff game where you could solo anywhere but maybe on certain quest and I think thats covered via certain quests. But I always wanted to play and ff game where the other chars could be used with another person so I don't think it will bother me to much ,still waiting for ps2 v.

Just my 2cents.

[zywack]

Well, the problem is not the forced grouping per say; it's that at "higher" levels, you have to devote a longer chunk of time to get anywhere.

During the week for example, I have at most a few hours most night. It's more than enough to go gil farming, do quests and so on, I admit.

It is enough to get a decent and strong party ready and all set at the leveling spot. It isn't enough to have any real time to enjoy the party however. So I can basically do everything but group and gain levels... But gaining levels is important if you wish to be able to do something different. My time during weekends is very variable, so even getting groups and have time for gaining levels is hard.

This week I've been playing around with a friend, running around the canyon, joking, killing easy things by us two. That I have time for, and if it was possible to get anywhere without having full 6 people groups, I believe I would enjoy it far more. Yes, it gives me lot of chatting time, relatively lots of money (bought Utsusemi as a level 13 ninja on Monday), but I can't get anywhere because I don't have tons of contiguous time.

Maybe I should just go beast master...

[Ryoki]

Originally posted by Arctyc
Teach the n00bs their essential skills. Give them tips, let them know what they're doing wrong, and ever more importantly, what they're doing right.

I agree 100%. I spent the entire day yesterday helping noobs. Even the ones with really stupid questions like what is the AH and how to use it. I think rather than making fun of noobs and yelling at them, we should embrace them and help them along.

[Apoc]

Just wondering, what do you guys consider GOOD exp to be in a party, say per hour?

[Thark601]

all depends on your lvl and where your lvling at...
you'll know it's a good party if your chaining vt's or it's and not having much downtime between chains

cut out the crap like large lvl differences and if everyone knows what there doing and you have a good variation of jobs then you'll do fine

[Cymmina]

The one and only flaw (not including bugs)? I think not... I could think of several flaws. But, since this thread is about partying...

Maybe I have an advantage because I do have a partner that has leveled with me consistantly throughout both our character's lives, it makes it one person I can count on to not be a complete screw up. Yeah, the dunes suck right now. Everyone that got FF for Christmas is there, and it's not hard to pick them out, since they don't have any subjobs. So, you end up with sketchy groups at best, and its depressing when you're leveling at the same rate you did back when you were a newbie.

I spent 3 hours today searching the entire server sending tells to people that had either advanced jobs or subjobs and said, "this is where we're going, this is what time we're meeting, you want to come?" I did this while I was whacking pygmois in the canyons for cotton. I asked my friends list if they had any subjobs that were our level. We ended up with a 6 person group for Korroloka (where few people even know about), racking up 150-350 exp. When my partner and I went in, we had *just* hit 14. When we left, we were about 1k away from 17. We even took one newbie warrior with us that had no sub and we did awesome.

The key is to look for people either doing an advanced job or people who have a fully leveled subjob (14/7, 20/10, etc.).

[Apoc]

all depends on your lvl and where your lvling at...
you'll know it's a good party if your chaining vt's or it's and not having much downtime between chains

cut out the crap like large lvl differences and if everyone knows what there doing and you have a good variation of jobs then you'll do fine

You didn't answer my question -.-;

Well my decent exp per hour is like 4k+ per hour.

[711rocks]

aacra and epsilon phoenix are right, help people out, if they want to know stuff like where the auction house is, escort them there, and give them 1000 gil, 1000 gil aint bad and youd be surprised how thankful they are, maybe one day that noob will give you a raise or somethin

[sactothrash]

Originally posted by 711rocks
aacra and epsilon phoenix are right, help people out, if they want to know stuff like where the auction house is, escort them there, and give them 1000 gil, 1000 gil aint bad and youd be surprised how thankful they are, maybe one day that noob will give you a raise or somethin

I did this all around xmas (and still alot now). Any noobs I saw running around that looked lost, or that were shouting questions. I would meet up with them and answer their questions. If I liked them or I thought they would make a good addition to the game I would outfit them with equipment and give them like 500 gil. I'm not rich but they really appreciate it and I like being a good samaritan.

[LinkinFate]

Its hard to party in some servers rather than others.. I wish some people would put up that they want to party more often. I rarely see anybody ever find parties in bastok anymore.

Then again, I suppose I'm still a newb.

[Fehrih]

It'S not only th enoobs. Just had to tell a 28SAM/war how to set up a provoke macro. No kidding!!!
Problem is that some dumb people don't wanna learn. HE didn't got the macro set up after i explained it 3 times step by step.

[Lordender]

If you want to solo then play beastmaster thats why that class is there for players who want to solo, if you can hang in the grind to 30 and unlock beastmaster you'll never have to party again.

[raexn]

I can understand the main post.. solo does lack.

I learned that on my own getting my rdm to 15 in about my first month of playing. Some people just don't like approaching others for pt invites.

When i switched to war, i hit the dunes at lvl 12 and I never had a more fun time.

The best part is when you meet that one group that you're perfectly in sync with. Had one a few days back that helped me get my skull for subjobs and it was the greatest time. Now they're all on my friends list and willing to battle with me anytime any of us need help.

MMORPG's are for fun yes, and for meeting people and having a good time.

When you buy a "Massive Multiplayer Online" RPG i don't know why you'd expect to solo the whole time.

.... Also with helping noobs.. its just good practice..
A whm in my awesome pt experience was using macros with <t> instead of <p0-6>. They kept making comments on how it was hard to target us when we were far out. helped him out, and he was the happiest person alive haha.
It just goes to show you that everyone appreciates even the smallest bit of help and patience.


I give this game as many thumbs up as possible.

Now someone give me 20k gil for a braveheart Gsword :biggrin:

[pmorin]

One tiny thing to add is that I like grouping a lot, what i don't like is to do some barely descent experience you have to be in a 6 person group. If you're not in one you just can't kill anything at higher level. Unless you're bst of course :) , and thats what im gonna do when i don't feel like grouping. Well ill thechniqly(sp?) group since ill play bst with Zywack :p :thumbsup: .

But the thing i hate most is not the person who don't know how to do a provoke macro, or a whm that wait for a player to be in the red to cure, it's the people who boss other people around and yell at newbie, but are doing worse then everybody. Or the person that you try to explain something to him, but as much as you try they don't care and don't even try to do it properly. As long as somebody try, i don't mind explaining something for 20 minutes, that is if he tries and in the end succed in doing it. There is a saying in french that say It's better to be stupid and not talking, then to talk and prove to everybody that you are stupid. So if somebody is not sure or simply don't know of what he's talking about it's better for him to not talk then trying to show everybody that he's the best.

[Persephone]

If i could go through this game soloing til i get my Dark Knight to lvl 25 i would b happy. Because by lvl 25 most people know wut they are doing.


Your theory is a contradiction. If everyone could solo til 25, then all those 25's would be coming with no idea how to perform in a party. The level 25-30 parties would be the new 'Valkurm' quality and you'd soon be wishing you could solo until 35, and on and on.

I sincerely doubt that players are going to be that much better of a player being allowed to continue to solo from 15-25. They may pick up basic knowledge on an extra skill or two in that time period, but let's face it - the people who are clueless are still stuck on level 5 skills (ie. Provoke). The fact is that the clueless people we all hate are usually only clueless on the party aspect of the game, so I'm thankful that they have to start partying by 15. The sooner the better and the more party-experiences they'll gain.

[Seroth]

Well he does have a point here that solo-ing should get you more exp. I mean, what if you just don't feel like partying for a day? Or what if the members of your party aren't online when you are? Then it'd be great to just screw around a bit and fight monsters on your own. Ofcourse, you can do the same now but the exp. reward is just way too low. With more exp. soloing would be a lot more fun and rewarding so things like waiting for other party members to get online or so wouldn't be so boring anymore because you can just lvl-up a bit.


and also

Ultimately, the goal of most loners is in fact a social one -- gain status and admiration through impressive accomplishments, presumably without the help of others.

Loners should be considered as well, because it's indeed fun (for some people) to do that kind of stuff and build up a wicked reputation. I mean, okay, it's not really what a MMORPG is made for, but the few players out there who like that kind of style should be able to play that way. But now it's way too hard to really do 'impressive' stuff (slay a dragon or so) by yourself.
And I do consider that a flaw. Sure, it's not a monumental failure but still, it can get on peoples nerves. Then again, who knows...There are many patches to come, many expansions as well, and there's nothing a good update couldn't fix.


that's just my 2 cents though...

[Bladers]

OK, i made it.


For those of you that dont no im the one that started this post, lol.

i finally got to quifim, where most ppl FINALLY know wut there talking about...

[Amaterasu]

for the person who said about curing using <t>

instead of p0, p1 etc i find its easier to use f1,f2,f3,f4 etc to target and use a targeting macro.

esp. when u have Cure I, Cure II, Cure III, Cure IV, Cure V, Regen, Regen II, etc.

its just a suggestion, everyone has their own preference.

enjoy!

[Malachi_Gage]

Originally posted by Arctyc
Teach the n00bs their essential skills. Give them tips, let them know what they're doing wrong, and ever more importantly, what they're doing right.

I've heard the loner argument, and it only holds water for so long. Ultimately, the goal of most loners is in fact a social one -- gain status and admiration through impressive accomplishments, presumably without the help of others....

Yeah, I myself am tired of the "lone wolf argument," this game is a massive MULTIPLAYER online rpg.

When I'm a noob on a game, there's nothing like hearing what I'm doing right...and I try to improve as much as I can on what they say, without losing sight of what I'm okay at. I guess the good stuff is kind of like hope that u'll be good one day.:spin:

[Rawls]

yeah i find parties great especially when every1 has a great attitude..

just last week end i partied w/ a thf, whm, bkm and a rdm that later invited me into their clan (YAY!) and we were doing very well, getting about 3k-4k and hour chaining canyon crawlers in tahrongi. we we had this elv war with us from our clan we were able to take on dhamels w/ relative ease with a lvl 8-10 (the elv being the only lvl 10). even w/out him we were able to chain pretty well and the only set back were when a yagudo piper (IT IIRC), or a gob (also IT) or a yagudo presecutor (either VT or IT IIRC) spawned in the middle of our party -_-. but other than that everything was going smoothly i lvled 2-3 (can't remember which) times just that day.. unfortunately because of my severe restriction on when i can play (dad's comp's vid card is an AF Riva TNT2 Pro), so 2 days a wk is my norm of play time, i might not be lvled high enough to party w/ them in the future :( .

oh well just my story of how i came to be part of my clan/ls....

[Methrage]

Although I have always thought it would be better if i could solo when i wanted to, when i got to lvl 30 is when things realy got bad. I would wait around jeuno for many hours and not get any invites, this is as drg/thf and drg/war. I thought it might just be cause Im dragoon but noticed paladins and mages also sitting seeking group for long periods of time. I started thinking about quiting but decided to lvl up whm and sub it and see if soloing would get alittle easier. But now that i have started lvling whitemage i might just stay whitemage, cause it's not that bad of a class to play and even with whitemage sub soloing would suck with the way this game is set up. So I agree 100% the biggest flaw in this game is it's lack of soloing ability, and if they realy needed to have it like that they should of had 2 or 3 people could make a decent party. Also the fact that every party needs a whitemage or skilled redmage is another major downfall. Potions should be cheaper, easier to obtain, and cure more health.

[Tobold]

Who said "you can't solo in FFXI"?

I'm a level 20 white mage, which must be the absolutely worst class for soloing, but I can still solo. Okay, I can only solo easy prey, and xp per hour is low. But if I have just 1 hour for playing for some Real Life (tm) reason, that's okay.

Big improvement over Everquest where only the best soloing classes where able to solo easy prey, and everybody else couldn't gain a single xp soloing after a certain level.

[Thingol]

Mentioning EQ there was one thing about EQOA... the 4 person parties were nice for quicker grouping but no alliences made raids real tough...still the pace of the game was (is..i suppose) so much faster. Camps insta spawned and everone had HoT and MoT (PoT) rather than resting... so with my typical grinding party (something like Paladin[me], druid [healer], wizzy [DD], bard [melee and serious mana regen]) you could literally pull monsters non stop for hours and hours on end with out one pause (till armor breaks or something)

Different game..different situation... but it seems to me the issue here is pace.. it just takes a long time to find a competent group of 6 to hunt and it can be tough to find good sites to do it as there really aren't clearly defined camps (I won't get started on that one).

The one thing I have noticed in all MMO's though is that as you level it takes longer to find a group but once you do they stay together longer and work better.

And on the last tangent... war's that don't provoke... blm's that chain nuke, Elvaan Rangers (JK:p )...Rarely do you see a truely incompetent Bard ^^ (well perhapse with the exception of the poster of this message ^^)

[Meriadoc]

Party play <3

Solo gets boring.. I'd fall asleep alone..
Being in a party that has good teamwork.. nothing can beat that.

At higher levels.. well, higher.. 35~ and up, you can make smaller groups with pretty good results.
A well balanced of 3-4 people can chain Even Matches for some exp, but the smaller groups would be mostly for farming, but instead of being alone taking on easy preys and too weak enemies, you can handle decent challenge and even match enemies, upping the exp per hour..

I partied with a thf and a war(I'm whm) hunting tigers for tiger fangs.
2 hours later we had 8 fangs each(we split evenly) and gained about 3000 exp...not bad for 2 hours if you ask me.