Thief/WHM - Opinions please.

[stigger]

I ran around and laughed at people who chose Thf/Whm, and thought "why would anyone pick those 2 completely different classes?"

Eventually later on, I thought about it and realized its a pretty decent idea. After gettin my sub-class I upped my WHM job to lvl 15 and went back to my thief...

so now im running a 18Thf/9Whm, and its working pretty awesome. I can sneak attack, do lots of damage in general (mainly use swords), and heal myself when in danger. Also my evasion is high so stuff barely hits me.

Basically with the new lvl cap going up to 75 soon, that means that the sub will be able to get up to 37 (which allows the WHM to use even more sick spells like Warp...etc)

Anyone here think that Thief/Whm is a great idea or completely shitty idea.

Any comments welcome.

[Sinzer]

I thought about it for a while, but the problem I see is that even at level 16 in a PT I never rest. My job is to save up all my TP and not be hit so that WHM can concentrate on the tank while I do damage from behind.

If I sub monk (As I use knuckles at this level) I will increase my damage through lower delay, gain boost and overall be more combat orientated. WHM will be fine for sub solo, but in a group you will not heal efficiently, you will not be doing as much damage and you will have to med thus losing TP.

I am sure you can make it work if you try really hard, but you will definately not be as powerful as melee/melee combo.

[Socrates]

a hume/mithra PLD of the same lv would have almost 3x the mana u do. Even if u could teach yourself raise, reraise, warp, etc, i'm not sure if you can even cast it with such low mp!

[stigger]

i dont necessarily want it to be as "powerful" as a melee/melee unit, theres lots and lots of those going around, i basically wanna be useful (and yet twisted) towards the team. Lots of partys are always searching for a WHM. Not enough going around, and i think having a lil bit more of WHM may be more help than having another melee/melee against a hella strong monster.

3-4 melee guys only need 1 whm, having a little more to heal can be a little bit tricky.

[Socrates]

it's a better solo action. if you really wanted to save someone in your party who's about to die, you're better off provoking with a WAR subjob.

i know at lv 18thf/WHM, you only have close to 40mana. u can get about 5 subpar cures out of it.

not much IMO to justify the lowered def and attack. if you had higher str, maybe u woulda sneak attacked the monster to death instead of resorting to curing.

anyway, have fun with your THF/WHM, i admire your unconventional thoughts.

[stigger]

Socrates is right... it was okay on some lvls, but once i got into higher levels (21thf/10whm) it got a lil shitty, I had 45mp for a lvl21 character,a nd just to think that CureII next lvl woulda taken over half my MP.

I switched to War/Thief and now im doin some major damage with a scythe.

[xage01]

Hi, this is my opinion on why I think subbing whm is pretty good for a thief. (I apologize for the long post, but I have too many good things to say about being a thf/whm)

First of all I have a lev 22THF/WHM and the above post is correct I have about 40 mp without any +mp items on. However at lev 22 there are some good items that add a fair amount of MP like the hair pins (the one I have adds 15mp) and the two earrings (add 3 mp each), thus, giving me addition of 21mp +the 40ish I have is pretty good amount for healing.

by no means can I consider myself a main healer, or even a back up healer...but I can do good as a backup's backup healer.

here are my points:

-I must agree that you will have more max hp by subbing a monk or warrior, but when it comes down to it a whm sub can heal at least 6 to 8 times with cure I (with the current items I have, I can heal 7 times total) and each heal is 30 hp, thus I can heal about 240 hp, more than any sub job adds in bonus hp

-War can provoke, MNK can boost and counter, wonderful abilities, especially using provoke to the hate off whm in the party right? well yes, but if you start to heal others in the party, your whm in the group won't need to heal as much, thus producing less hate, and on top of that sometimes provoke (rarely, but still) misses. But a heal from you may save the whm and give a chance for someone to provoke again.

-so you might say curing takes up your chance to do normal attacks and sneak attacks. well since sneak attack is every min you can heal between them so that doesn't really affect that too much, and as for your normal attack: consider this, when you are fighting a incredibly tough monster (which you would to gain some nice exp) you rarely hit the monster, and if you do you do pretty crappy damage compared to the tanks of the party. so it doesn't really matter if you hit it, I am pretty sure you are not going to be able to kill the monster with your normal attacks :)

-this brings me to the next point, about the whole matter of TP, a few common questions are: you need to rest to regain mp and thus you lose out on gaining mp or lose the TP you have already gained will be lost by resting too much.

(1) regaining mp is not that big of a problem considering you don't have much to start out with right? you rest way less than the mages in the group so losing TP is at a minimal

(2) knowing when to rest makes a difference, when you build enough tp don't rest, execute you move with the party, then you have zero mp, then who cares if you rest

(3) you hit fast with daggers, use that to gain tp faster then a two-handed sword or scythe, when the new patch comes out switching weapons doesn't reset your tp amount

(4) drink some orange juice if you need to, one bottle and you’re good to go

-there might not always be a whm around in your party (sometimes 2 rdms fill the spot of a whm), being able to cast poisona, potectra, barwatera, barsleepra, (to name a few), are very good additions to a party

-there are times your partied will be hit by area effect spells like the gob's bomb for example, and it helps if you can help heal the group

-healing 30hp maybe a bit low, but when the whm is dry out of mp and is resting, you regain yours faster (since you have less) you can heal up the tanks and continue to rest, so when your party is good to go (i.e. the main mages have full mp) your party will be at full health because you have been healing them while the mages were resting.

I hope I covered all the problems and hopefully gave an idea of how to solve them. I know it’s not the best main job/sub job combination, but it still works, I hope I helped :)

[Kimahriii]

Thief/WHM is beyond worthless shitty heals and low mp for much less attack and defensive not worth it at all. I notice people saying that 1 or 2cures can save someone yes sure but so can 80-100more dmg. There a little rule to remeber if your wondering about a subjob Melee don't sub Mage and Mage don't sub Melee no matter what thats the golden rule to remeber.

[Sinzer]

It will take you 40-50secs to regain that MP? That is 40-50 TP lost, so you would have to be in excess a lot.

(2) knowing when to rest makes a difference, when you build enough tp don't rest, execute you move with the party, then you have zero mp, then who cares if you rest

In my experience so far, my TP pretty much rises in synch with the tanks, esp if I am not using a dagger for other renkei skills. If you are losing 40-50 TP all the time you will be out of synch holding up the renkei's.

drink some orange juice if you need to, one bottle and you’re good to go

I am already eating mithkabobs! :)

There are some benefits but I really don't think it is an attractive alternative to outputting damage which is what us THFs are supposed to do.

[Iiowyn]

Weapon speed affects how much TP you get per swing, the scythes and greataxes that are slow as hell give 10-12% TP per hit iirc, and daggers give about 5% per hit.

Iiowyn

[Hadoken]

You'd be crazy to say that you're helping out the party by saving the WHM a couple of Cures every few minutes. The WHM wouldn't need to use those Cures if you were doing high damage like you were supposed to... the mob would be dead a few hits earlier so it wouldn't get those last few hits in. Less damage taken = fewer heals needed.

And it's kind of silly to say "Well since you don't hit very much against an IT, and you do crappy damage against them, might as well not try at all and have some healing ability to fall back on." Every bit of damage counts in a really difficult fight, every bit of TP counts in a really difficult fight, do not expect your abyssmal 65 pt Cure II to make the difference in a fight like that as the tanks are getting hit for 120. Rely on your melee ability, that's what the group invited you for. I'm not saying a THF can't take that sub and still be useful, just saying that you don't rationalize lower damage by saying "well I miss a lot anyway".

[Spork]

I tested both THF/WAR and THF/WHM tonight. Here are my thoughts.

First off, a little back story. I got this game a few weeks ago. I started out as a Taru WHM. Few days ago I hit 20 WHM/ 10 BLM, got my Chocobo license and decided I’d had enough of this job. I was sick of being poor, and sick of spending 90% of my playtime staring at health bars. Was not fun at all.

So I decided to switch to THF/WAR.

I spent one night getting WAR to L10. Put WAR to subjob and started my THF.

I was not impressed at all with the THF/WAR combo. I died a ton. I had a lot of downtime.

I switched over to THF/WHM. Logged off tonight with a L11 THF. 1 to 11 in around 6 hours of playtime. I was easily fighting even and decent mobs the entire night. It was so easy.

So here is how I look at it. At L11 it breaks down like this.

With WAR Subjob I get :
- 8 extra HP
- 1 extra STR
- 1 extra DEX
- Provoke

With WHM Subjob I get :
- Cure, Dia, Paralyze, Banish
- 37 Mana. No mana gear. Go Taru!


So with 37 mana at L11 I can cast 4 Cures for 22 HP heals each. That's 88 extra HPS. Sure beats the 8 I get with WAR.

1 less dex and str I can live with.

Plus I have other spells. Dia is great for taking on evens. Lower their defense.

At L12 I'll be able to cure poison.
At L14 I'll be able to cast protect. Always having a +10 defense bonus.

For me, WHM is the better sub. All you really get with WAR sub is provoke. Big frikkin' deal, leave that to the real WARS. With WHM you get great utility spells. No one is expecting you to play healer in a party, but it's there incase of emergencies.

Where WHM really shines is solo play. Soloing while waiting for a PT. Farming. Treasure hunting, etc. You become self sufficient in these situations. And a lot safer ;)

I'll keep using THF/WHM until L30 then go THF/NINJA.

[Nameless]

The thing is THF don't solo.

Don't be a THF/WHM, people won't like you, and we don't want that now do we?

Also, ever heard of berserk? /WAR > /WHM anyday.

And farming? If you need cures for farming you shouldn't be farming, go back to selling crystals :rolleyes: .

EDIT: I noticed you said something about protect, well wow, at level 10 WAR gets a latent effect defense bonus. And you'll never need to cure yourself in a group, you'll be just like those useless WAR/WHM. The only reason for /WHM is for coffer hunting at level 50+.

[ewaltz196]

For a low level character who is soloing the first 10 or so levels, subbing whm is IMO the thing to do as you can heal yourself. However, what I think the previous few posters are talking about is related to how THFs shld function in a PT.

Of course, you can still get into PTs as a THF/WHM. But you will be making a subpar type of melee character in the PT and not contributing fully to the effectiveness of the PT. So that is why in PTs, a mage type shld have a mage sub whereas a melee type shld have a mele sub instead.

IMO, the best types of subs for a THF is MNK or WAR till you are about lvl 24. After that, NIN sub will be very good for the lvls above 24 cos of the dual wielding and the blink bags that you can now start using as ur NIN sub shld be at least 12 when ur THF is at 24.

But then this is all only my humble opinion. For soling, be whatever u want to be. For PTs, try to think about how ur role in the PT and how u can contribute more fully and effectively to it.

Cheers and enjoy your THF:thumbsup:

[ClydeArrowny]

Thf/Whm is only even decent for soloing......it SUCKS in PT.....you wont be wearing all those MP up items when you can wear dex and agi up ones unless you want to be gimp. Plus at lower lvs thf is a good backup provoker like the dmg dealers with war sub, and thf with grapples and mnk sub gets martial arts and mnk only WS's. Nin sub sucks unless youre usinfg dual wield to its full potential, i.e. dont be cheap with the weaponry.

P.S My keyboard is messed up so if i made any spelling errors, thats why...already spent 10 mins correcting my messed up KB :/

[Spork]

Originally posted by Nameless
The thing is THF don't solo.

Don't be a THF/WHM, people won't like you, and we don't want that now do we?

Also, ever heard of berserk? /WAR > /WHM anyday.

And farming? If you need cures for farming you shouldn't be farming, go back to selling crystals :rolleyes: .

EDIT: I noticed you said something about protect, well wow, at level 10 WAR gets a latent effect defense bonus. And you'll never need to cure yourself in a group, you'll be just like those useless WAR/WHM. The only reason for /WHM is for coffer hunting at level 50+.

Look, I'm not talking about the endgame here. I'm talking about the lower levels. 1-30. IMO WHM wins. THF don't solo? Umm, yes they do. Most have to solo to L14-15 before you start seeing PT invites. Other than provoke and a couple more HPS, subbing WAR really doesn't offer you much in the L1-29 days.

Yes I've heard of berserk, but again, you would require L30 in order to have the WAR subjob at L15 to use it.. Like I said, at L30 I will (and most others) go THF/NIN.

Again, my comments where based on my experiences at lower levels. Maybe those comments do not belong in this post, now that I read the origional topic again, the poster was talking about using WHM all the way to the endgame. My bad.

Way to keep an open mind there though. Sorta sad that If you don't pick the most uber combo in this game, you are looked at like this :

Don't be a THF/WHM, people won't like you, and we don't want that now do we?

[SanguineAG]

no one really cares about thfs under lvl 15 .. .. you'll be soloing anyways
heck you can sub bst .. Lvls 1-15 takes 8-10 hours to get
Its hardly worth mentioning these lvls in the usefullness of thf/whm
... why would
you want a thf/whm in your party at lvl 20-29 .. when a rdm
does the same melee dmg that you do (except SA) heals so much
better than you and nukes = your SA ..

Honestly i don't know why your getting so upset that people are
telling you why its not such a good idea .. We are trying to do
you a favor and save you all the heartache of trying to find groups
willing to take you in .. if 2 people where seeking party
a 40/20 thf/whm .. or a 40/10 thf/war ... 9 out of 10 the thf/war
will get the group even though he has a weaker sub lvl