BLM/WHM BLM/SMN BLM/RDM what is the best?

[Bor]

So, what one do you think is the best and why. I just want to get some opinions befor I start to sub one. THANKS:thumbsup:

[SteelLord]

I think that for a sub, WHM would be a popular sub, half support/damage spells.
RDM would be for all out offence spells blasts. With some healing power.
Many people suggests SMN to be a good sub, but I don't see why u need to have BOTH summon and spells to dish out damage.

[Bor]

ya I think I will go RDM for all out attack power plus so back up healing for myself.:thumbsup:

[Secrenja]

/SMN is used for the MP, not the summons. I would say got BLM/WHM. /RDM offers little to no benefeits to you compared to white mage. /SMN is used only for MP. /WHM gives you half-assed cure magic, but its really helpful in a bind, poisona and other status neutralizers are good. /WHM gives you higher INT and MND then RDM and SMN, and gives more MP then RDM, and better spells.

[david_blaine]

nah rdm sub gets more INT then whm sub.

plus you get fast cast to nuke em all to hell.

[Zenyx]

I don't think I've ever been in a group that the casting time on my spells was limiting me from doing damage. It's generally the hate producing capacity of the melee that limit you, unless you're planning on suiciding.

[Zenyx]

Although I've heard that later it might be helpful for doing multiple MB's in a multi skillchain. Although I can still do multiple MB's (with different elements) at the moment, I think it doesn't start to become a problem until you're fairly high level.

[Morphy]

Fast Cast might be good for soloing, but in case anybody hasnt noticed, there's not much reason to solo after 30 :p

[Archkyle]

i dont know about you guys but i like SMN not for its mp but for its summons....i just like that kinda thing...but that's just me....

-Arch

[FrostPhoenix]

I like SMN for it's summons too.
I will be switching between BLM and SMN, but I've read quit a few times that BLM/SMN and SMN/BLM are bad combos. I'm concidering levelling RDM and use it as sub for both BLM and SMN.
Is this a good idea to do?

[Seance]

how about BLM/RDM?

The benefits of this will come at a way higher levle, but you can get Refresh ! I love the idea of refilling my MP faster cause although I love BLM, I sit and rest half the time that I'm leveling and that gets quite annoying. And you'll still get Raise Cure1, cure2, cure3 and all that good stuff also.

i dunno but im thinking of starting over my sub as a redmage

[Tiberian]

As of right now Square has said the lv cap will be 75 and that's it. Refresh is lv41 so you will not be able to use it when you sub rdm.

[FrostPhoenix]

And you won't be able to have raise either when you sub rdm, because raise is lvl 38 for rdm and the maximum sub lvl is 37 when your main job reaches 75... :(

[Seance]

you know what? I did not know that and played 10 hours to lvl up my new redmage sub today (from a whm sub). I'm quite shocked and dissapointed that I will not be able to get refresh or raise because of the level cap, but Square is bound to raise the lvl cap by the time my 22 blm is lvl 75 and my 9rdm is lvl 41

right?

I think im gonna stick this through ^.~ and hope for the best or get a kick in the goongdang otherwise.

[Tiberian]

I don't think Square will ever let the very good class specific spells or abilities be used when you sub. Say one day the lv cap is raised to 85, I think refresh will become a lv43 spell instead of 41.

[aznsky]

BLM/RDM

Lets just say that would be a true Nuker. And that is the point of being a BLM right? Nuking and Nuking!!

WHM/SUM
this will be a true WHM because more MP means more healing

BLM/SUM
Not a true Nuker but it does help only cause of MP. But also my theory is that Why Keep on Nuking if i can kill them faster With a BLM/RDM?

I'm being a BLM/RDM right now and it's great =). You also be side healers like.

Cast Bio, Rasp, Bliz, Cure, Fire, Cure, Bliz, Cure, Fire etc....

If you do sub a RDM just make sure your not the only person that has cure in the group.

[Radamvice]

one of the main reasons id consider /rdm is that it gets the magic attack up passive, /whm doesnt.

[BALD TARU TARU]

Dispel

[Fae]

Dispel is Rdm main only spell, sorry. :sweat:

[Lord Black]

a blm/rdm is definitely the best combo. great int,good mp and enough whm spells to keep alive! i find that it is the best attack out there.

although, i also like a brd/(whm/blm/rdm)........

[Tsama]

blm/rdm is a good combo I like it.

It gives a nice amount of MP Int etc.

Now the best IMHO is blm/smn.

If you have more summons. With Carbuncle stay away from it. Bu later on when you get more summons. Garuda, Ifrit etc. It is a good combo because at that point you have your summon beating the crap out of what your fighting and your Nuking it to hell. This really helps keep your hate down because there are some summoning spells that do a shitload of DMG and get tons of Hate.

So if you get that combo going and working good you will be doing great.

I swear as soon as I get some mre Traders Guild Fame I am going to go after some summons and work this out. I will post just how good it works.

Not to mention there are summon spells that just kickass.

I think Garuda gets the party Blink ability at 15. That is just to great.

[Fippish]

From everything I've heard/read/researched BLM/SMN isn't much of a choice.. You get highest MP.. by a bit.. 1 more INT than /RDM at 70, and Auto-Refresh. Some nice bonuses to be sure, if there weren't alternatives.
/RDM gets a bit less MP, and 1 less INT, so that's not really much of a disability, and if you add the Magic Attack UP ability, it well more than makes up for it, by a good 500% or so. RDM also has heals (invaluable at times), more HP, Faster casting.. which is very nice for Escape : p.
/WHM gets even closer to the same MP, about 3-4 less INT (not sure) So they will nuke for a bit less than either of the other two, and have a bit less hps than RDM, but will have a ton of support viability. With good heals and tons of MP to use them, BLM/WHM makes a great backup..

But all this has been discussed before. I'm just really surprised to see someone say "Now the best IMHO is BLM/SMN"

SMN is really, in terms of getting the most usefulness from class abilities, the WORST caster sub to pick.. not that you shouldn't, I probably will for fun once I get all the summons...

But the summons are useless, you CANNOT USE THEM AT ALL if it is subbed, with the exception of beneficial ones (not sure if there's anything other than Garuda tho). While a summon is out, it drains your MP fairly quickly. At 1/2 your level, it will be entirely useless offensively, they will not do shitloads of dmg, or develop any hate of their own, not to mention draining the precious MP you could use to land a nuke or debuff.

I've talked to one high lvl BLM/SMN, and he said he only uses BLM/SMN in his perma-group, that already has 3 people that can heal in it, outside that group, he subs WHM. That's probably what I'll do, except it will be /RDM instead of /WHM

[Calianeri]

SMN is really, in terms of getting the most usefulness from class abilities, the WORST caster sub to pick.. not that you shouldn't, I probably will for fun once I get all the summons...

I couldn't agree more with this. A BLM needs to be able to do backup healing. I've played with BLM/SMN often, unfortunately, and because of that subjob they noticeably reduced their usefulness to the party. The extra MP was not as useful as the lost healing ability. I don't ever expect a BLM to heal a lot, but they need to be willing and able to step in and use their MP for healing sometimes. BLMs are blessed with a lot of MP, and if they're good they conserve it wisely. That means they have the resources to step in and heal when they sub /WHM or /RDM.

Personally I prefer BLMs to have /WHM so they can help the WHM cure status effects (poison, paralysis, blindness) and cast a divine-sealed Curaga. RDM sub can't do that.

A BLM played well is a fantastic thing. Playing it well means having the ability to heal/cure status when needed, in addition to your bread-and-butter nuking and enfeebling.

[imac2much]

I'm not a mage, but are you sure that RDM and BLM Magic Attack Up passives stack? I am under the impression that any "such-and-such UP" passive is at first "such-and-such UP I", like "PHYS DEF UP I", "PHYS ATK UP I"... certain classes will get multiple versions of this passive at higher level that DO stack (like "PHYS DEF UP II"), but for classes that only get 1, they won't stack with eachother. For example, PLD's first PHYS DEF UP and WAR's only PHYS DEF UP do not stack. Oh well, food for thought, and if RDM's MAG ATK UP really does not stack, just one more reason to sub WHM than a RDM...

[Fippish]

Yes, we're sure, they wouldn't give us a trait at lvl 10, 30 and 50, and have them not stack, that's like giving a WHM Cure at lvl 1, Cure at lvl 11 and Cure at lvl 22

I found it to be quite noticeable at lvl 30 actually.

[imac2much]

No, I'm sure that all of the BLM's MAG ATK UP stacks.

What I'm asking is:
Do BLM and RDM MAG ATK UP stack? Because I find this unlikely. BLM will get MAG ATK UP I, MAG ATK UP II, MAG ATK UP III... RDM only get MAG ATK UP I, and it will not stack. This is how it is with other "something" UP passive traits. I just brought this up because someone mentioned RDM's MAG ATK UP as a bonus to a BLM.

[Icemage]

I'm fairly certain that the BLM and RDM Magic Attack Up I traits do not stack. None of the other stacked subjob traits do - Clear Mind I, Physical Defense Up I, Physical Attack Up I... so I wouldn't think Magic Attack up is any different. It should be fairly easy to test, however.


Icemage

[ajg126]

"Dispel is Rdm main only spell, sorry. " - Fae

....no its not dispel can be used by rdm sub, and is a reason ppl sub rdm sometimes if theres no bard or rdm main in the PT

[Helmar]

As of right now, SE said Genkai 4 is the final quest of the series. SE has yet to flat out say they will never raise the cap in the future.

And Calianeri, you've just essentially described RDM. :P

[Calianeri]

And Calianeri, you've just essentially described RDM. :P

I see why you say that, because part of the cliche description of RDM is "a mix of black and white magic". But in pratice, RDM is very different than BLM/WHM or WHM/BLM.

A BLM/WHM is primarily in the party to nuke consistently and burst on skillchains. Nobody nukes better than a BLM. They are also there to use elemental enfeebles. To sleep and escape. And, when needed, to use that /WHM sub to Cure II/Curaga/poisona/etc -- and that need arises fairly often and is very important IMHO. A RDM can't do all of that alone, but more importantly also has other unique things they should do, namely enfeeble, refresh, and dispel. Also a BLM will have a lot more MP to work with than a RDM.

But my main point is that backup healing is very important, even when you have a good WHM in the party. A SMN sub doesn't provide backup healing. So BLM/WHM is a natural fit -- it doesn't hurt the BLM, and it helps the party immensely.

[Radamvice]

Very good point Icemage, ive been wondering about that for awhile and never looked at it that way, lol.

[BALD TARU TARU]

blm/summ= paper weight
blm/whm= utilityknife
blm/rdm=MBin monster

[Apotheosis]

Okay guys, I've tried to make a guide for selecting a subjob for the BLM (only RDM vs WHM). I hope all the information in it is accurate, and if there are inaccuracies, I hope that you correct me

The guide is available at
http://www.josephe.com/ffxi/BLMSubjob.htm

Please give it a quick read through and tell me what you think. Thanks a lot!