am I too naive to expect help

[SmartieKjm]

how i see it...as we are a team in the kingdom...it is us against the world...us against the beastmen and us against the other kingdoms.

that leads me to think we should help one another...if someone is running from a monster and you can take the monster...save the person...that is a victory for the kingdom...so the beastmen don't get a kill added to their ranks....also your helping your fellow mate out.

or if a lower player needs a little gil for a decent weapon...so he can shed some beastman blood...give him some gil to get him started..so he can help slay the beastmen.

this is how i thought it should be....but i have received minimal help in my personal journey....i will be running from a monster who attacked me from behind..and higher level players will run right past and not even lend a hand...or a few times i was attacked by a group of tough monsters.....and a whole group of people just sat and watched me die...instead of jumped in to help.

or asked for help on a mission and people just ran by...instead i end up dead because i had to go alone.

i have had many occasions such as this.....there also have been a few people who have helped me...but alot have not.

am i being too naive thinking people should help others out....is this not how the kingdom works? is it ever man for himself?

[hive_mind]

i agree with you to an extent smart, but there are also alot of good people out there who will lend a hand. i've only recently started playing, and people frequently help me if i'm in trouble. its quite common for people to cast cure and protect on you when your healing....however, as my level and experience increased, i notcied not as many people helped me. personally i would like to progress through the games under my own steam and with as little help as possible (until, of course, i'll need to start partying), and i think that is the case with the majority of other players...

[SmartieKjm]

yeah but this isn't a single player game....we should all be working together in a way.

i understand what you are saying...i dont want anyone to hold my hand and be my parent hehe....but if i am running for my life from something....and not one...not two...but three higher level payers just run past me without even a hint of trying to help...i mean cmon...not only did you help the beastmen gain control over the territory...and also you have set a bad example for the younger players...they see that and they are like...i am not gonna help either.

but if you help people...it goes in a big circle...then that person remembers someone helped him...and he will help another person..and that person will do the same...and it starts a big "renkei" of sorts....a renkei of help.

me personally i have helped alot of people....every single time someone needed help and i could help i helped....sure it maybe took a little gil out of my pocket....took a little time...but it is worth it imo.

i cant believe a fellow member of the kingdom could sit and watch another die by the hands of the beastmen.....i one time chased a beastman across a whole map to help someone...hehe.

i have a hard time finding people to team up with....a hard time finding people to help....i am thinking im going to have to be beastmaster just so i can survive.

[GT Racer]

It really depends on the people. I've had people that were really low on hp still jump in and help take down an add that came out of nowhere. At the same time as i'm running around highlands with plaguebreath on me (shouldnt have been fighting mist lizards anyway) i've seen white mages just cruise on by.

However one time i ran up to a group and died before they even noticed i was there, but they even put the effort forth to raise me.

generally parties are the way to go past say lvl 8, it gets alot safer and the downtime between fights is shorter.

now the whole "lend gil for a better weapon" arguement, i must somewhat disagree with. The lower levels are balanced enough that you dont need an uber-sword to be competitive, and not much pisses me off more than a low lever spamming everyone around the auction house with "PLZ CAN SOME1 LEND ME SOME $$?"

[Calianeri]

I've seen many people help others when in they're trouble on Phoenix. I hope what you've noticed is just bad luck and not uncaring players... :sweat:

Make sure you Call For Help (control-g) if you're in trouble... not only will people be able to attack the monster if you're already fighting it, but they will also see a notice on their screens and in the chat log.

Communication is really important. If you're poisoned, etc, make sure you say something! Many players won't run around targeting everyone in sight and looking at their HP. Do a /say as you are looking for assistance. (Don't do a /shout unless you can give a landmark.)

Also remember that if you are running from a monster, it can be difficult for other players to cast on you, or attack or cast on the monster. I feel bad when someone in trouble runs out of range just as I'm casting Cure II, or drags the monster too far just when I try to grab it with Dia. If you're near other players and they look like they are moving to help you, try some zig zags or circles to stay in range.

[SmartieKjm]

sometimes people do help.

like a nice person named "jehna" helped me fiinish the first mission in windurst..no way i could of finished without her help.

but she went out her way to help me.

so at least there are some people out there who try and help...hehe...thanks jehna.

:)

[Star Sibyl]

I hate to blame it on the noobs again but when I played beta, people were almost always willing to help. All you had to do was call for help and depending on who was nearby almost everyone would jump in and kill the mob. Noobs on the other hand haven't realized the power of team playing yet and maybe some are just too busy trying to defend themselves.

I'm sure later on all this will change though as the dependency on the team effort is much more emphasized at later levels.

Just hang in there Smart for the next few levels! :thumbsup:

[SmartieKjm]

hehe thanks.

actually some of the newer players have been ones to help me more....it is like the level 10's and up who never help.

sometimes the newer players can't kill the monster and can't help...i understand that but you usually can tell a person's level by their armor...if someone has "scale armor" on..obviously they can take out a orc....or a yaguda.

but if a person has "the green noob clothes" lol....they maybe can't take out the yaguda to help.

but i see many people i know "can" help....not help....like a monk in full kenpogi gear which is level 8....just run right past me like he doesn't see me about to die,etc.

i think the newer players kind of form a bond cuz we never get helped and we try and help each other hehe.

not always the case but in my short lifespan that is how it tends to be.


PS: what kind of monk doesn't help a fellow in time of need..shame on you mr. monk.

tee hee :)

[Macht]

Yeah, I've had help in fight before. I've tried to help a lot, but it's hard to help someone when they run in a straight line. No way I'd ever catch up unless I had Flee..

I was helped out in a bad fight in Giddeus once. An additional monster spawned there and before I knew it I had an army of yagudo after me.

I had about 4 players that saw the event and all came to help their whm saved my life. The other three just started going threw them each taking on one at a time.

The entire battle must of lasted maybe 20 min. or 30 min... and everyone left pretty happy from that.. The party ended up getting a lot of items they were there for and I got a good amount of exp and most of all I didn't die :thumbsup:

[wrecklass]

Well, in all honesty, yes it is pretty naive if you expect people to help you. People are living their own lives, and what they do or don't see going on around them can often surprise you. Sometimes a person who runs by you doesn't even notice you, either because they are looking at their map, responding to someone in their linkshell, or who knows.

Don't expect to be helped, rather, be happily surprised when you are!;)

[Chara]

I have had quite the oppisite experience maybe its just sylph but everytime I have called for help someone has tried to help. I get healed on a daily basis by people walking by and have had protect cast on me more than once. Maybe people feel that tarus are so cute they have to help.;)

[SmartieKjm]

hey im a taru too....maybe im a ugly one. :)


to the other post...there is no way someone can miss a big freaky looking yaguda chasing a taru around lol.

iand it is not like it just happaned once....im talking many times...also not just that..help with quests,etc.

i just was expecting more of a friendly environment is all

[Demon_of_Elru]

or asked for help on a mission and people just ran by...instead i end up dead because i had to go alone.

Man, you cant EXPECT people to go and help you on a mission. That thing takes time. People who play FFXI can play for only a certain amount of time, and they most likely have something planned for that time. Yeah there will be people that will help you out sometimes, but just dont EXPECT that help.

And things like "giving some gil to help for a weapon" well in my opinion, getting gil is your own characters problem. When I was first starting, I didn't want or expect anyone to give me gil, so I got it my own way.

When it comes to getting chased and nearly dieing by a monster, and people just run past. I think someone said this in another reply, people may be doing something and they dont know you are being chased.

Just yesterday I was leveling my lvl 9 MNK. There was a guy infront of me who was killing a Goblin, but got agro from an Orc. He ran right infront of me and said help. Now, I couldn't help him, he was still engaged in fighting them and because I was only lvl 9, my subjob warrior was lvl 4 so I didn't have 'Provoke'. He just kept running around and I couldn't do anything and he died. Now he probably thought I was a bastard for not helping him.

So you've just gotta rely on yourself, and make sure you dont get added agro, or make sure you can win the fight, and if somethng happens and your nearly dieing just try and do the most logical thing you can think of, like zoning or something. Sometimes someone will see you in trouble and will have the ability to save you. Sometimes there wont be.

[FireMouse]

I'm ALWAYS willing to help out Respectful individuals. the other day I gave a few antidotes to a pair working on the Subjob quest because they kept getting poisoned by Damselflies and didn't have a WHM. I've used my 2 hour ability when I was low health leveling thief to save a newbie who would have other wise died.

The Main reasons I helped them were;

1) They asked politely, or proved themselves before to be good players. (The newbie had respectfully asked for advice previous to the lifesaving)

2) Didn't demand my assistance.

You also have to speak up if you want help. if I see a monster chasing you, I don't know if you're pulling or if you're being chased, although if I'm near a zone line I'll usually jump in if I don't see a group nearby. Healing, mob handling, all that stuff is more than happily given by myself. however, on to the other subject..

The instant I see someone ask for money, in ANY amount, they are immediatly blacklisted. I do not abide beggars (they fall under the stupid/inconsiderate players clause). I had to earn my own gil, you can earn yours. if you were in my Linkshell, thats a different story, but you do NOT ask strangers for money.

I think most players feel the same way on both subjects (althought not as extreem in my beggar hatred)

[Cade]

I save people all the time from monsters, especially new players, though usually only the ones that call for help, otherwise I'm not aware that they need help.


...props to Hailie on Midgardsormr. She's this high level white mage that seems to hang around Valkurm dunes alot, and raises anybody that asks. Nearly everybody knows of her, and everybody loves her. :biggrin: ...well i do anyway.

[SmartieKjm]

well i never once begged for money.

and i have given out more then 10,000gil to newer players...just gil...not including the weapons,worldpasses,etc.

just to get them going in the right direction...did anyone give me anything like that? no...i earned every penny i have...

if i have the gil why not spare some people some of it....if that same person keeps coming back and asking for money,etc then it becomes a problem...but a few thousand gil starter money just to get a newer player on their feet i don't see any problem with.

also have helped people with missions...answering questions,etc,etc,etc

and always...always..go out of my way to help someone running from a beastmen...i will stop what im doing at all costs if i can save him....one because i don't want to the beastmen to add a kill to their bragging ranks...i consider them enemy and will stop them at all costs [in my roleplaying hehe] and two because that is my brother in the kingdom [also roleplaying aspect]

i just want to point this stuff out...so people dont get the wrong impression and think i am just sitting there begging people for help....i rarely ever ask for help or bother anyone...i am mainly speaking for what i see happen to other people alot of times and occasionally me with my lower ranked character.

and i asked for money one time...10gil so i could post a worldpass on this forum..and noone would give it to me..so i went out and got it myself.

i don't want to pat myself on the back or have a cookie or anything lol...i just want to point out im not standing there begging for stuff and begging for people to help me.

[Mulkosaur]

Big thing is the game is new and alot of people haven't played a online game before. While my views are let us just say a bit cynical as you can tell from other posts things really will get better and more fluid over time.

Just wish OOR was universally known so I could heal people with my might 19 point heal hehe.

[wake]

I have had quite a good experience with people in-game. I took on something too difficult for me, so as someone ran by, I opened up the monster for help. He came, just as I was casting my 2-hour ability, so my HP was fully restored, but he (Aniker) didn't just leave. Aniker kindly waited to see if I needed help, which was very fortunate, because I did ;P And towards the end Evode cam and waited to see if I would still need help to. So thank you much to both Aniker and Evode. But I have found the generally, people are friendly and helpful, so I wouldn't get the thought nobody is willing to help. Give people a little while to get used to the whole MMORPG experience, and people will probably find themselves in a similar experience, and want to return the favor.

[Chanchai]

I think alot of people are helpful but alot are busy too and might not have the time to help you with a mission or something that takes alot of time.

But just standing around when someone is being chased is kind of mean.. if your a high level player at least..

But everytime someone asks for help i try my very best to help
And i have saved a couple of people with Provoke and when i tryed on whm a little i saved some more people.

And yesterday.. me and 11 other people wanted to do mission 4 but we were all like 10-14 in level the most of us and the cave you need to enter is HARD at that level.. but a level 65whm helped us out.. he even raised me after i was killed by a ghoul (and i was killed because i used provoke and saved somebody else :D)

And if someone ask for money i usually either give them a really small amount for like a Lauan shield, or tell them a few tips on how to earn money, and the later is much better in my opinion cause if they learn how to earn money they wont ask anymore.

Well these are my experiences, i have been helped and i have helped, i hope you have some better luck in the future if your being chased by a mob :D

[SmartieKjm]

thats cool.....good to see there are people out there helping others.

:)

some of you may be right...i also have to look in the other persons shoes...maybe he had a friend who had to go to sleep soon and had to hurry and get to them so they could play for a bit..

or another person was checking map or soemthing else.

there are other reasons just then the person won't help..i realize that..but sometimes people just choose not to help.

but it sounds like there are a bunch of people out there helping...so thats cool.

[EdLev]

I've had mostly good experiences with other players helping me out, and I try to be the same. I've been randomly Cured and Protected more times than I can count (hehe), and most of the times I call for help near someone they will try their best to get the monster off me.
I've also found that sometimes when people seem to "just stand there" is actually because it's very hard to cast or attack a target running (it's happened to me trying to get a Yagudo off a lvl 5 thief :sweat: ) and most of the time they will apologize if they couldn't heal me or attack the monster in time.

[zywack]

**** Long, pointless rant warning ****

I agree too that people are far more helpful that I have ever seen in any online game...

About helping others, I always do my best. I also helped two persons doing Mission 1, and one other person Mission 2. Still... Now that I am higher level (not high, just higher), I understand better why many people don't stop to help.

Travelling takes a long time. So does making a group... So if your group is in, say... Tahrongi Canyon and that you are in West Sarubaruta, your group has to wait for you to get there. It takes at least ten minutes to go from one another, and that is a relatively short distance. My group is waiting there for me, and ten minutes is a long time for most "random" groups. It took us around an hour and an half to create this party: No one wants to wait longer. If I stop to help people four times in the trip, it will take me twice the time to reach my group... So by the time I get there, some will so annoyed that they will leave, and the group will disband. So there it goes again for another hour of group making, but I know that with the time I have left for the night, it wouldn't be worth it anymore...

The best compromise I found is that when running and that I see someone fighting, I'll check the health of the monster and the character. If the character appears to be losing, I'll stop and offer them to call for help if they need it. If they accept or not, the second the monster is dead, I'll do a /wave and run off.
If someone runs with something following him and that it doesn't appear to be pulling a monster, I always do F8,ctrl-c... If I know that attacking it isn't instant death, I'll shoot an arrow at the monster. If the character runs out of reach of my arrow, I'll give a say to stop so I can help them. If they don't stop... I'll leave them on their own. Fortunately, that doesn't happen very often. If I happen to be soloing then or not being in an hurry (like being the one to wait for the group), then I'll run after them for what it's worth and risk my life for them...

What is annoying also is when someone runs past you and you are resting. An instant after, you see a Yagudo chasing him/her. You stand up to help, but by the time the animation is over, the monster is out of arrow reach. You run after them and they die, and then they curse at you for not helping.

It's in my nature to help when I can so I always will, but I also understand when they run past without giving a second glance. And for those who begs for money... Your starting equipment is good enough for a few levels, at the least. Having bronze equipment before knowing how to move your character doesn't help any. Helping someone to learn, I'll gladly do. Giving them an antidote when they are poisoned, I'll gladly do. Giving them money, I won't do. It doesn't help them learn how to survive in that world... Explaining them how signet works, and how to sell some of their crystals at the auction does help them in finding their own stable source of income, however.

[Rico]

I help people all the time I save them from monsters or teach them the macros I'll do something to help somone because your repersent a kingdom and if your players suck then the kingdom sucks in Midgard people seems to help each other out I see this alot in San O'doira and Bastok I haven't stayed in Windurst that long to see. But its good to teach somone something makes you feel happy inside :)

[Sabre]

Don't lose all faith Smartie. I've been helped many times when I'm in need. I've been cured, protected, and been given info by strangers. I make it an effort to help others when I can. I pulled a lizard in S. Gustaburg off of a second Taru that aggroed him (which was going to kill him), and he in turn gave me a sword I couldn't find in the AH. Part of the fun of this game is to be able to help others, not just to level up.

I went from knowing absolutely no one on my server, to having close to 10 friends on my list in a little over 2 weeks.

[Sanhime]

Originally posted by SmartieKjm
how i see it...as we are a team in the kingdom...it is us against the world...us against the beastmen and us against the other kingdoms.

that leads me to think we should help one another...if someone is running from a monster and you can take the monster...save the person...that is a victory for the kingdom...so the beastmen don't get a kill added to their ranks....also your helping your fellow mate out.

or if a lower player needs a little gil for a decent weapon...so he can shed some beastman blood...give him some gil to get him started..so he can help slay the beastmen.

this is how i thought it should be....but i have received minimal help in my personal journey....i will be running from a monster who attacked me from behind..and higher level players will run right past and not even lend a hand...or a few times i was attacked by a group of tough monsters.....and a whole group of people just sat and watched me die...instead of jumped in to help.

or asked for help on a mission and people just ran by...instead i end up dead because i had to go alone.

i have had many occasions such as this.....there also have been a few people who have helped me...but alot have not.

am i being too naive thinking people should help others out....is this not how the kingdom works? is it ever man for himself?


"Seek, and thou shall find."

You cannot "expect" help. You have to be pro-active in seeking help, as well as be pro-active in helping others.

Doing so will earn you respect and name-recognition, and most importantly, friendship among your peers.

On caitsith, there are lots of friendly and helpful people, especially the Japanese players. I spend 90% of the time just helping others including "strangers", and I also try to group people up within my Friendlist so more people can pro-actively know each other thus creating a giant web/network of active peers. I normally maintain a Friendlist of about 30 people...and yes, I am very active with of them ^_^*. Sorry for my short lack of humbleness there.

[SmartieKjm]

i completely understand alot of these posts....and i know there is a good number of people helping out there.


really what inspired me to write this post was i was frustrated because like in a row..

i was at the king ranpauure tomb doing the "bat hunt quest" and all of a sidden like 5 skeletons spawned and just started attacking me all out....i used mighty strikes to at least hold my own....and there is a group of like 6 people just standing there looking at me....im sitting there getting pounded on fighting for my life..and they are just standing there....

now if that was me...i would of helped that one person being "jumped" by all these skeletons....luckily literally seconds before this i got the item i needed...so i didn't have to go all the way back and just lost experience points...but still..thats not the issue.

then the very next time i went out....i am sitting there healing...and what do you know something starts hitting me from behind...and i turn around and what do you know another skelton...i dont have enough health to fight it as i just got done fighting a tough battle..so i run...and run...and run....one person passes me...im shouting "help me" "get this thing off me"....2 person passes me......3 person.....4 person....and i die..not one person helps.

so right after this i make this post...cuz i was pretty frustrated that none of these people lent me a helping hand...when if i was in their shoes i would of helped.

but i know there are lots of people who do help...i have received help and given help..and for the most part ff is a very friendly gaming enironment.

[Vestas]

Two things, first you have to call for help (ctrl-g) after you hit a mob or no one can help you. That's the anti-kill stealing code at work. You may need help but they can't get the mob off you because they aren't allowed to attack it. If I see someone running from a mob with a purple name I don't even try to help, because I can't.

Second, running away is the main reason people can't help you. They run at the same speed as you, once you and the mob are past them they can't catch up so long as you keep running, which means they can't hit the mob or heal you etc. because of range problems.

As for standing there and getting pummeled while no one helps this can happen for two reasons, the aforementioned failure to call for help using the in game help call or the simple fact that many times when I have "helped" someone I thought was in need, I got yelled at for taking their extra mobs. Some people are afraid to step in because they don't know what you intended.

With all that said, I have had many people help me and I help those whom I can. In the long run though there are just as many people who won't help as there are those who will. Which you run into more frequently is mostly chance :( The net result is that even though this is a MMORPG with lots of real people, you need to remember you have to rely on #1, yourself, first, "expecting" other people to help may lead to dissapointment.

[SmartieKjm]

first you have to call for help (ctrl-g) after you hit a mob or no one can help you.

i do always hit control+g...but that isn't an issue if soemthing attacks you..someone can't help only if you are locked onto the target..if somehting comes up from behind and hits you anyone can attack it...as long as i don't lock onto it.

or if i disengage and start running anyone can attack.


and the whole running thing is way overplayed....many many times i have used provoke,a spell...or something from a distance to get the monster off of a running character.

or i will shout to him "stop ill get the monster" and he stops so i can get it off him....that whole running so a person cant catch you is not as accurate as some are making it to be.

As for standing there and getting pummeled while no one helps this can happen for two reasons, the aforementioned failure to call for help using the in game help call or the simple fact that many times when I have "helped" someone I thought was in need, I got yelled at for taking their extra mobs. Some people are afraid to step in because they don't know what you intended.

well getting my butt handed to me by 6 skeletons or how ever many...is a sure sign that i need help..ehe...and they had enough people to help...i can only target 1 skelton at a time so there was about 5 more free for others to provoke,attack,cast magic on...somehting...anything.

but there could of been a reason...maybe they just got done fighting a battle and had little health...who knows....it doesn't bother me as much now as it did then....i was sort of "hot" from the moment when i wrote the post

[David_h125]

If there are 3+ mobs attacking you, and only 1 is targetted, I am not going even touch the other 2 even if I have a group.

A) You don't know if they are high level or not, even if they are higher level than you, a even matched mob is a problem, not to mention 2, or 3+ of them.

B) If they are not high levels, the group is probably hunting tough+ mobs for good exp. Not every group can handle 2+ tough/very tough/Incredibly tough mobs at once.

C) There are ** 3 ** kingdoms, not every player is from the same as you. Therefore they can careless about you. I am from windurst, if I go to bastok and someone died, I can careless, especially when PvP comes out. Items are sold in each town depending on what place the nation is in conquest.

D) I am not going to risk my life on a tough/even matched mob on someone I don't know. Why should I? Chances are we'll both die, instead of 1 person (you) die, now 2 people die.

If you can not handle the areas for the quest that you needed, don't go do the quest.

[Aghama]

Originally posted by SmartieKjm

i was at the king ranpauure tomb doing the "bat hunt quest" and all of a sidden like 5 skeletons spawned and just started attacking me all out....i used mighty strikes to at least hold my own....and there is a group of like 6 people just standing there looking at me....im sitting there getting pounded on fighting for my life..and they are just standing there....

now if that was me...i would of helped that one person being "jumped" by all these skeletons....luckily literally seconds before this i got the item i needed...so i didn't have to go all the way back and just lost experience points...but still..thats not the issue.
What level was that party? I help when it's prudent, but if healing someone is just going to make the monsters aggro on me and kill us both I'm not about to do it. I've been cusssed out twice so far because of this...I would /tell them and explain why I didn't help but received no reply both times.

Edit: But unlike the guy above, I never take nationality into account. I party with other nations all the time, while there's some competition it shouldn't be that cutthroat.

[SmartieKjm]

i don't know their levels...but the skeltons are not really hard....i took like 2 of them out myself using mighty strikes...but 6 of them is just too much for me to handle.

but like i said...that was sometime ago....it is all forgotten now..i realize it is different when you are in a group,etc...you cant always help everyone,,,and your in a group so you have to worry abour your group..hard to help everyone in trouble.

so i understand alot more and it really doesn't bother me anymore if someone can't help me at times...

im still learning alot about the game hehe..i realize now someone cant help everytime your in trouble..sometimes you just gotta take it on the chin and regroup.

:)