Yokodama...need some expert advice

[zappem2000]

I am having intermittent success with yokodama...would appreciate if anyone here can shed some light.

This is the setup i am usually doing:

Monster
|
Tanker---THF

I usually try to face the tanker and check if i can hit the monster. Sometimes i can, sometimes not. Those times in which i can hit the monster, yokodama usually works nicely.

Questions:

1. Is the setup above the proper way to do it?
2. Is there a certain range i have to stand away from the tanker for it to work 100%?
3. I have seen some pple behind the tanker diagonally like this:

Monster
|
Tanker
/
THF

[cannot get the tab spacing to work ^^;]

How to do this? The times i tried, i just get a normal hit.

Thanks in advance for answers...

[kanomjeeb]

Here is what i discussed with Jei and I have been doing this successfully at least 95% (unless sometimes the stupid tank stand 25 miles away from the enemy).

There are 2 basic things of doing yokodama succesfully:

1. you must not stand in front of enemy.

2. you must be in the same line as tank.

the yellow area in the picture is where you supposed to stand. (forgive me that is the best picture i can draw ^^')

here is what to do:

1. make a macro /target <st>

2. when you are in attack mode and wanna do yokodama, you click the macro so it will let you choose a target.

3. you move your cursor to your tank(don't click anything yet, just move the cursor to him) now your target box will be your tank but you will still be attacking the monster.

4. lock the tank (using healing key).

5. move to the yellow area in my awesomely drawn picture ^^v (make sure that you are not in the green area, if you still fail, try to move farther from tank). at this point, while you lock the tank, you can keep moving and even do yokodama while you running.

6. now, keep clickling the cancle button till you back to normal attack mode so you can use macro (dont move at this point or you will lose the position).

7. click your fuidama macro.. and.. bang here you go.

you stand in the yellow area, you pass the not being in the front of enemy requirement.

you lock tank, you pass the being in the same line as tank requirement.

it will be really annoying and hard at first but once you get used to it, its sooo ez (you can ask beany, i trained him with a tree in batalia.. lol)

another thing is, most thf like to fuidama a bit befoer the fight (before pulling) so he/she can use fuidama 2 or more times.

in this case, if you already do fuidama before the fight starts, do not enter attack mode yet, but target tank using your arrow key.

Lock him, get position, and use your left, right arrow or gamepad to target the enemy and enter attackmode(don't move after entering attack mode).

note: if monster run to mages while you got your position, keep the tank locked and stand far from enemy (so you wont lose your fuidama) wait till tank get the monster back and you run in.


this is the best i can explain.. and sorry for my bad english.. i am not a native speaker.

[kanomjeeb]

Is there a certain range i have to stand away from the tanker for it to work 100%?

best position is the farthest distance from the tank you can stay and still hit, so you can just move in and out to find the spot.

I attached another pic, hope is more clear that the first one

both pattern in this pictuer works nicely.. just make sure you can still hit the monster(the position in the picture maybe too far.. i just wanna make it clear that you should stand as far as possible and not to be in the green area).

yokodama doesnt mean you have to make it 90 degrees, i always do it like 120 or whatever.

[kanomjeeb]

sorry i forgot to attach another pic T.T

‚²‚ß‚ñ‚È‚³‚¢?G?G

[zappem2000]

Wow, tks a lot for the super detailed explaination! I will definately go back and try this. I have not used target <st> function b4 so i think i can figure out the target box thingy.

Thanks once again...and your english is v good!

[RadioClash]

o.o whats yokodama thinger and fuidama in english?

[Beany]

Hey Jeeb! That tree would've been SO dead if he was a monster! :biggrin:

Seriously though, I'm not sure the translations for yokodama and fuidama. Fuiuchi I'm guessing is Backstab or Back Attack, and Damashiuchi is Deceive Attack? Fuidama is just a combination of the two words, while Yokodama is probably Side Deceive Attack or something like that.

[RadioClash]

Ok, so Sneak Attack = back attack(cause you can't hit him from the front or else it won't get you that critical)

I'm guessin the other is Decieve then

[John Doe III]

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=178915 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: GOOD DRAWING! lol

[l0rdza0n]

best. drawing. ever. :thumbsup: seriously Jeeb . ) not making fun of it, im really impressed :handsdown :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Nameless]

Too complicated for my little mind >_<. I have one question, why do you use Fuidama? I though it was just decieve attack so where does Fuidama come in? Sorry for my probably obvious answer >_<.

[kanomjeeb]

why do you use Fuidama?

Did you mean "why do you use Yokodama?" ^^?

If so, the reasons are like...

- you can choose which tank you want the enemy to be stuck on. Lets say you have pld ranger and thf(you) in your pt, if you can't do yokodama, that means you have to do fuidama behind ranger? so why do you have to have a pld cuz the enemy wont be hitting him (my yokodama viperbite normally does around 550 to700 damage + 200 to 400 from renkei .. very enuf to hold the monster with tank the whole fight), and the ranger would be dead.

- you dont need to worry when the enemy keeps turning face. When doing normal fuidama, If your friend whom you are doing fuidama behind gets aggro somehow (happens quite often when you doing fuidama behind 2 hander like samurai dragoon drk), your fuidama = fail, but if you do yokodama, just get the position and chitchat in LS ^^v

- when you go hunting something with your friend (my lv62 pld helped me kill dark spark, we had pld thf(me) mage), yokodama make it possible to dish out your full damage unless you wanna do fuidama behind the mage ^^~



But if your question is really "why do you use Fuidama?", hmm cuz its our ability and does a big chunk of damage.

[Nameless]

Originally posted by kanomjeeb


6. now, keep clickling the cancle button till you back to normal attack mode so you can use macro (dont move at this point or you will lose the position).

7. click your fuidama macro.. and.. bang here you go.

you stand in the yellow area, you pass the not being in the front of enemy requirement.

you lock tank, you pass the being in the same line as tank requirement.

it will be really annoying and hard at first but once you get used to it, its sooo ez (you can ask beany, i trained him with a tree in batalia.. lol)

another thing is, most thf like to fuidama a bit befoer the fight (before pulling) so he/she can use fuidama 2 or more times.

in this case, if you already do fuidama before the fight starts, do not enter attack mode yet, but target tank using your arrow key.

Lock him, get position, and use your left, right arrow or gamepad to target the enemy and enter attackmode(don't move after entering attack mode).

note: if monster run to mages while you got your position, keep the tank locked and stand far from enemy (so you wont lose your fuidama) wait till tank get the monster back and you run in.


this is the best i can explain.. and sorry for my bad english.. i am not a native speaker.

You said Fuidama, that's where my question came from, I think I misread though or something. Also how would you do Fuidama/Yokodama before a fight?

[kanomjeeb]

Hmm, I don't know if i can make this clear.

7. click your fuidama macro.. and.. bang here you go.

fuidama = sneak attack + decieving attack, we usually put em all in 1 macro.

yokodama = another way to do fuidama.

so, you will be using your fuidama macro while doing yokodama.


and the 7 steps in the first post are how to use fuidama in yokodama style ^^; (hell i am getting sick of these whateverdama thingy)


...


Also how would you do Fuidama/Yokodama before a fight?

I already posted this in the first post too :)

here ya go...


another thing is, most thf like to fuidama a bit befoer the fight (before pulling) so he/she can use fuidama 2 or more times.

in this case, if you already do fuidama before the fight starts, do not enter attack mode yet, but target tank using your arrow key.

Lock him, get position, and use your left, right arrow or gamepad to target the enemy and enter attackmode(don't move after entering attack mode).



feel free to leave any question, i will try my best to share what I know ^-^m

[Nameless]

Oooooh thanks :). One more question though, is Fuidama directly behind the tank, example: you - tank - enemy? Sorry for all the questions.

[kanomjeeb]

Normally people do fuidama this way..

Main tank-> <-Enemy <-Friend(suport tank) <-Thf

After the thf does fuidama, the enemy will usually turn its face to Friend(support tank) due to the damage the thf does and hates transfered to the Friend.

So, basically after doing first fuidama and enemy turns its face to friend, thf has to run to stay behind the main tank to do the 2nd fuidama. It will be like this..

Thf-> Main tank-> Enemy-> <-Friend(suport tank)

and keep doing this till the enemy dies.


PS. "->" is the direction that each person turns the face to.

[Nameless]

Thanks again ^_^. I have another question not pertaining to attacking, what guilds can make THF tools to pick chests, or where would I be able to buy them? You've been a big help thanks :).

[kanomjeeb]

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17320

m^^m~

[l0rdza0n]

Originally posted by kanomjeeb
Normally people do fuidama this way..

Main tank-> <-Enemy <-Friend(suport tank) <-Thf

After the thf does fuidama, the enemy will usually turn its face to Friend(support tank) due to the damage the thf does and hates transfered to the Friend.

So, basically after doing first fuidama and enemy turns its face to friend, thf has to run to stay behind the main tank to do the 2nd fuidama. It will be like this..

Thf-> Main tank-> Enemy-> <-Friend(suport tank)

and keep doing this till the enemy dies.


PS. "->" is the direction that each person turns the face to.

that's the way i do it too.. but i want to say thank you.. i will try out your side technique.. the problem with the normal fuidama is that sometimes.. tanks like to stand in front of the enemy so no one's behind it and i gotta use the whm or blm as my hate target :thumbsup: jk mages!!! (hides)

. ) also sometimes the mob turns in an innoportune moment if u got 2 paladins in the pt.. that like to trade provokes :P your side thingie may help cuz it doesnt matter which way the mob is facing.. the thief is striking from the side!

thanks again, and your drawing is my favorite . ) tis the best :handsdown (why? it all boils down to details.. like the growling smiley's in the first pic, good job!!!)

[Nameless]

w00t, thanks again :biggrin:.

[Beany]

I did fuidama behind a BRD once :sweat: I was trying to do Yokodama next to a PLD, and for some reason the brd got right inbetween us to do a Ballad before my attack went off. :biggrin:

[Cri]

I have a question. If u use yokomoto or what ever doesnt it use tp?(isnt it like sneak attack+feint attack). Also doesnt it have a cool down time? How exactly does this work?

[Beany]

Yokodama = Sneak Attack + Deceive Attack, but attacking from the side of a tank instead of directly behind him.

There is the 1 min. cooldown time for each ability. They're exactly like other Job Abilities; You don't lose TP when you activate them.

[Nameless]

Is there a good macro for this?

Like;

/Fuidama
/attack, or WS?

[Jinroh]

i find to make yokodama work, u have to be locked on to ur tank or whoever u want hate transferred to(Im succesful this way at least).

fuidama macro is

/ws "Sneak Attack" <me>
/wait 2
/ws "Trick Attack" <me>

then u can add any lines ( ws, dialogue emote etc.)

[Mithrankittycat]

Pre-emptive attack on aggro monster:
1. Fuidama macro 30 or so seconds before starting fight.
2. Engage monster in auto-attack from a distance.
3. Switch target macro.
4. F2, F3, F4, F5, or F6 to target tank.
5. * to lock onto tank.
6. Move into position out of monster and paladin's cones of sight. Best to be as far away as possible while still being able to hit monster with auto-attack.


In-battle:
1. Switch target macro.
2. F2, F3, F4, F5, or F6 to target tank.
3. * to lock onto tank.
4. Move into position out of monster and paladin's cones of sight. Best to be as far away as possible while still being able to hit monster with auto-attack.
5. Stay still until you do your sadistic damage. Heck, stay still the rest of the fight if the monster doesn't run and you don't get trained.
6. * to unlock from tank.
7. Esc to exit switch target mode.
8. Fuidama macro with or without weapon skill.


Switch target macro:
/target <st>

Plain Fuidama/Yokodama macro:
/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/wait 2
/ja "Trick Attack" <me>
/wait 20
/wait 20
/echo Fuidama ready in 18 seconds

Weapon skill and Fuidama/Yokodama macro:
/p Starting Yokodama and Weapon skill of your choice
/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/wait 2
/ja "Trick Attack" <me>
/wait 2
/ws "Weapon skill of your choice"

[Beany]

Kittycat pretty much said it all right there :biggrin:

I do have a quick question about the /echo command. Namely, what does it do? :confused:

I've noticed that when I use my Fuidama macro, if at any time I use another macro, it cancels the /party countdown message of my Fuidama macro. What's the difference between doing /party Fuidama ready in 20 seconds and /echo (same sentence)?

[Mithrankittycat]

Using another macro seems to interrupt any other macro you've used that has a /wait in it.

/echo shows the message only to yourself. It's good for skills like Boost that don't need to be spammed to your party.

[Beany]

Would my Fuidama "Fuidama ready! Meat Shields, line up! d(>_<)b" be considered spamming the party? :biggrin: Joking, already know the answer to that one. =P

[nohopeless]

I've tried to follow the diagram as much as possible and I'm still only getting mediocore results...

from what I understand
it's
Tank < > Monster
..........| \
.........Thief
the < would represent the cones of vision
and the | \ means the space where a thf can stand to do it sucessfully

I'm guessing that the reason it's good to be as far as possible is to make sure that you're out of sight for mother tank and monster? If so, then how big are these cones?

Another thing I don't understand is why is it so important to lock onto the tank first, and then move into position?

what I've found that work for me the most is

Thf<Sneak Attack Buddy<Monster< >Provoker

[DarkHawk]

I think you have the cone wrong. i belive it should be-

Tank<>monster
......../|
....thief

you should be a step or so behind the tank. Your diagram has you standing infront of him. That may be the problem. But thats only a guess, not really shure.

[kanomjeeb]

the reason why you have to keep the tank locked is to satify the requirement of damauchi(deceive).

the requirement is, you have to stand behind a friend. Locking tank helps you the be in the same line as your friend which the game algorithm will consider this as standing behind someone.

[Jei]

use japanese encode

?›?¨X
?ª
??

X is the enemy
?› is your tank
?? is the THF
arrows represents the direction to face at.

[Awntawn]

After some experimenting, it seems there are these criteria: One, you must be behind the tank, Two you must be out of the line of sight of the monster, and Three the tank must be in your line of sight. This is why locking onto the tank makes it so much easier to yokodama :biggrin:

[Otaku~gamer]

On anothe note when trying yokodama.. if the tank your trying to lock on moves around a lot while fighting which most ppl do switch their position once or twice during a fight. Feel free to put him/her in their place and tell them not to move. I deal with this all the time :(


A little off topic here since the NM link on this site doesn't work on my cpu for some reason.

Where is that sophia NM I keep hearing about that drops that sweet sweet -15hp +3agi +3dex helmet (looks like a beetle wing)I saw in the auction house for 200k gil? If i can nab this puppy ill have total of +16 dex on me, dunno if thats still good or not

[voodoo]

Valkurm Emperor drops that headpiece

[John Doe III]

Originally posted by Otaku~gamer
Where is that sophia NM I keep hearing about that drops that sweet sweet -15hp +3agi +3dex helmet (looks like a beetle wing)I saw in the auction house for 200k gil? If i can nab this puppy ill have total of +16 dex on me, dunno if thats still good or not

If your still 41, I think that's the best DEX you can get at the time and AGI to.

[nohopeless]

thanks guys, I'm having much better sucess rate now
locking on the tank definately helps

I still have trouble doing yokodama from the side because of those cones, but from behind the tank when the monster isn't looking, I can do pretty well.

one thing that has been brought to my attention though
Right now I'm a level 33 thief, I'm doing about 180 to 250 with viperbite depending on the enemy, my question is if that's average. I have 46dex and am a hume.

another thing I want to ask is, after I do my attack, the monster turns around and attacks my tank, but after one or two hits, the hate is gone. Is there anything I can do to keep the hate onto the tank while my job abilty is recharing?

[Beany]

Your damage is average; Don't worry, you'll start to do more as you progress. :biggrin:

About keeping the hate on the tank, they only thing I can recommend is doing Back/Deceive Attack a little bit before you or someone else pulls a monster. If you time it right, you can do two Back/Deceive attacks back to back or within 10-20 seconds of each other.

[Mithrankittycat]

One thing I remembered: Tell your tank to stay face-to-face with the monster up close and avoid moving unnecessarily.

A moving tank makes yokodama setup too difficult. Having the monster close to the tank gives you the largest area to be successful.

[Cri]

OH MY HOLY LORD ITS BERRY IN THE BACKGROUND!!!! Pops a berry in my mouth.

[Zynk]

I have tryed doing this an I dont understand it. I wish I had someone to show me how "ingame" or that I could talk to them over msn or aim. I'll keep reading this an try an understand it :(

[John Doe III]

Originally posted by Zynk
I have tryed doing this an I dont understand it. I wish I had someone to show me how "ingame" or that I could talk to them over msn or aim. I'll keep reading this an try an understand it :(

If you can wait altitle bit longer..I'll take an in-game picture of how you should stand and so forth. <---I'm not in the beta.

[Zynk]

Well I think I'll just wait an get someone to show me in retail but if you want to take the time out an show me thats fine. :) If you do thanks a lot for the help. :thumbsup:

[Bubba]

Thanks for the tips on how to do fuidama :) I still have trouble doing yokodama. I play using a japanese PS2. Could some tell me how to "lock on" the tank (commands for locking on) using the PS2 controller? I think Jeeb mentioned using the healing key. (uh, what exactly is this key :confused: )

Thank you in advance :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown

[kanomjeeb]

I think Jeeb mentioned using the healing key
I play ffxi on PC so I don't know if i am going to answer your question.

Anyway, the healing key I mentioned is the button for sitting which you will sit when pressing this button (if you dont have a thing targeted, but if you are targeting someone, you will lock him/her instead).

Gotta let PS2 players help on this I guess.

[Mithrankittycat]

Sexy cat yokodama (http://kittycat.mg5.org/screenshots/pol%202003-10-06%2023-21-33-20.JPG)
Team is positioned so that even if the monster turns, I still get sneak+trick attack bonus.

[kanomjeeb]

Mithrankittycat,

I just noticed that you have the same face as me ^^;

[Mithrankittycat]

We're cookiecutters too =;_;=
Small, medium, or large? Kittycat is large beastly 5' mithra.

[Aldo]

holy shit, what is your GFX card, I wish mine played that well :(

Oh on another note, in regards to keeping hate. I don't know if its THF related but any ideas on how to keep hate on tank for the "forgotton" melee, (ie, melee doing crap damage so he can link with the THFs massive damage WS). I was in 2 pts where the mages kept getting hate for some reason, setup was: WAR/DRK/THF/SMN/RDM/BRD. And SMN kept getting hate, actually ended up dying and every time we had to renkei WAR would lose hate and dama would get messed up. I tried busting taunt macro after my WS (It was Vorpal Scythe - Dancing) thinking this would help but I died in like 2 seconds :sweat: Any ideas on what to do in those PT situations where the damn monster turns its head after the WS before THF yokodamas.

[zywack]

I have one question on the subject...

The macro used there has Sneak Attack, Wait 2, Trick Attack

My question is, do these abilities stack? In other words, is it:
Prepare Sneak attack.
Prepare Trick attack.
Both goes off at once, causing the hate of the sneak to go in the Trick Attack part.

or is it simply:
Prepare sneak attack.
Do sneak attack.
Prepare trick attack.
Do trick attack.
?

[kanomjeeb]

They do stack as long as you don't hit the monster after you activate sneak attack. I mean, if you do it manually, click sneak att, hit monster, then click trick att, of course in this case the sneak att would go off before the trick att is activated.

however, if you put em in a macro like u said(sneak, wait 2, trick), they will always stack.

I think square made macro to be like 1 object that your normal att won't be effected.

let say you put this:

/ja sneak <t>
/wait 2
/ja trick <t>
/wait 2
/ws dancing edges <t>

once you hit the macro, your normal hit wont be effected by the macro if it goes off during the macro, but your ws will be cuz its in the macro at the last line.

so if you make this:
/ja sneak <t>
/wait 2
/ja trick <t>

you can make sure that your next hit after macro ends will be full sneak+trick attack.

there is a case though. avoid hitting other macro while the sneak+trick macro is being activated cuz that sometimes cancles your sneak+trick macro(you may get only sneak att if you press other macro at the middle).

[Bubba]

Thanks to Jeeb, everyone on this post (and a certain taru thief that I am paired with;) ) I can do yokodama consistently :spin: Another question for you master thieves: what determines how much damage you do with fuidama/yokodama? I noticed that I can do between 120-270 (without ws lvl 37 thief) on the same type of monster. Is it related to the distance between you and tank or monster? Thanks again! :) :)