2H Katana vs Spear

[Sirius Black]

What do you think Nodachi(or anyone else)? Which one do you like more. I personally prefer swords, but everyone is now saying that SAMs should have a spear. This makes no sense, because aren't SAMs better with 2H Katanas? So shouldn't the Katana have better WS? Because I agree that Penta Thrust sounds better than Flying Swallow, Masterous Attack, Thunderous Heaven or Heat Wave. Am I mistaken are all of those actually really bad ass abilities. Also, in another post (the one where you showed the SAM only spear) you said the Katana really sucks when it misses, and since it's the SAMs "main Weapon" isn't this some proof that THF is just as good a sub for DMG dealing as WAR because of his uped DEX and AGI?

[doublet83]

I remember someone saying samurai have a 250 katana weapon skill that hasn't been unlocked yet. It does five hits like penta thrust. If true, this should be a plus for the katana. I want to use katana too, because they're just cooler.

[Heartsclaw]

I plan to start the game as a Warrior and use a Spear. That way When I switch to Samurai or Dragoon my WS will be good because both are good at using Spears. And Penta Thrust is pretty wicked. You can develop both of them, too. That's what i'm going to do.

[Sirius Black]

Originally posted by Heartsclaw
I plan to start the game as a Warrior and use a Spear. That way When I switch to Samurai or Dragoon my WS will be good because both are good at using Spears. And Penta Thrust is pretty wicked. You can develop both of them, too. That's what i'm going to do.

See a DRG/WAR would definately kick ass esp. it you already lvl'd the spear because the spear IS the DRG's A weapon. However, it is not a SAM's A Weapon the Katana is. Which esentially means the spear will never be as good as the Katana. If SAM has a 5 hit no matter what lvl I'm sold. DRG/WAR would kick ass too though between Penta and High Jump, I think you would be more useful than any DRK not to even mention the Wyvern.... mmm... Dragoon. Damn me and my love of Swords and Samurais.

[Rico]

What is Nodachi the cool Samurai guy or something I never had a topic mainly to me ;_; O well... it depends how you want it to be but I recomend Katanas

[Sirius Black]

Don't feel bad, it's just half of the purpous behind this post was that I wanted to hear his opinion on the SAM/THF being better than the SAM/WAR with their main weapon. Really just because in my other post he kept telling me that WARRIOR was the best no matter what. Really it's just I respect his opinion and since i've choosen SAM/THF I was just surious to if he thought ths made enough of a difference to tilt the tides in my favor over the Warriors.... That and I wanted to know why everyon was choosing that weapon instead? It's like a master Thief with a 2H Staff over a Dagger.

[Nodachi]

Hmm this is kinda a touch topic. If you're a level 51 samurai who has penta, great. Your party may even ask you to ignore renkeis and just keep doing as many pentas as possible. (the main problem i see with subbing thief for samurai with penta is . . . you won't have it as a WS ability lol. I don't want to confuse people on the whole sub-job topic anymore but there are certain WS which require a job to be subd in order to be able to have it. For penta you must either have DRG or WAR subd in order to use it. For dancing edge (thieves big I KEEL YOU WS. . . )you must have your dagger at the appropreate level and you must either have thief as your main or as your sub.

As far as SAM WS with 2H katana. They can be pretty strong versus certain enemies but despite how strong they can be, the Katana is a very renkeiable weapon - there will almost always be a good renkei available when Katana is in the mix. Even if the SAM's WS may be the weakest of the renkei'ing WS's in the party - it will setup for a good renkei and a good magic blast to finish it off. And yes, as doublet83 said, the level 250 WS that samurai get with their 2H katana frikkin pwns lol. It's already been unlocked however. I happned to see the mid part of it in Oz the other day (wish i saw the whole thing up close) but from others discriptions of it. " the sword starts to glow and the samurai actually almost seems to jump up and down while striking" it, like doublet83 said again, lands 5 hits just like penta. The main difference is the element attatched to this WS is light.

if any questions remain or wern't answered just PM if you want a quicker response. If not, post here and i'll eventually get to it lol.

[Rurouni_Kenshin]

katanas are samurais main weapons u dont see samurais walking around with spears thats y there the best with 2h katanas only. and i would love to see that 5 hit combo too!

[Nodachi]

lol i'd say half of the level 50 + samurai walk around with spears actually.

[Sirius Black]

Originally posted by Nodachi
lol i'd say half of the level 50 + samurai walk around with spears actually.

Not only that, but from what I understand a lot of PTs would rather see Penta over and over than even bother with Renkei.

[Rent-A-Hamster]

/cheer pentathrust

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the dagger WS dancing edge an EX2 type WS? As in your main job has to be thief?

[Nodachi]

Nah close - just has to be subd - i've now seen PLD and WAR do it during NM hunting. Believe me - it is seksy x3 lol.

[Guest]

Would a Dragoon/Samuri be a good mix?Or would it b better if it was Dragoon/Warrior?im lookin to deal as much damage as i can with a mithra.Thank you for takin the time to read this post. :)

[Sirius Black]

They would both be good combos, the SAM would of course give you the TP gains to do Penta over and over, but I think WAR would be a more balanced an reliable sub. As you would have Berserk and Defender (depending on what you need) plus passive attack and defense. Since you can't start as a DRG or SAM though, you may as well lv the WAR anyway. And then at a lv 18 get a sub for the WAR either MNK or THF probably, and then if at high lvs you feel you want to lv a second advanced job then lv SAM. However, for a pure attacker DRG/WAR > DRG/SAM as the only advantage SAM will give is TP gain which you won't get as a sub until lv 30.

[Guest]

Thanks.I was wondering cus i dont have the game yet and i wanted to know if that would b good.Cus im lookin to do a lot of damage.And i thought samuris and dragoons were the best damage dealers.Well thank you again.:spin:

[vagtark]

samurai's and dragoons are not the best damage dealers, even though they do great damage, Dark knights, rangers, and black mages are the best damage dealers so far. Dragoons and samurai fall right under them :p Now that i think about it, i do hear a few times that even warriors to more damage than samurais, not sure about dragoons though. I also heard that a level 70/ 65 Warrior/Samurai blows away a Samurai/Warrior, so i hear.

[Sirius Black]

1. Ranger - Sidewinder/Slugshot (although, can't a THF use a gun?)
2. Black Mage - Nukes
3. Dark Knight - Highest physical attack
4. Beast Master - I hear they are very overpowered
5. Summoner - Not sure, but I assume they will be strong at high lvs
6. Dragoon - Second highest physical attack
7. Samurai - Renkei masters
8. Warrior - Probably better than the Samurai but I put them below because of Samurai's TP gain.
9. Thief - Backstab + Decieve + Dancing Edge or Viper Bite (nice damage)
10. Monk - Excellent with Grapple
11. Ninja - Ninjitsu + Dual Wield + 1H Katana WS
12. Paladin - Only because they don't get any STR up
13. Red Mage - Black magic
14. White Mage - Holy
15. Bard - Requiem

[doublet83]

What, bestmaster are "very overpowered" ? I heard that the suck. Which is true?

[Nodachi]

Originally posted by vagtark
samurai's and dragoons are not the best damage dealers, even though they do great damage, Dark knights, rangers, and black mages are the best damage dealers so far. Dragoons and samurai fall right under them :p Now that i think about it, i do hear a few times that even warriors to more damage than samurais, not sure about dragoons though. I also heard that a level 70/ 65 Warrior/Samurai blows away a Samurai/Warrior, so i hear.

Actually ranger does the most physical damage in the game out of all the classes and it's not possible to be a level 70 job and have a sub job at level 65. if you're level 70 youre sub is only going to be level 35. i've seen a level 65 war with samurai subd at level 30. nothing all that special - they just get to charge TP too. it's a good combo but it can't be said it's better or worse than samurai/warrior really.

[quigebo]

in my opinion....why waste time making a samurai using penta? just make a dragoon...thats what they're meant for....and as nodachi said...yes..250 ws skill....i heard it was badass....5hit combo like penta...light attack...so if you want to use penta so much..just make a dragoon..simple as that..

[davidmmmm9]

penta, 150 ws, get around lv 50-51 for samurai, 49 for drg.
250 ws, level 65, that's a long time.

and there's a reason why samurai's use penta. it does a lot of damage and most of all the tp gained from it. With silent concentration you can do penta's almost nonstop. That's why usually when the samurai in the party has penta, they tell him to solo, otherwise he would have to wait and waste TP waiting for other party members to get TP.
And Dragoon can't do penta as many time as samurai would be able to (unless subbing sam at lv60), penta is a good thing for samurai to use.

......I just still don't have it (TT)
—¼Žè‘„-115 (TT)

and I don't think 250 is five hit WS.

[Sirius Black]

Not only that, but they have a B rating with it, which means it makes just as much sense as most of the weapons a WAR will use minus the axe. Not only that, but if they were only for DRG why is their a special SAM only spear?

[vagtark]

Originally posted by Nodachi


Actually ranger does the most physical damage in the game out of all the classes and it's not possible to be a level 70 job and have a sub job at level 65. if you're level 70 youre sub is only going to be level 35. i've seen a level 65 war with samurai subd at level 30. nothing all that special - they just get to charge TP too. it's a good combo but it can't be said it's better or worse than samurai/warrior really.

lol, i ment to type in 35, thats what happens when i type to fast.:sweat:

[Nodachi]

well said guys - and yeah that level 250 WS was a croc of shyt - i found out the other day that it was just a rumor and the WS i thought was this supposed awsome 5 hit combo was the mid point of the light WS you get at 150. .

[zsedc]

i think it's not a rumour, but a misunderstanding, 2h katana ws are numbered, the 150 ws happens to be the fifth, so it has the no. 5 in its name. The 150 ws is a 2-hit wind elemental atk. 250 ws is the 9th with paralysis effect.
see here http://jadore.jp/~ff11/job.html
Or it may be a 1h katana ws (ws lvl unknown)
see here http://dragoon.s33.xrea.com/nin-battle.html

[Razz]

Originally posted by Nodachi
Nah close - just has to be subd - i've now seen PLD and WAR do it during NM hunting. Believe me - it is seksy x3 lol.

Dancing Edge is Thief only.

[CalGore]

In the long run, what would Sams be using (aka what would they be strongest with and skills count) spear or katana? cause i think dragoon should have the spear, samurai have the katana.

[davidmmmm9]

all of you are WRONG
stop worrying about dumb things like katanas or spears, it's all about the KNIVES
no one realizes samurais can use knives, sure you don't get the good weapon skills like a thief does, sure you don't do as much damage, and there's also the fact that it's like the C weapon, but everyone knows that all the big, bad, manly damage dealers all use little knives to poke and make tiny cuts on their opponent.

Then again, I'm joking.

Here is my opinion thus far, so everyone gather around and listen because it's 5am and I'm super bored. Between 50-60, I've had other samurais in my party use a spear and do penta. Most of the time, against hard or very hard enemies, it hits 2 to maybe 4 times, resulting in low damage, and low tp received. Sure you can do it a lot, but I was still doing more damage with my katana (I still don't have spear leveled quite to penta, but it's close :sweat: ) When dragoons do penta, they usually hit about 3-5 times, higher damage because they have lances and not puny spears, not to mention better accuracy, but for some reason I still do more damage than the dragoons, I dunno, maybe it's just me and my MASSIVE (note that it's a big word) owning abilities.
After 60, dragoon no longer does penta, why? because it doesn't renkei well. They use skewer, which does about the same damage as my katana weapon skill.
In the parties I've had after 60 with dragoons, dragoons hit for more slightly more damage, but I am attacking faster (I'm using bastok cp katana, not that huge/slow level 61 katana). We gained tp at about the same speed, except that I was able to throw in extra weapon skills because of concentration and the added effect from my AF helmet.
I don't know if the difference will become bigger as I level higher, I heard the lv65 ws moonlight was alright, but not great, I'm awaiting for squenix to release the 250 ws which is supposedly 5 hits, which I must say, would probably put samurais pretty far up there {only at level 70 (-_-) } So if you're going to level spear, make sure you level both weapons, if the party wants you to use spear and you haven't leveled katana in 2 or so levels, tell them you have no spear :p Or level 70 will eventually come (in about a year) and the new weapon skill will murder all (I do have high hopes) and you wont have katana leveled, then you'll be kicking yourself, and party leaders will be kicking you out.

And I just remembered, most of the time I think that people don't invite samurai to just try to do as many weapon skills as possible, like penta (which doesn't connect to much for a renkei), but as renkei tie-ins with other jobs. The katana can connect to just about every weapon skill I think, hell, I don't even know what I can and can't connect to, the same weapon skill will go on like 2 or 3 spots on the weapon skill chart.

And on another note, I'm going to throw in my opinion about dragoons, besides their fruity purple armor, they are most known for their awesome ability JUMP.
Which when I say awesome, I mean completely LAME. Sure it's good to have a ja that does damage (still waiting for my dash and slash ability to be put in the game : / ) but if any of the other higher levels ever watched when the dragoon jumps, it seems to miss a LOT. I mean only hit maybe 1 out of 5 for the very hard enemies, and it's usually only the low jump that hits.

And I don't want any dragoon or dragoon-lovers posting telling me I'm wrong, why? Because you'll lose! Why? Because I can't sleep and I get weird when I don't sleep and if you argue with me I'll be forced to climb through your monitor with my super samurai powers and not only beat you, but take all your account info for ffxi, send all your items and gil to myself, then delete your characters.

--end of crazy-sleep deprived man talk--

[Tigre]

Ok, I am still a little confused about weapon skills, so let me try and say what I understand so far.

The more you use a weapon, the higher your skill level in that weapon. As you gain more levels in a weapon, you unlock more special abilities that you can use your TP for. Now, as far as I have been told, the level of your skill is capped by what level you are, so here is my question about starting out as warrior:

I have been told that warriors cannot use katanas, but that they can use spears. So let's say I continually use a spear throughout 30 levels of warrior, meaning that I have reached some skill level in spear. If I start as a lvl 1 samurai, will my weapon skill only equal the lvl 1 cap for it? If I use a katana, does my skill in spear slowly begin to come back as well as I level, sort of in the way that my abilities as a warrior (sub job) will? Does the same thing go for if I choose dragoon, so that all of my leveling spear will be almost for naught as I need to gain it back again by leveling dragoon?

Finally, for those wanting to be samurai's, what weapon will you use? If I understand this correctly, it seems like my best choice would be to use a spear as a warrior, then switch over to katana as samurai. That way, at any given level with samurai as my main and warrior subbed, I should be close to equal levels with spear and katana, meaning I could switch between the two at my own or the party's will?

So, how does it work?

[CalGore]

davidmmmm9, nicely said. I will take your word for it :thumbsup:

p.s. get some sleep!