Why is warrior so bad ?

[McClane]

I'm now lvl 11 warrior and I don't really know what is good about a warrior, I thought when I chose it, it was the best thing voor sword combat, but I am not sure now.

My friend is a lvl 11 red mage and well he's just as strong (if not stronger than me).

We play at the same time at the same place, both lvl 11, I have a better armor and a better sword and still I can't take a lot of monsters he can.

A red mage can get a lot of spells and a warrior can really do nothing more then hit the enemy. I wouldn't mind that if the warrior would be a stronger character than mages, but I don't see it at this moment.

Am I maybe missing something, how can a mage be equel/better then a warrior in fighting, even when the warrior has better items?

[vissione]

Once you level higher, the difference will be much more aparent.

You've got taunt, he doesn't, which means you can use your defense to protect him and the others. You also will get berserk at lvl 15, that will increase your attack power by quite a lot. As your RDM friend levels along you, he'll soon be forced to lay off the sword whacking since he'll be getting better magic and his STR won't be as high as yours.

When you get your subjob you'll see that STR gap widen even more, since most likely your RDM friend will sub a mage job. (He has to at higher levels since /WAR is only effective till 20ish.)

[dragoon]

Don't worry about that i to early to judge now wait to you get to lv. 20 to judge

Warrior have a mighty good def. and they can use a whole section of weapon to use from and along with there good attack don't forget taunt so you can protect anybody that need protection

[GearType2]

I was under the impression that 1h and 2h axes were a warriors best weapons. Although swords is not far behind, you might want to give it a shot.

A war is not a dmg dealer imo, it's more of a tank. You'll never out damage say a thief, or a black mage, but you should be damned if you can't hits and pull aggro with provoke. Eventually you'll get your 2nd strike type attack, which allows you to sometimes hit twice, which from what I've seen, is very very nice. Anyways, to make it simple, warrior is not really a high dmg class. They do dmg, great dmg actually, but their real strength is in their abilites and naturally high defense. Kinda like how a red mages strength is really in their flexibility, and how a dark knight can just whip out the damage like it's a wet salmon... i really need to stop with the similes, i'm terrible with them. I hope this makes sense.

[Maxim]

I duoed as a RDM with a WAR friend of mine since around level 13, and now we're both around level 50 and the difference is huge. At low levels, both RDM and WAR get access to the same armor, and same type of one-handed swords, so there is no huge difference. But as soon as you both hit level 24, the WAR will be able to equip that neat looking chainmail armor, while the RDM is left with light armor.

As you go along even further, the WAR will get double attack, Berserk, Defender, and the difference in strength and defense is going to be... well... extremely obvious. Keep in mind that WARs are allowed to use a variety of weapons such as one-handed sword, two-handed sword, one-handed axe, two-handed axe, spear, and scythe. Out of all of those, the RDM is restricted to the one-handed sword only, which is nothing compared to some of the two-handed weapons. For example, my WAR friend can do 150 with a two-handed axe, while I'm doing about 20 damage with my sword. =P

[Rico]

Really no job is bad each job has there pro's can con's.

[ZODIAC]

when i use 2 handed sword

my war miss the terget many times

put 2 handed scyth

you get high attack and dont miss many times


i wana suggestion

what should u get for my war

1 handed axe

2 handed axe

2 handed spear

thanks

[Barrett]

you should use all of those 3 weapons. you might not need 1H axe right away, but you'll be asked to use it later on.

[Sirius Black]

The Warrior is a very gifted class weapon wise. Their abilities allow you to use any of these rather proficiently:

-Dagger
-1H Sword
-2H Sword
-1H Axe
-2H Axe
-Scythe
-Spear
-1H Staff
-2H Staff

(Plus they have average grappling skills and since you have a MNK sub you may want to look at it)

Aside from that though, they are the MOST proficient at the 2 Axes, so that will always be their strongest weapon and the easiest to lvl up. At this point you just need to choose 1H or 2H. 2H will most likly give you more strength, where as 1H would probably be more accurate. The other thing to consider is their WS:

1H
Legend Axe - Attacks 2 times (which can help TP)
Smash - Adds stun effect (Probably not that useful)
Raphar Axe - Adds choke effect (Again not great)
Avalanche Axe - Attacks 1 time (more Attack)
Spining Axe - Attacks multiple targets (Reasonable)
Rampage - Attacks 5 times (Most impressive, can you say TP?)
Karamitei - Attacks 1 time (Probably lots of DMG)

2H
Shield Break - Adds target's evasion down (I think the 1H's 1st is better)
Iron Tempest - Attacks 1 time (Add DMG)
ShootWarum - Attacks 1 time (Add DMG)
Armor Break - Adds target's defense down (pretty useful in other FFs not sure for XI)
King Edge - Attacks multiple targets (Like Spinning Axe)
Weapon Break - Adds target's attack power down (see armor break only better)
Raging Rush - Attacks 3 times (heres your money skill)

So it's up to you, I think Rampage is the best of them all, but Raging Rush is just barely behind it. I think all in all I would personally take the 2H. Keep in mind though you won't get a sheild this way (not sure if WAR gets sheild anyway) and you would essentially become more of an attacker and less of a tanker the choice is yours though.

[Ultimate]

Originally posted by McClane
I'm now lvl 11 warrior and I don't really know what is good about a warrior, I thought when I chose it, it was the best thing voor sword combat, but I am not sure now.

My friend is a lvl 11 red mage and well he's just as strong (if not stronger than me).

We play at the same time at the same place, both lvl 11, I have a better armor and a better sword and still I can't take a lot of monsters he can.

A red mage can get a lot of spells and a warrior can really do nothing more then hit the enemy. I wouldn't mind that if the warrior would be a stronger character than mages, but I don't see it at this moment.

Am I maybe missing something, how can a mage be equel/better then a warrior in fighting, even when the warrior has better items?

Is your friend also a human like you, it can make the difference. Especially if he is an elvaan.

[Bean Bandit]

As GearType2 has stated, a warrior class is known for front line defense for the support class, which will be most everyone else.

I remember fighting alongside with my friend in Dangruf Wadi. For just one day, we decided to form a party with each other, even though we were very much apart in everything. He was a male TaruTaru at level 20, but he did not attempt the subjob quest yet. His primary job was a BLM. I was a female Hume warrior at level 12 (now 14). We fought a Goblin Ambusher with high defense and the first 3 blows, he ended up taking before I had managed to "provoke" the monster to take the blows for him. Although the Goblin did MAJOR damage on my character, those three blows reduced his character to only 25 HPs. My character held out for 5 blows leaving me with 70 HP before we defeated the creature (his Blizzard spell took 3/4 of the Goblin's HP per cast, but he only used it once just to see how much damage I could inflict, which wasn't much). This example goes to show that GearType2 is right, a warrior or two is indispensible, especially for any party consisting of mage class characters.

Bean Bandit

[lun4tic]

Great weapons, aka two handed, usually have a long delay in their attacks, and thats less chance on actually hitting the target. I use a scythe, and a sword with my warrior, and the scythe does great damage, but the sword barely misses compard to the scythe. Great swords, and great axes both have a super huge delay in them, so you gotta try both.

[McClane]

I tried 2h axe for a while and must say it makes a huge difference, and came to lvl 17 and started to notive the difference more. So I just needed some patience, the difference is much bigger @ higher lvl's.

I changed worldserver know and I am now also @ ragnarok ^^, doing the same thing, same warrior, same large axe ^^

[lun4tic]

I guess since warrior has an A in axe and around a C in scythe then yea it does make that difference :sweat:

[joey_pizz]

It might get a little spendy at the start but train weapons when ur low LV'd. Makes it a lot easier.

train 1h axe 2h axe and maybe 1h sword.

I wouldnt bother with the 2h sword as it is Warriors C weapon "i believe" and you get better dmg with a 1h sword or any axe.

Hope that helps, and btw

WARRIOR DOES NOT SUCK!!!!:thumbsup:

[JohnDragon]

I dont like axes are swords still as good as them.

[Awntawn]

War is primarily an axe user, but a lower levels it uses 1 hand sword and at mid-levels spear because axes are horrible when it comes to renkeis until you reach the upper levels. However, as your level goes up, the difference between skill levels of A, B, C, etc get much higher. Eventually, you'll barely even be able to hit with a B weapon.

Also, war is primarily an attacker, not tank. If you boost your attack power, you can deal damage comparable to a DRK. However, try as you might, you will never get anywhere close to PLD's defense. Sure you can throw on phalanx rings, pull up defender, and eat defense kabobs to be a mediocre shield; it's the 3rd best thing (first best being ninjitsu ninja that blows off ninjitsu pouches every 10 seconds and never gets hit, second being pld), but it's not anywhere near the best.

When making a PT, if you're looking for a tank, pick pld instead. Only pick war to tank if you have to. Also, never EVER pick war to both deal damage AND take hits. They can do one or the other, but not at the same time. As for you wars out there, heed this advice. Don't try to do both at the same time, or you'll end up sucking at both. The best place for war is as an attacker paired up with a drk or a ranger.

[lun4tic]

You sound like you don't play at all.

WHy can't warriors tank and attack? They have to or they'll have to wait another 30 seconds to use taunt to start tanking the monster again.

If your being hit, you might as well hit back and they're just as good as PLD at lower levels. Maybe not as good as a PLD/WAR but they tank just fine.

How would I know? I'm a warrior and I tank in PTs just fine.

[Awntawn]

Attacking = duh. What I mean is as a primary source of damage.

If you want to deal damage, you use +acc equipments like sniper rings (which take away def, btw), eat attack food that boosts attack and not defense, use berserk as often as possible, which also decreases defense. When a WAR as an attacker takes hate from dealing too much damage, they get smacked hard and take damage comparable to that taken by a DRK (Apparently below a certain point, defense rating doesn't really matter anymore and near-maximum damage is dealt; mages get smacked for the same amount. The difference is WAR has considerably more HP than DRK or Mages, so it looks like they're not taking as much damage if you turn the numbers off, which most mages do; same as MNK SAM and DRG, but if you look at the figures, they're all relatively the same, and they waste the same amount of MP trying to cure them to full). On the other hand, if you want to tank, you most likely equip phalanx rings (meaning your acc boost suffers a 10 point loss there), eat defense food (no attack boost), and pull up defender after you have the hate (cuts down damage dealt per hit to around half on tote or totetote). You can use berserk for WS, but keeping it up negates all the stuff you did to boost your defense.

and lunatic: at your level, drk and mnk tank just fine as well. Eventually it branches off.

[lun4tic]

Obviously they won't hit as much as a monk, ecspesially not an elvaan monk who started in sandoria.

War were meant to be tankers in teh early stages of the game, their more choices in stronger armors prove it, and you can be a damage dealer too, it all depends on your statuses and the weapons you use.

Obviously they should switch to axe if they're looking to do damage real fast, but its slower, which gives it less chances to hit or miss. The sword is just even.

If you had a party full of monks it probably wouldn't go so well.

[Mithrael]

You're not kidding about it deviating at higher levels. I know a lvl 42 rdm who does just as much damage as an equal level warrior with a one hand sword. Only reason I see to use a 1-hd sword once the nice axes become available is to have the war/drk/pld only weapon skills (like red lotus blade).

[Beany]

Give me a 2h axe over a 1h sword anyday. LVL25, double attacks actually means something; LVL30 with MNK support, Counters are alot more impressive. Right now, as a LVL34 Taru WAR/MNK, I do about 150-350 DMG(on average about 200 dmg) with the Storm Vent WS, more or less the same damage as a THF doing Fuidama Combo. That, and I get 24% TP back from doing my WS(if I remember correctly)! I'm usually the first one to get 100% TP, aside from SAM of course. The gap will widen considerably since THF will own with Viper Bite, but still, 150-350dmg is nothing to scoff at.

I really hated playing WAR until I started using my 2h axe(I was only leveling it for support job), but now I'm having alot of fun with it. I definitely respect WAR alot more now than I used to. Too bad I only need it for one more level :sweat:

[JohnDragon]

Well i deside to go whit samuria/warrior sins the get to keep there swords i dont like axes at all and spears are boring and i love swords.:biggrin:

[dbeeo]

Shield Break - Adds target's evasion down (I think the 1H's 1st is better)


nah.... 2h axe ws1 is better..... totex2 +++ enemy will become totex2 --- during the effect of evasion down....



war might sucks before lvl 50.... but it will become useful after lvl 60:biggrin: becoz of 2h axe's ws

[joey_pizz]

LMFAO Lunatic what your saying is a JOKE! Warrior cannot tank and attack because to be good at one thing you need to use abilities. IE: Berserk + Aggressor for atttacking and Defender for tanking. Without the use of abilities you just plain suck. With defender and some decent armor you CAN technically tank. The only problem I've really run into is that its hard to keep the hate on me, especially when theres a DRK in the party. Without berserk you hit for shitty dmg thats all over the place. There is no way a RDM can compare to a warriors damage, even if they are both using the same 1h sword. Skill up axes, Rampage PWNS.

[lun4tic]

Sounds like you were doing something wrong.

Not all of us can tank AND attack I guess. =/

[Otaku~gamer]

Originally Posted By lun4tic
Sounds like you were doing something wrong. Not all of us can tank AND attack I guess.

Actually he's not.. you just can't make assumptions about a class when you haven't even see it or done it yourself (he said she said talk doesn't count). You can't base decisions and tell people they are wrong when you yourself don't have a character high enough to even see the difference. Your not even talking from experience, just assumptions.


Originally Posted By lun4tic
War were meant to be tankers in teh early stages of the game, their more choices in stronger armors prove it, and you can be a damage dealer too, it all depends on your statuses and the weapons you use.

Yes your right lun4tic.. they CAN be tankers AND great attackers at the early stages of the game. But as you get higher warriors defense starts to lack compared to a paladin. Warrior's get passives for more damage while paladin's get more passives for more defense. The best way a warrior can tank at higher lvls is with /nin using the lvl 12 scroll BLINK. But you'd have to spend thousands upon thousands of gil per party or EVEN per fight not to mention the scroll itself sells for 120k-250k depending on the server.


Originally Posted By lun4tic
Obviously they should switch to axe if they're looking to do damage real fast, but its slower, which gives it less chances to hit or miss. The sword is just even.

All warriors should absolutely switch to 2h axe at higher lvls.. its their highest grade weapon. But your wrong on one thing, just because a weapon is slower doesn't give it less chances to miss or hit.. ALL WEAPONS have the same chance to miss or hit reguardless of its delay. The only thing different between the two is the fact that it really sucks if the 2hander misses since they have to wait for the next attack while the 1hander can shrug is off like it really nothing because the delay is lower and they attack quicker.

When I play WHM id rather have a paladin tanking then a warrior.

[lun4tic]

Otaku, what I ment was that for every one swing a great axe does a sword will swing twice. (Hypothetically.) If the axe misses, you do no damage and you gotta wait a long delay time to attack again. If it hits, you do alot. With a sword, you can miss, wait a couple seconds, then hit. Or hit then miss. Or miss twice and be completely blown.

You have a better chance of doing damage with a sword.

[joey_pizz]

NO PLZ STOP NOW....Lunatic, please, stop. I don't think you understand the concept of an "A" weapon and a "B" weapon. At your level, the difference is maybe a few levels, but as you go higher, the gab between an A weapon and a B weapon becomes greater. At 58 A weapon is capped at 188 but the B weapon might be capped at around 175 or around there. Meaning you will hit less and less with your B weapon as you get higher. Plus you are also going to be asked to use 2h axe and 1h axe for rampage, and you will really be a bother to your PT if you cannot use these weapons.

[Maxim]

One-handed swords don't do much damage at higher levels. They're great at low levels since Fast Blade and Red Lotus are used often to connect in renkei, but at higher levels two-handed weapons are used to connect in renkei and the one-handed sword becomes more or less obsolete.

And two-handed weapons can do over twice the damage a sword can per hit, so over time you wind up doing more damage. Two-handed axe is also the warrior's rank A weapon, so as long as the skill is capped you won't be missing as much as a one-handed sword.

Two-handed axe over the course of 30 seconds:
50 + 50 + 50 + miss + 50x2 (double attack) = 250 dmg.

One-handed sword over the course of 30 seconds:
15 + 15 + miss + 15x2 (double attack) + 15+ miss+ 15 +15 + miss + 15x2 (double attack) = 135 dmg.

And that's not counting the extra damage you can do with weapon skills either. Two-handed axes have much stronger weapon skills than one-handed swords.

[Aldo]

I think you guys are missing the point on why 2h axe is so much more vesatile for wars.

At higher levels, warriors can play as both tanks and damage dealers, often times if the war is skilled enough, they can switch in and out, using the correct abilities at the right times, becoming a fierce defencive and offencive melee class. Why everyone chooses to think PLDs are better tanks is beyond me, here are the facts that I have observed:

WAR deals significantly more damage per hit than a PLD
WAR adds substantial offencive support to other melees via Armor and Sheild break, War Cry; no other melee class can provide this kind of support, having the first 2 abilities inside of Weapon skills makes 2h axe so crucial to being a Warriors prime weapon (as well as subbing samurai after lv60)

In addition, wars that sub sam, it appears to be the #1 sub after lv60, expedite the battles greatly; they go in with full tp gauge, use sheild break then can solo WS or renkei with Raging crush, if theres a tougher enemy with higher defence or eva, they can switch between armor and sheild. You just need a good PT setup and a SKILLED warrior and you will be on your knees begging them :handsdown

[struck]

Originally posted by Aldo
I think you guys are missing the point on why 2h axe is so much more vesatile for wars.

At higher levels, warriors can play as both tanks and damage dealers, often times if the war is skilled enough, they can switch in and out, using the correct abilities at the right times, becoming a fierce defencive and offencive melee class. Why everyone chooses to think PLDs are better tanks is beyond me, here are the facts that I have observed:

WAR deals significantly more damage per hit than a PLD
WAR adds substantial offencive support to other melees via Armor and Sheild break, War Cry; no other melee class can provide this kind of support, having the first 2 abilities inside of Weapon skills makes 2h axe so crucial to being a Warriors prime weapon (as well as subbing samurai after lv60)

In addition, wars that sub sam, it appears to be the #1 sub after lv60, expedite the battles greatly; they go in with full tp gauge, use sheild break then can solo WS or renkei with Raging crush, if theres a tougher enemy with higher defence or eva, they can switch between armor and sheild. You just need a good PT setup and a SKILLED warrior and you will be on your knees begging them :handsdown

That?fs exactly right, very well said. I remember us having a little chat about this recently. :)

[Bean Bandit]

Originally posted by Maxim
One-handed swords don't do much damage at higher levels. They're great at low levels since Fast Blade and Red Lotus are used often to connect in renkei, but at higher levels two-handed weapons are used to connect in renkei and the one-handed sword becomes more or less obsolete.

And two-handed weapons can do over twice the damage a sword can per hit, so over time you wind up doing more damage. Two-handed axe is also the warrior's rank A weapon, so as long as the skill is capped you won't be missing as much as a one-handed sword.

Two-handed axe over the course of 30 seconds:
50 + 50 + 50 + miss + 50x2 (double attack) = 250 dmg.

One-handed sword over the course of 30 seconds:
15 + 15 + miss + 15x2 (double attack) + 15+ miss+ 15 +15 + miss + 15x2 (double attack) = 135 dmg.

And that's not counting the extra damage you can do with weapon skills either. Two-handed axes have much stronger weapon skills than one-handed swords.

I kinda agree with you there and that's the reason why I put aside my sword and shield and opted for the 2H sword, which I'm currently favoring the Demonic Sword atm.

However ...

You have to realize that the sword and shield comes to play in the event that you don't have additional healers in party besides the WHM (moot issue at higher levels I guess when the sub comes into play more) and when you are facing monsters with high evade. The shield can help to reduce or absorb excess damage making heals less frequent and also the 1H sword won't miss as often either (although the damage dealt will be lower). Even with less damage, you still fill your TP gauge quicker than a 2H sword that misses 70% of the time.

To me, it's how the party is setup, what you're fighting and how skilled you are at adapting to each situation. Which is why I always carry my 2H and 1H + Shield.

Yes, the stats for 2H sword above does not take into account the KIND of weapon used. If someone is using a Barbarian Sword and have very low accuracy (due to some status effect, loss from sword, combination of stats dex, agi, etc) he'll miss a LOT. I know people who've reported this to me, on how a WAR in their party just keeps missing and it considerably irritates other party members (accusation of free XP etc).

My advice is to just be versed in more than one weapon skill and make the choice with an open and clear mind. I think I see so much biasness on these forums and topics become so needlessly controversial.

Besides, the whole point is having fun :) I don't think it's right to take it so serious to the point that it makes all reality seemingly pointless to live in ... >.>

Cheers,
Bean Bandit

Edited out Sword for Shield

[Tokiwong]

I think I am going to an Elvaan Warrior with the 2-H Axe as soon as I can get one, I think that would be fun, and then figure out the rest of the details later :)

[nicksgotpecks]

axes are just kickass like a insane beserker

[zombie2kornout]

paladin is more focused for protection....for example in pvp pallys should always hang back and defend casters....while warriors are meat shields.....pallies are more the last line rather thats how its been in most every mmorpg ive played....such as DAoC and EQ....your mixing apples and oranges

[Thylteev]

While a warrior can tank pretty darn well, a paladin could take hits that would make a warrior pass out.