Question on Ranger abilities...

[Goryus]

What stats affect the damage a Ranger does with a gun/bow? Do the Dark Knight passive abilities affect the damage a Ranger does with a gun? What about the active abilities?

[Genrou]

Movin' on up...:rolleyes:

[c=|==Zero==>]

It really depends on the ammo you get for your weapon.

[Goryus]

I understand that the ammo is the main determining factor. That's not what I'm asking.

What I'm really interested in is this:

Will the Dark Knight Attack UP abilities affect the damage of a gun? What about darkness and its kin?

[c=|==Zero==>]

It probably does, being that the boosts in attack should be to all weapons reguardless. Also depending on the Rangers MND he/she could have a high resistance to staus affects that decrease accuracy (i.e. Darkness). The ranger should be no exception to power ups and status effects just because of his weapon. Just has a beastly amount that has to be spent to get ammo.

[Goryus]

Ah, now, here's where the grey area appears (and the reason I asked the question):

Are you sure the bonus from Attack UP is applied to the weapon, and not to the stat that determines damage?

Because, let's say (just for grins) that the sword damage formula looked like this:

Dmg = Str + WpnPwr - Def

And the gun damage formula looked like this:

Dmg = 2 * WpnPwr - Def

If the actual effect of Attack UP was to introduce a 1.5 multiplier into the equation, where exactly it would go would matter. If it effected the Str stat, it might not have any effect on gun damage; if it effected the WpnPwr stat, it might have twice the effect for guns (or more!). If it effected the quantity of Str + WpnPower, it might (depending on the exact formulas) have the exact same effect for both.

So (and sorry to belabor the point), I was curious if we had any idea which of the above - if any - is correct. Thanks :)

[c=|==Zero==>]

Good point. Though I do believe the "power up" is quoted as "Physical Attack Up ~ Added bonus stat in physical attack" which would mean Str. Being that guns (esspecially in real life) don't do more damage because you are stronger I am guessing that it will have less impact on the damage than normal weapons but since guns are already so powerful you may just barely notice it. If this is the case then Dark Knight is probably not going to help a Rangers abilities much but maybe if Dark Knight was Main and Ranger was subed it could do you better than visa versa. Not 100% sure but from my scouring of sites the "best" in my opinion to sub for Ranger would be Paladin. But some people don't like that angle much. A healing tank artillery. That would be my goal though.

[Rafi Malak']

I've heard many different things many of which were conflicting on this topic but from what i got out of it a rangers Dex is what determines the strength of his weapons not his Str, I don't know why it is but i remember seeing a very interesting post that proves my point I'll try to dig it up and post the link in here for you.

[c=|==Zero==>]

Thanx Rafi. Now if only they kept things simple this would be so much easier, or if they at least told us flat out "this is how it works". Though it does leave room for the mind to wander around the possibilities.

[tongyang]

Here are the answers:

- STR determines the strength of bow weapons. (Guns, crossbows do not apply)

- "Range attack power" (”ò?U) determines the damage of all range weapons. This is a hidden stat not shown in the statistics page. (STR adds to the stat when using bow type weapons, but not gun/crossbow)

- DEX is not related to range weapons at all.

- Ammo is only the main determining factor of the damage for guns. When using a bow, the bow itself is the determining factor.

- The passive ability "attack up" (DRK, WAR...) works with range weapons.

- Some active abilities work with range weapons (Last resort, Berserk, ...) and some don't (backstab, fakeattack, ...)

[Rafi Malak']

Like I said many conflicting views, so its hard to tell which is right and which is wrong really I don't know myself but I'm going by Dex cause it makes a little more sense to me that a rangers attack power would be caculated from a different stat and not by Str. . but i have been wrong before. Anyways heres the link I promised you hope you find the answer your searching for.

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9396&highlight=ranger+and+dex

Oh yeah I decided to edit this and make it a little easier for you be posting a few quotes from the thread.

Originally posted by Maxim
You'll do more damage if you sub job is thief. Remember, the damage dealt with RNG is different from your average melee class. When using ranged weapons, DEX is what affects how much damage you do, not STR, and the THF has the most DEX when compared with all the other jobs. Elvaans have really horrible DEX, by the way. If you plan on getting the most out of each attack, sub thief. You win both ways since you get a boost in AGI as well as DEX.


Originally posted by Jei
DEX is a small portions. The mian thing that determines Ranger's attack power, is your bow and arrows.

Are you using a 1,000 gil bow shooting a 6 gil arrows? doing 30-40 damage each shot?
Or
Are you using 2,000,000 bow shooting a 300 gil arrows? doing 100-120 damage each shot?

Or even...
Using 1,000,000 gun shooting a 1,000 bullet each shot? doing 200-240 damage? (guna are normally cheaper but bullets are more expensive)

DEX only helps 1-5%....

so once again, no one care if you're an Elvaan, as long as you're willing to spend money and shoot.

[Skyrik]

I wouldn't sweat it Rafi. Be more concerend of actually hitting the target instead of a few more piddle point damage.
Like did you hit your enemy three times doing 300 each time or did you hit it two times missing once doing 310 each? And as Jei said your actually ammo and weapon is what really matters. But if you really need an opinion... I'm siding with strength... as Neridia claims.

Uh...no. STR determine how much damage you dishes out with your Bow and Arrow.

[tongyang]

Maybe you should check out who posted the posts you quoted and see how much ranger they played? I'm a lv58 ranger, and you can decide whether to believe me or not ;)

[Goryus]

Interesting. How much of a damage difference is there, Tong? Is it significant enough to consider subbing Dark Knight (Rangers are already the most damaging class; particularly if the Attack UP abilities work as a percentage increase, they could be _very_ powerful...)?

[tongyang]

Subbing DRK does give you a little more attack power because of the stronger attack up passive ability, so your regular arrows would take off a little more. However, you also have to consider the pros and cons:

- DRK subs give a little less AGI than WAR sub (don't think enough to make too much of a difference)

- The ability "darkness" doesn't work with range attacks.

- "Berserk" increases attack power more than "Last resort", and "berserk" lasts longer than "last resort" as well.

- DRK subs give you some black magic spells you can use, and there's definitely more of a "cool" factor subbing DRK.

Personally, I still recommend WAR sub, but you can sub DRK if you want :)

[Goryus]

I'm just brainstorming at this point. Rangers are the ultimate massive damage dealing class - ideally, were I to play one, I would want to maximize that aspect. Our friendly warrior-types can take the hits and taunt stuff to keep off of me (or so I figure) - my job would be to kill the mob as quick as possible so we can move on to the next.

To that end, I was curious as to which sub would maximize my damage dealing powers. Dark Knight occured to me, but I wasn't sure it would work =)

[tongyang]

It really depends on what kind of damage you're talking about. For regular attacks, I would say you will have a higher regular damage output subbing DRK (meaning, every arrow will have a higher damage average)

However, if you start counting the weapon skills damage, a war sub will have a little higher damage output for WS damage. This can be significant at high levels for super damaging skills like sidewinder/slugshot.

[Goryus]

Really? Interesting. Why would the warrior's damage be higher for special moves?

[Ultimarenee]

There' 1 quest that's haven't been out yet but it involves the making of a bullet that can take out an enemy with 1 shot..at the cost of an extreme HP lost...but sssshhhhhh its a japanese secret!;)

[tongyang]

Originally posted by Goryus
Really? Interesting. Why would the warrior's damage be higher for special moves?

Cause warrior has better attack up job abilities (Berserk increases your attack power more then Last Resort)

[Terikan]

in most games dex is what affects bows at least in some way.

has anyone confirmed which stat is most important?

[tongyang]

How many times do I have to write it? Dex has nothing to do with range accuracy in FFXI. This is confirmed true.

[Terikan]

This is confirmed true.

By who? I realize you play a ranger, but that doesn't really hold much weight. Have you done some tests? If so, what are the results, the actual numbers? Also, maybe there is an official strat guide that tells, maybe you could give some info from that, or maybe on an actual s-e website.

You know, something like that.

[tongyang]

Originally posted by Terikan
By who?

Have you tried researching Japanese web sites?

http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Bishop/1523/qa.html
http://jbbs.shitaraba.com/game/bbs/read.cgi?BBS=1578&KEY=1058169402

[Exsol]

Yeah, im a lv11 rng, its a fun job.
And I would have to say that, I belive Tong is right, i agree with all his statements (true i havent played it very long_) But i do notice that dex doesnt do jack crap to my acc.
But things like berserk does.
Its too bad people arnt more well infored about rng, They seem to cause a lot of confustion.
but a few things are for sure,
1) They can do more damage than any class at high lvs
2) The can own worms to hell
3) They are expensive >.<
~thanks~

[Xavz]

It's amazing to see that there are still people that don't realize that AGI affects your long range hit percentage, not DEX.

[Daisaku]

I got a question about Atk Down effects by ennemies,

Does Range Dmg heavily depends on your Attack ?
i say that because when some monster get Atk Down on me, my atk is cut in half and so is my arrow damage, seems to be a link. thx