Martial Gun - Final Fantasy XI :: Dreams in Vana'diel :: Community

Omgwtfbbqkitten · 11-21-2007, 12:40 PM

OK, so I rebought a Martial Gun for my COR recently and after about a two weeks of merriting with it, I'm still not feeling the edge on anything but Detonator, which is still outpaced by the damage of Slug Shot . I know there's a +100 TP latent there once you're past 100 TP (making it 200 TP at 100 and 300 at 200).

As far as Slug Shot accuracy goes, I'm hard pressed to see an actual difference in the accuracy that +100 TP gives me and the +9 Ranged Accuracy I already have on Coffinmaker. Martial gun felt less accurate.

Whether it was Detonator or Slugshot, I usually felt obligated to hold back for the 300 TP on either, which I think just brought my DoT down instead of up. 200 TP Detonators just don't stand up to 100 TP Slugs with other guns. On Hilltrolls my best Slug was 1200 and that's just with the standard accuracy, but the best my Detonators ever got were 945 with 300 TP. Just doesn't feel worth holding back for 100 more TP even with the bonus the gun gives. These are the numbers I've eyeballed strictly against Hilltrolls, since my friends tend to want to do those than deal with Thickets camps these days.

So I've put it back up on the AH to help in scaring up some funds for Dancer and Scholar. Overall I'd say this gun feels like it would be more useful for Detonator against gods and HNMs. Detonator did get a boost in damage (varies with TP) back in august, but I feel as though its better to /mage against gods/HNM and save /RNG for merits and other endgame activities where /RNG works, like Limbus or Dynamis.

I'm still working out my gorgets, so I have niether Breeze or Light, but even then I think Slug would win out. I planning to set up various ENM runs for my LS from time to time to get people other martial weapons and I have the Bearclaw Pinnacle one flagged, so I may have a Martial Gun again someday. Martial Gun just seems to still take up a slot in my inventory, even with the update to Detonator.

Callisto · 11-26-2007, 08:16 AM

I've been comparing the two of these this week as well, and I think I'm going to actually stick with the Martial Gun. I've taken a liking to using Detonator for the most part, then using Slug every 5 minutes when Sharpshot is up.

I played around eating Coeurl Subs, and the hit in melee accuracy that I took from not using Sushi was noticeable enough that I didn't want to hold to 200+ tp that often. If you fire off WS at 100% as often as possible and actually land all of them your damage output will be much higher than holding to 200+ often will. And despite the lower base damage, Detonator at 100% is a big difference on the 2 guns from what I've seen so far, while the Slug damage really isn't that different. Detonator will never do as much damage as Slug, that's impossible b/c of Slug's high fTP mod, but a landed Detonator will always do more damage than a missed Slug, and we both now how Slug acts at 100% sometimes.

From what I understand, aside from scaling well with TP, Detonator also received a hidden RAtk boost when they improved it(although it may be an 'ignore defense' boost like Split Shot instead'), and your RAtk/Def ratio is one of the hardest things to raise as COR. Detonator is a lot more useful than missing Slugs often, especially in a party where you're eating meat and using rolls other than Hunter's.

I want to play around more before making a final decision, but at the moment I'm definitely leaning towards the Martial Gun.

Edit: I decided to put some hypothetical #'s to this in a COR guide that I'm working on, just for the sake of comparison...here's the excerpt:

Martial Gun vs. Coffinmaker

This part I'm not going to get super mathy on, really it's common sense if you look at the formula. Let's say your pDIF is at 2.0. The Martial Gun has 39 D, Coffinmaker has 40. The WSD formula is basically Base WS damage * fTP * pDIF...if you have 5.1 fTP and 3.0 pDIF, that means you have Base WS damage * 10.2. Logic follows that adding 1 D will net you a 10 damage boost for Slug Shot. I can't really tell you if the accuracy boost from an extra 100% TP is greater than the +9 from Coffinmaker, but they seem pretty close.

For Detonator, however, Martial Gun will out damage Coffinmaker when both weapons are at less than 300% TP, and by more than 10 in most cases. This is because Detonator gets higher fTP values tiered at every 100% TP, and the TP Bonus on the Martial Gun will make it act as if it has 100% more TP than it really does. If we assume a Base WS Damage value that includes fSTR2 of 9 and WSC of 18, and keep the 2.0 pDIF, let's see the differences:

Coffinmaker @ 100% TP

WSD = 137 * 2.10 * 2.0
WSD = 574~

Martial Gun @ 100% TP

WSD = 136 * 2.85 * 2.0
WSD = 774~

Coffinmaker @ 200% TP

WSD = 137 * 2.85 * 2.0
WSD = 780~

Martial Gun @ 200% TP

WSD = 136 * 3.10 * 2.0
WSD = 842~

Coffinmaker @ 300% TP

WSD = 137 * 3.10 * 2.0
WSD = 848~

The Martial Gun can't exceed the effect of having 300% TP, so anything over 200% TP will be the same. So at 300% TP the Coffinmaker will be slightly better than the Martial...but if you're trying to maximize your DoT, why would you want to hold TP til you hit 300%?! Meanwhile, Slug Shot will be only slightly weaker on the Martial Gun, while equally or possibly more accurate. I have to believe that the Martial Gun is superior in terms of DoT for a COR who melees for TP. If you're shooting for TP however, the Coffinmaker is probably a better choice, with higher D and lower Delay.

Omgwtfbbqkitten · 11-28-2007, 10:15 AM

I probably should have prefaced this with some of the gear I've been using, because it could very well be that +100 TP you get from Martial would be more felt to a COR without the build I have than a COR equal to mine or just slightly better.

For WS my build is:

Corsair's Tricorne
Crimson Finger Gauntlets
Pahluwan body
Dusk Trousers
Corsair's Bottes
Rajas Ring
Jalzhan's Ring
Hollow Earring
Fenrir Earring
Qiqirn Collar
Anemet Mantle +1
Gun Belt.

And ususally sole sushi when I melee.

Now with lesser gear or a different subjob, Martial Gun might actually work out better, but as /RNG with this setup I'm really hard pressed to see a difference in Slugs at the usual 100 TP. Regardless of the gun, holding back for Detonator when slug will do more damage just doesn't feel sensible to me.

Callisto · 11-28-2007, 10:41 AM

It depends on the target as well, for high defense targets Slug will do barely more damage, examples being ToAU44 or elementals in Limbus(did both of these last night, damage was within 20 points on both WS).
Sushi would make using only Slug more sensible, however you can probably deal more total damage using meat and using Detonator with occasional Sharpshot Slugs dealt in. For most meripos now I use Coeurl Subs, my personal sets are:

TP Set

WS Set

I do much more damage using meat, to the point where my Detonators with meat are bumped up about to my Slugs with sushi, while my Slugs with meat when Sharpshot is up do 800-1.3k dependant on mob and rolls. Especially with your build focusing more on RAcc than mine you could definitely get away with it and crank out more damage. All other factors even, Martial will only do marginally less damage on Slugs at 100%, while much more damage on Detonators at 100%...If I wasn't a console player I'd parse the two to see which really wins out, maybe I can talk one of my PC friends into running one for me.

Omgwtfbbqkitten · 12-11-2007, 12:09 AM

I guess I'm just not seeing the benefit, I've had the highest Chaos Rolls and Double minuets - which makes meat pretty pointless, so I just use more STR and eat sole sushi - and I've still seen Slug outperform Detonator on Martial Gun.

And I can't really see a difference for Slug accuracy between martial and anything else. To me, its just taking up space in inventory.