[Quetzalcoatl]

lol yes rdm can only solo with /nin with out it rdm r no more that refreshers and dispellers :p and i think bard can do that much better >.<;

jk :p

[Taskmage]

Erm no ... nin is the most popular solo sub but by no means required. blm, whm and blu are also excellent solo subs, and actually blu is preferred over nin for charybdis because 3 shadows won't even survive one attack, whereas cocoon will apply to the whole volley. Auto-regen and the extra mp also make things a bit easier. Meanwhile multiple-mob situations like ZM4 are only soloable with the extra defense and attack power from /blu or Sleepga and Aspir from /blm.

As for rdm's role, we're also effective main healers, preferred even in late-game parties. Bard can't do that. We're also strong kiters and can be called on for burst damage with chainspell in battlefields and missions that call for it. Then there's the ever-popular chainspell-stun combo for tough NMs and bosses.

Even at the focus of refreshing and dispelling, rdm's dispel has a much shorter recast timer than bard's finale. Bard just can't keep up with rdm-type mobs, mobs that come prebuffed, or mobs that have both buffing spells and tp moves. I challenge you to go up against antica or weapons with only a bard for dispel and still say they're better than rdm. And while it' true that bards can provide as much mp/tick in refresh as a rdm, they don't get that ability until level 55, and it's a much bigger pain in the ass for them to keep the buff on a mixed party, especially if something like a pld or a blu is involved. Even then, they can only keep refresh OR haste on each person in the party, whereas a rdm can provide both as needed.

Why would you even make such a poorly informed statement?

[Srxjo]

whats the strat for duo/trio RDM fight? (got 2 RDMs for best friends and i beat them to 75 to ^^ but they've caught up)

[Taskmage]

Thread on it here: A shout out to Taskmage

Basically, keep Phalanx, Stoneskin, Protect, and Cocoon/Utsusemi up on yourselves, keep Bio II and Poison II on the mob, and take turns casting Bind after the other person casts Blizzard III. If a Bind gets resisted or something goes wrong, use Gravity to get back control. Again, if you have a third person there to solo the Devil Manta when it pops, that makes things much easier. Hardest part is keeping eachother updated on when your Bind is ready and rationing your mp to keep control until you get to Convert again.

[Srxjo]

after reading that post my RDMs friends won't be able to do this >.<; only one RDM i know who i only just remembered about would be able to last ; ;

[Taskmage]

Why wouldn't the other two be able to do it?

[Srxjo]

they haven't got their skill anywhere near cap and they haven't done any dangerous soloing at all

[Neomage]

Originally Posted by Quetzalcoatl

lol yes rdm can only solo with /nin with out it rdm r no more that refreshers and dispellers :p and i think bard can do that much better >.<;

jk :p

MY EYES! THEY'RE BLEEDING!

[Achaicus]

Keeping in mind a party support, I disagree with Taskmage's speculation that Quetzalcoatl is poorly informed. I would agree that, in the instance of soloing this NM that a RDM party does not require a Bard.

Originally Posted by Taskmage

(paragrahp about rdm sj snipped)


As for rdm's role, we're also effective main healers, preferred even in late-game parties. Bard can't do that. We're also strong kiters and can be called on for burst damage with chainspell in battlefields and missions that call for it. Then there's the ever-popular chainspell-stun combo for tough NMs and bosses.


Even at the focus of refreshing and dispelling, rdm's dispel has a much shorter recast timer than bard's finale. Bard just can't keep up with rdm-type mobs, mobs that come prebuffed, or mobs that have both buffing spells and tp moves. I challenge you to go up against antica or weapons with only a bard for dispel and still say they're better than rdm. And while it' true that bards can provide as much mp/tick in refresh as a rdm, they don't get that ability until level 55, and it's a much bigger pain in the ass for them to keep the buff on a mixed party, especially if something like a pld or a blu is involved. Even then, they can only keep refresh OR haste on each person in the party, whereas a rdm can provide both as needed.


Why would you even make such a poorly informed statement?

Bard can't main heal? True. RDM Preferred? Situational to party/mob. Kiter? Both. Burst? True. Stun NM or bosses? Both - except where Lullaby does not work.

Dispel recast shoter time? True. Bard can't keep up with RDM vs RDM type mobs? If you 'stack the cards' and only take Dispel/Finale into consideration. Anticans & Weapons in general? Either type of party for Anticans or Weapons (though I personally prefer the Lullaby 'fall back position' vs undead).

MP per tick? Equal after 55? Yah - when taken individually -

Pain? True where someone figures that it is. Personally, I enjoy the challenge of playing a Bard. With experience, I have learned how to judge the range with sufficient precision that I may Ballad the PLD. Even in the instances where a 'miss' occurs (THF moves into PLD's Ballad range, for example) I can recast whichever meelee type song as needed.

Provide Refresh & Haste as needed? Selectively, yes. But not the whole party and not always on demand - that's the 'luxury' of not depending on MP (one of the advantages, in general, about the Bard job).

What Taskmage or Quetzalcoatl has been informed of, I cannot say (I do not have a 'transcript' of every knowledge that they have). For party support, there are situations where a Red Mage is better or a Bard is. To be honest, I would tend to agree with the statement 'RDM is better than Bard' because RDm may be support, main heal, and solo readily. Even so, Bard support can make the whole party stronger to the point that a main heal may be shared by one or two back-ups. As far as solo - ugh, I ~could~ 'Lullaby kite' but it takes too long.

Go get another RDM and get that NM Questzalcoatl!

- Greg W.

[tdh]

Originally Posted by Taskmage

Two well-coordinated rdms can take it. I think I'm up to three Charby kills by rdm duo. It helps if you have a third person to take manta pops and more is always better of course, but you don't necessarily need that specific blink+bard setup to kill the NM. Us rdms can take care of ourselves and eachother just fine. ^^d

In that case, when can we go get my Joytoy? Too bad X isn't around, he likes getting smacked around in the name of Odude! lol

[Malacite]

Actually, if I ever got my hands on a Relic Weapon you can be damned sure I'd want it signed >. >

just for the extra ego boost :3

[Taskmage]

To Achaicus, Quetzalcoatl made three statements that I addressed in my post: 1) That rdm can only solo with /nin. 2) That without /nin rdm are nothing more than refreshers and dispellers. and 3) That bard was much better for refreshing and dispelling. None of those things are at all true, unless perhaps you give the bard a Gjallarhorn. There are many viable subs for a rdm to solo with, rdm have considerably more useful spells in the repetoire than just refresh and dispel, and that rdm can not only match a bard in refreshing/dispelling but are situationally better.

If I came across as saying that rdm are hands-down better than bard, that's not what I meant. I'm only saying that bard is not hands-down better than rdm. Obviously there are situations and tasks that favor each over the other. As you said, the best support for a party is a bard AND a rdm.

Originally Posted by tdh

In that case, when can we go get my Joytoy? Too bad X isn't around, he likes getting smacked around in the name of Odude! lol

I have a standing offer to help pop and fight Charby for anyone in the LS that collects the ToD. So far nobody's taken me up on it.

[Mhurron]

Originally Posted by Taskmage

If I came across as saying that rdm are hands-down better than bard, that's not what I meant.

It's ok if thats what it sounded like you said, it's true.

[Feba]

How the heck would having a signed relic weapon be an ego boost? Obviously, it's rare/ex, it's on your character. If someone sees the signature that means they're /checking you, which means THEY ALREADY SEE YOUR NAME IN THE UPPERLEFT OF THEIR SCREEN. It's really freakin' obvious you got a relic weapon, it's kinda impossible for you to have one otherwise. How in the world does it make it any better than an unsigned weapon?

I can understand having things like non EX NM drops being able to be signed, that would be nice, mark it as your kill, but signing RA/EX quested items would be retarded.

[Malacite]

How the heck would having a signed relic weapon be an ego boost? Obviously, it's rare/ex, it's on your character. If someone sees the signature that means they're /checking you, which means THEY ALREADY SEE YOUR NAME IN THE UPPERLEFT OF THEIR SCREEN. It's really freakin' obvious you got a relic weapon, it's kinda impossible for you to have one otherwise. How in the world does it make it any better than an unsigned weapon?

I can understand having things like non EX NM drops being able to be signed, that would be nice, mark it as your kill, but signing RA/EX quested items would be retarded.

Typical alla mentality. It's simple; yes, Relics in and of themselves are a huge accomplishment, but having it signed with my name to boot separates me from any others who might have one. It's just a tiny added touch of awesomeness.