Blacklist drama

[Icemage]

Ok, given the recent furor about The List (a blacklist for the Seraph server run by some players, ostensibly to help other players identify and avoid RMTs and their sympathizers), I'm creating this separate topic to discuss the philosophy and psychology behind the creation of blacklists.

Pro-blacklist arguments state emphatically that taking some action, even of a vigilante nature, is preferable to taking no action.

Anti-blacklist arguments span a range of issues, from wrongful accusation, lack of tangible proof, ineffectiveness, or in some cases violation of Terms of Service in harassing or otherwise hindering such players who have been placed on a list.

P.S. As an aside, I am locking the previous discussion topic, as it has largely played itself out and dissolved into this topic.

If you wish to play ball with this issue, please place your reasoning here.


Icemage

[Aeni]

That's too nearly cut and dry of choices there Icy.

I'm for keeping a blacklist (or /blist) for personal reasons. I should not be forced to:

(a) Add names to the list because someone else told me to.
(b) Maintain it the way someone else wants me to maintain it.

It's a matter of personal choice and of personal opinion. It should never be the responsibility of someone else to dictate the terms to me. Thus I feel strongly against a "Bingo Book" that's maintained by some other person's definition of justice.

Also, it's one thing to form a personal opinion about another player. It's illegal for a player to tell another player to impede the activity of anyone in this game with or without cause for justification. It's the responsibility and sole right of the GM, but not of individual players. Please read SE's ToS if you don't agree with me. I've read it a few times already and am actually amused by this whole "controversy." Player Harassment is just that and reads in plain wording. What part of it is against the Agreement for players to harass another player for any reason at all do players don't understand?

[Lyceius]

how is closing a thread that was keeping the issue in one thread and opening another for the issue constructive?

[Murphie]

Because here we can (hopefully) get away from the personal attacks, and just discuss the issue in general, rather than the specific example of Seraph's list.

I'm with Aeni. But anyone who read the last thread would see that. I don't think any player has the right to take matters into their own hands, no matter how frustrated they may be.

[Macht]

Previous thread started turning more into attacking eachother and not a real debate about the topic. Underlined basis of the topic of "The List" was the Pro's and Con's of having a Universal blacklist.

Closed previous and opened this as another chance to start fresh instead of attacking eachother. Along with starting fresh appointing a topic more to the core of the basis in general.

Double Post Edited:

Because here we can (hopefully) get away from the personal attacks, and just discuss the issue in general, rather than the specific example of Seraph's list.

I'm with Aeni. But anyone who read the last thread would see that. I don't think any player has the right to take matters into their own hands, no matter how frustrated.

Ooh, darn you Aelathir!!!

Beat me to it..

[Lyceius]

Well I hope that it does that. I still remain my stance that singleing out players and threating them in game is wrong.

[Amovorite]

EDIT: Sorry, Amovorite, I'm removing your post, not because I want to silence you, but because this thread was created specifically to stop the dissent about Seraph's blacklist.

Reposting more arguments from that thread does nothing but perpetuate the attacks. - Icemage

[Murphie]

Thanks for making this about The List again. No, seriously. Thanks.

I'd like to add that at no point do I ever owe another player an apology for inadvertently partying with someone who might be RMT. I don't owe them a genuine apology, and I don't owe them a facetious apology. They have no authority over me, and never will, unless by some chance they start to work for SE.

[Hamlet]

I think there needs to be another thread that's even more general than this one, and yet subtely about the same thing.

Like, maybe a thread to discuss reputions of players... in general, of course.

But I probably have my nose too far up Cole's ass to even discuss player's reputations in general unbiasedly.

[Amovorite]

Fair enough Icemage, though I would like to reference this comment that you made at your closing post in the List as to why I posted that here:

If you would still like to discuss this topic in general, please post your thoughts there.

So Aelathir, since I was told to post here since I still wanted to discuss that topic in general, You're Welcome.

Edit: Just a quick clarification, when I see 'this topic in general', it reads out to me as the topic entailed in the post, Grievances with The List. If, however, you meant the topic of Blacklists in general, then I fully understand and stand aside. However, hope you're ready, because I really don't see many posts popping up about blacklists w/o references, veiled or otherwise, to RD's list.

Further edit, and unless you have an idea other than what 'this topic' means, mine remains as well. Mmkay?

[Murphie]

Your post was in specific reference to RD and his list. So, unless you have some different idea of what "in general" means, my comment stands.

[Lyceius]

To me the whole thought of Blacklists in game in general both ruins the gamming experiance for the lister and the listees. The lister is concentrated on finding people to list and the listees are worried about being listed. so on one is really enjoying the game.

[Ciros]

To me, the list seemed like slander and encouraging an "arrest people without a warrant" attitude.

However, it is a player's personal choice to add someone to their blacklist, and if they want to blindly follow another's word about someone else, that's their call.

It's all about choice, perspective, and opinion.

[Feba]

Sorry, edited to encourage threads actual topic. No longer "The List" specifically.

-Macht

[Macht]

My god if Icemage's message for the thread wasn't clear enough I could of sworn I made it even clearer.

The refference of "this topic" in general is the topic of Universal blacklists are they good or bad? Provide Pro's and Con's.

Universal blacklists is the general topic RD's "The List" classifies under being a Universal blacklist.

That any clearer? Now fell free to discuss pro's and con's on Universal blacklists, not "The List" specifically.