[Takelli]

Originally Posted by Icemage

Uh, no. Colibri are mentioned because they are the WEAKEST enemy you can potentially merit on at 75.

EVERYTHING else hits harder. Mamool Ja. Trolls. Treants. Puddings. Whatever.

And enfeebles? Surely you jest. At most I'll toss out Silence, Paralyze I/II, and/or Slow I/II and only on especially ornery enemies who like to use fun things like self-haste or spells (typically Mamool Ja spellcasters). I also like tossing Paralyze on Skoffins to avoid unpleasant things like Dread Shriek > Deadly Drive/Radiant Breath > multi-attack deaths. I have never, ever, EVER used Bio III in a merit party (and yes I have the spell - but the MP cost is beyond exorbitant).

They may be the weakest, but there could be something better out there that doesn't use pecking flurry, and can be biod to reduce its damage out put. What most of the monsters you are talking about are in Aht Urgan. But, what about the non Aht Urgan monsters? The ones in the orginal area, that people used to Merit off of? Why not use them instead of the pitiful weak monsters people use now, that they have to sub ninja on to even stay alive? If they are so god damned weak, then why should they sub ninja, if they are THAT weak!

There are creatures who have a stronger attack, but they don't have a multi hit liek Pecking Flurry that the DDs don't need to worry about. And they could just have Bio put on them, because they don't mimic your spells in Pre-Aht Urgan. Everyone got so used to having a safety net under them after Aht Urgan came out, no one wants to Merit off other monsters that are "Stronger" in areas other than Aht Urgan. They can be enfeebled if they are too strong. Attack too fast? Slow, Too hard, Bio, high def? Dia. And you know what? The people can nuke the hell out of them if the Melee DD cant hit hard enough.

[Ketaru]

While Pecking Flurry can certainly hit hard if you're unlucky, it's hardly the most dangerous mob weaponskill out there, especially when confronted with the likes of Rushing Drub and Sickle Slash or Fang Rush. And that's only of the mob families people fight for EXP. And even if Pecking Flurry were fairly dangerous, the fact Colibri are squishy and have low HP will still attract people to them as merit mobs.

It's the same as the argument about Dia vs. Bio. 99% of the time, lowering the mob's defense is more beneficial than lowering the mob's attack. In fact, the only time I can think of where I use Bio with the purpose of lowering attack is when I'm blood tanking easy things. Whenever Bio is used by groups, it is more to inflict DoT than it is to lower Attack (especially since lowering Attack is a bit purpose-defeating when the point is to "kite" the limbus behemoths, not fight them straight up)

[Aksannyi]

Other camps have been done to death. Nothing else even touches the capability to get the xp/hr of Colibri. Pecking flurry blows, but relative to some of the other shit out there, they're still really weak attack/defense wise. Other mobs where people used to merit before ToAU came out took ages to kill, for less xp, and less possibility for chains.

It isn't that people wanted to pigeonhole merit parties, but there really aren't any great camps. I did a moon camp once (long time ago) while leveling my WHM, and it was pretty damn slow. Weapons suck to xp on, yet that's what was done - xping in Sky.

Even imps, with their annoying amnesia and AoE silence, are better xp than anything you can get pre-ToAU.

And really, Pecking Flurry isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things. It goes through shadows (which makes it suck) but it could be a lot worse.

[Malacite]

Seriously, Rushing Drub (or w/e the hell it's called) scares me a lot more, especially the BLU mamool who can Vorpal Blade your ass @.@

But that's what Guard & Third Eye are for.

[Icemage]

Point by point:

Originally Posted by Takelli

They may be the weakest, but there could be something better out there that doesn't use pecking flurry, and can be biod to reduce its damage out put.

Nothing else uses Pecking Flurry, and everything except Dark Elementals can be Bio'd.

What most of the monsters you are talking about are in Aht Urgan. But, what about the non Aht Urgan monsters? The ones in the orginal area, that people used to Merit off of? Why not use them instead of the pitiful weak monsters people use now, that they have to sub ninja on to even stay alive? If they are so god damned weak, then why should they sub ninja, if they are THAT weak!

Because you earn two to three times the XP in Aht Urghan zones while the Astral Candescence is active under player control, and nearly double even when it's not.

The best non-ToAU camps clock in at around 14K per hour under optimal circumstances, and even that's generally not sustainable indefinitely.

And if you think Colibri are strong, boy have you got a rude awakening if someone ever takes you to, oh, Uleguerand Range for a demon-hunting XP party. Three times the work for 1/2 the XP.

There are creatures who have a stronger attack, but they don't have a multi hit liek Pecking Flurry that the DDs don't need to worry about. And they could just have Bio put on them, because they don't mimic your spells in Pre-Aht Urgan.

Be sure to comfort your melees with that after they drop dead after getting Aeroga III + Rushing Drubbed into oblivion by that Mamool Ja Philosopher (I've seek Galka monks drop dead instantly from this combo).

Everyone got so used to having a safety net under them after Aht Urgan came out, no one wants to Merit off other monsters that are "Stronger" in areas other than Aht Urgan. They can be enfeebled if they are too strong. Attack too fast? Slow, Too hard, Bio, high def? Dia. And you know what? The people can nuke the hell out of them if the Melee DD cant hit hard enough.

What do you think we did before Aht Urghan was released? Twiddled our thumbs? We know where all the best XP camps are. None of them hold a candle to the ToAU camps because the Aht Urghan zones have a large number of high level merit-worthy enemies that respawn more than twice as fast as any other zone.

I appreciate the out-of-the-box attempt at thinking, but there's a dozen of us in this thread who speak from long experience. We've been there, done that. All of it. In every zone.


Icemage

[Takelli]

Originally Posted by Icemage

And if you think Colibri are strong, boy have you got a rude awakening if someone ever takes you to, oh, Uleguerand Range for a demon-hunting XP party. Three times the work for 1/2 the XP.

I know for a fact that Colibri are weak. Infact. They are too weak IMO. You can deal insane amount of damage to them in afew seconds, and kill them. I don't eve have to try to kill one, or even try to heal when I am on rdm. I can AFK for like half the fight. Haste+Refresh, and I can just rest, go surf the web for 3 mins, and redo the cycle. Even with out another healer, I can just sit there and watch tv, or read as the party just pounds away, and I glance up after Hearing a pecking FLurry, and cast a Cure, and regen, then go back to reading. Its boring to fight those, as they are so easy to kill. And with all Drg party. They die to fast, I get so bored on rdm in those parties.

When I was playing as Rdm in non ToAU areas, I was having fun, always on my toes, keeping the party alive, and enjoying the job. As soon as I hit ToAU area on Rdm. I got bored of the job.

Originally Posted by Icemage

Nothing else uses Pecking Flurry, and everything except Dark Elementals can be Bio'd.

I know tha tnothing else uses Pecking Flurry, thats why I said what I did there.

Originally Posted by Icemage

Be sure to comfort your melees with that after they drop dead after getting Aeroga III + Rushing Drubbed into oblivion by that Mamool Ja Philosopher (I've seek Galka monks drop dead instantly from this combo).

I was talking about no ToUA monsters with what you have quoted. Mamool Ja's are ToAU monsters.

[Ketaru]

I was talking about no ToUA monsters with what you have quoted. Mamool Ja's are ToAU monsters.

We used to merit on Decorative Weapons in sky. And while it's hard to imagine, a lot of parties back then (they were called "roaming parties") were actually a lot like parties now: spam TP and nobody in particular tanks. The only differences were Signet did not grant bonuses like Refresh or EXP bonus, and BRDs were much harder to find. Though because BRDs were much harder to find, people were more willing to go without them, opting for 2 mages instead...and of course my whole bit on increased ways to spend your time on this game leading to higher expectations from partying experience.

But this was definitely no different from now: roaming parties pretty much steamrolled over any classical turtle-tank-skillchain-magic-burst party who dared to try and compete. In fact, even the manaburn parties out-EXP'd these parties (and today, I bet they probably still would). And the complaints back then were very much like the complaints today, that it was not fair that these seemingly simplistic parties out-EXP'd the traditional parties.

That's why when people say it's much too easy now, it's really no different. It was actually much like this before ToAU too, just with less EXP per kill and greater death penalties.

EDIT: This has gotten me all in the mood to respond to the next "Remember back when..." thread I see on Allakhazam. "Remember when people used to form roaming parties? It's just not like the old days in this game....owait!"

[Aksannyi]

Yeah but weapons are so much more fucking annoying than birds. I exp'ed on them once, that damn AoE stun shit. Fuck meriting in sky. And there was always downtime, really, because of the Curagas tossed after that AoE, they were just MP rape. I do not want to go back to that shit. No sir.

Disappointed that SE hasn't added any more great merit camps. There were a few people on BG who tested some of the new mobs in Xarc [s] but they were sucktastic to merit on, just like everything else but birds, really.

Not only are Colibri easy to fight, they're also really easy to get to. You don't have to travel for 45 minutes to get there. Now sky is great, but there's always one. There's always ONE. Who doesn't have sky warp. And you have to wait for them to ride from the Mea Crystal through Tahrongi, Through Meriphataud, Through Zi'Tah, Through Ro'Maeve, Through Hall of the Gods.

I've heard you can merit on some of the Yags in Oztroja [s] for average xp/hr, about 20kish, if you bring a PLD and maybe even a RDM and WHM combo (zomg) but it's such a pain in the ass to get to, no one wants to go.

Great merit camps have two things: 1. Plenty of easy, fast popping, fast dying, weak attacking mobs, and 2. Take about five seconds for everyone to get there. If SE can't top that, well, no one's going to merit anywhere else. Period.

Also, no one really merits on Imps anymore, either, though I've gotten some good xp/hr off of them. I guess because some of those camps are also populated with Soulflayers, and well, fuck those assholes.

Originally Posted by Malacite

Hell, a friend of mine has guarded spike flail.

Also, how on earth did I miss this gem before? That is beyond awesome.

[IfritnoItazura]

Takelli,

You're not 75, yet, right? Get there first, then you can experience merit parties first hand. You can speculate all you want now, but it's mostly empty talk. Have some actual experience under your belt, parse a few merit parties. Then, you'll have much clearer idea of what meriting is about.

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by Takelli

I was talking about no ToUA monsters with what you have quoted. Mamool Ja's are ToAU monsters.

There's plenty of non-ToAU enemies that can kill you just as dead in no time flat. Crystal Rain into Heavy Strike is quite deadly if you're in sky, even if you don't manage to get an accidental magic aggro link. Smite of Rage from weapons in Sky or Moon can kill you all on its lonesome. Condemnation from demons in Uleguerand can ruin your day since it's so easy to get blood aggro and/or links there from a mile away, not to mention the absolutely adorable combination of Level 5 Petrify into Eyes on Me. Spartois in King Ranperre's Tomb love to spawn on you and blood aggro - sometimes in multiples. Only the clinically insane will attempt to merit on Abraxas and Tavnazian Rams without a well tooled manaburn party. And you can write a book on the number of ways to die horribly in Lumorian zones.


Icemage

[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by Icemage

Only the clinically insane will attempt to merit on Abraxas and Tavnazian Rams without a well tooled manaburn party.

I am NOT insane!!






...its more like I dance to the beat of a different drummer!

[Malacite]

Originally Posted by Icemage

And you can write a book on the number of ways to die horribly in Lumorian zones.

Oh lord did I ever find this out the hardway during CoP 8-3...


You're fighting a fruitless battle Takelli, give it up. Shit, I (and likely many others) would much rather Campaign Battle than merit outside of Aht Urhgan since it's safe and potentially profitable (go go 100's occasionally dropping O.O). As others have said, some of us have been playing since or very close to release. We know there are other camps, the problem is they all suck by comparison. Besides that, if all the good merit camps are taken there's plenty of other stuff to do.

[Aksannyi]

Yeah, that's why I try to merit during the day, if there are people on for it. Noon EST is such a great time to start meriting, when the camps are usually wide open.

[IfritnoItazura]

Originally Posted by Icemage

Only the clinically insane will attempt to merit on Abraxas and Tavnazian Rams without a well tooled manaburn party. And you can write a book on the number of ways to die horribly in Lumorian zones.

Abraxas and Tavnazian Rams are quite doable with a SC+MB party. Fun, too, I may add. (Good exp? Well, not anymore, compared with ToAU merit options.)

Lumorian zones aren't all bad; indoor Aerns are nice for manaburn (due to RR), if we're talking about merits.

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by IfritnoItazura

Abraxas and Tavnazian Rams are quite doable with a SC+MB party. Fun, too, I may add. (Good exp? Well, not anymore, compared with ToAU merit options.)

It's all beer and skittles until one of the rams uses Great Bleat and drops a Max HP Down on your whole party. Abraxas aren't really a problem so long as you've got DDs using pointy weapons.

Lumorian zones aren't all bad; indoor Aerns are nice for manaburn (due to RR), if we're talking about merits.

The indoor Aerns do make for decent XP targets but the link rate is absurdly high and their vast array of jobs and TP attacks makes for occasionally sticky situations.

Really the only relatively "safe" XP option I've found in Lumoria are the Om'phuabos which swarm on the west side of Al'taieu near the red crystal tower (and even that's not terribly great at 75 - better if you can level sync down to around 70ish). Still not great XP, but low risk, and useful if people need components for obis.


Icemage