[Susurrus]

Originally Posted by Takelli

Blu has a self refresh, Haste, cures, damage dealing tools.

If a BLU sets self refresh, cures, and haste, he has very little space left over for any useful DD moves, must less other defensive spells such as zephyr mantle and cocoon.

Keep in mind, BLU doesn't automatically get all its spells, there's a limit to what it can set, and traits can only be set by setting other spells. Auto-refresh for one, takes up a LOT of points, and it is only 1 mp/tic anyway (same as PLD).

Also, BLU doesn't exactly have access to defense armor, and if you're setting /NIN you don't have provoke.

What level are you trying to do this?

[Kailea]

Originally Posted by Ziero

...those charts need some work.

I only glanced at them, but they look ok to me.

[Ziero]

Yea, they're ok if you barely look at them. But they don't hold up to closer inspection. There's no way a War/Blu is holding hate better then anything at 75.

[Kailea]

Originally Posted by Ziero

Yea, they're ok if you barely look at them. But they don't hold up to closer inspection. There's no way a War/Blu is holding hate better then anything at 75.

have you tried it?

[Ziero]

Limited MP, Blue spell slots, lower Blu Skill, long casting self buffs with short durations and War's fairly pitiful ability to build long lasting hate (being that Dmg is the only way they can create CE) clearly illustrates the numerous reasons why it doesn't work. Especially when compared to War/Dnc, which by it's very nature brings cures, which builds hate, which can be supplemented by Retaliate (giving it an actual use) and can be kept up indefinitely assuming the right target and support.

There's a reason why /Dnc is a better melee sub for solo then /Blu.

[Takelli]

Originally Posted by Susurrus

If a BLU sets self refresh, cures, and haste, he has very little space left over for any useful DD moves, must less other defensive spells such as zephyr mantle and cocoon.

Keep in mind, BLU doesn't automatically get all its spells, there's a limit to what it can set, and traits can only be set by setting other spells. Auto-refresh for one, takes up a LOT of points, and it is only 1 mp/tic anyway (same as PLD).

Also, BLU doesn't exactly have access to defense armor, and if you're setting /NIN you don't have provoke.

What level are you trying to do this?

I know that blu can only have a certain amount of spells per level. And if they do those combos they will have only a few spells left over. I also do know that its only 1 Mp/Tick for auto refresh, but with Brd refresh, and Rdms Refresh they can get up to 6 (I think) Mp/Tick.

They may be squishy, but put a Sch/Rdm in the comibnation they also can get Phalanx, and Stone Skin, as well as blink. (To help the Blu get their Defensive spells back up)

And with a Rdm as a healer as well, Mp Should not be an issue in the party.

[Ziero]

You just used four slots to support one tank. A Pld just needs Rdm in a traditional Exp setting and most missions. And that's where the difference lies.

[Takelli]

Blu (Tank/DD) Brd (Puller/Support) Sch/Rdm (Heal and support) Rdm/Sch (Heal and support (Oppitional)) DD X3(2).

I think thats a fairly good set up to support a tank, and keep going faster. You have a DD tank, a Brd to keep the Healer(s) Full of Mp, and able to heal, and an extra Rdm (Optional) to help keep the party going longer, and then Two to three DDs to increase kill speed.

So in total there are 4 DDs, One support/Puller, and one healer Sch/Rdm, or Rdm/Sch.

Or

3 DDs (One Tank/DD), One support/puller, 2 Healers and Support. Hmmm... I think thats actually what most parties are made of... Hmmm...

[Ziero]

So in otherwords, you want to have a TP burn...with a Blu...against IT mobs?

If the Blu is set up to hold hate and survive, he's going to be giving up a lot of his DD potential. And if he's the only one taking Dmg, he's going to need all of the support of both mages. With a Sch/Rdm the Blu can get Phalanx but not refresh, if they get a Rdm/Sch they get refresh but no Phalanx (unless they're 75 which then begs the question of why?). So if you want to load up your PT with as much support for the Blu as possible you'll need Brd, Rdm and Sch. Which leaves you little room for DDs.

So while Blu, DDx3, Brd, Sch or Rdm isn't a bad pt set up...it's just that it works best on lower level mobs where you don't really need a tank so stacking the Blu with defensive spells and abilities is fairly moot. Against ITs though, the Blu will get eaten as he burns all his MP and the Sch/Rdm's MP trying to stay alive.

[AzureDemon]

Blu tanking? Maybe at low levels...at high lvls the enemy can break through our Metallic Body in one or two hits as well as take out our shadows (if we are subbing nin) and the duration of cocoon is not too long.

Blu can semi tank to help a tank that is about to die. But that's it.

[Takelli]

Most Parties are Tp Burns now anyways. Everyone refuses to do a SC no matter how much I convince them it will kill X mob faster when you do X Sc, and Y MB.

I'm not saying for a lvl 75 Party though. Like Mid 66 where a Sch/Rdm can use Phalanx as AoE, and not on birds. On the monsters that people actually used to Kill. But then again, with the Sch, or Rdm healer, you can Sc, and MB the mob to kill it even faster as well. I would also assume that one of the DDs will have War subbed to help the blu if they ever get in trouble. I don't see mp much of being of an issue as well if the players are skilled and have decent gear.

[Ketaru]

Bear in mind SCH does not get Phalanx until the 60s because SCH is a job whose function is so dependent on its subjob. They don't even get Stoneskin until the late 50s, and that's only if they're subbing /WHM.

This is part of why I hate it when RDMs complain about how SCH got AoE Phalanx. Rarely is it ever the case that everybody in the party needs to be Phalanxed. Because when you use a Strategem charge to give Phalanx, that's a charge you didn't use to give your entire party Stoneskin, or a charge to give your entire party Enspell, or a charge to cut the MP cost of your next Cure IV or nuke, or worst of all in my opinion, a charge to unlock Addendum spells when you really, really need them.

Especially when you put it in the context is this thread. Want the SCH to Phalanx the group? Want them to give them Stoneskin? Want them to give the meleers Enspell? Want them to MB off the skillchain? Well, then you can't count on them to be able to do things like status removal on the fly. Don't need status removal? Guess what...you're probably fighting Colibri.

It's a mistake when people assume SCH really has an infinite capacity to use Strategems when not under the effect of their 2hr. And I often find I'm riding on the next recharge to be able to do something. "Sorry, can't Erase. Addendum: White and Enlightment not ready ><"

[Takelli]

The only actual thing that using a charge for an enspell is useful if if the DDs have nin subbed and are dual wielding, other than that, I don't think its that great. Especially when teh sch does aoe Blaze Spikes... >.< Thats not helping the party that much, sure, the mob hurts its self, but its not that great.

I do know how Sch Works (Got it to 44), and its a great job if its played by the people who know how to use it. Their ability to make magic Aoe, and even have a side pool of Mp, and reduce mp costs. I think thats actually fairly good of how they work. At first I thought Sch was over powered when I started to play it, but as soon as I realised at how bad they where are healing at low levels, and so on, It actually became fairly hard to play it until lvl 25.

As Sch levels up, they gain charges at a faster rate, which when timed correctly, they can buff an entire party, and have 1 left over for an emergency at higher levels.

[Ketaru]

Especially when teh sch does aoe Blaze Spikes...

SCH can't do AoE Blaze Spikes.

They can only AoE:
White Magic Healing/Enhancing
Black Magic Enfeebles/Dark Magic

Blaze Spikes is Black Magic Enhancing. There is only once exception to these rules, and that's Klimaform, a spell that's only useful to AoE in manaburns.

[Takelli]

Then it was probably a Smn that did some spike thing then. I remember seeing like an AoE blaze spikes in a party once... :/

Thanks for clarifying that for me.