[Malacite]

Why are we even discussing this?

As TGM pointed out, SE's lawyers are top notch and the whole point of having a ToS for a game is to absolve the proprietors of any possible wrong doing (barring someone in the company doing something retarded and against company policy)


If anything they may end up being counter-sued for wasting SE's time (and don't think it never happens either. It's rare I think, but it does happen some times)

[TheGrandMom]

It just kind of angers me when I see such frivolous crap like this going through the court system. I was seriously injured by the negligence of a company's employee. I need daily medication and will need major surgery eventually. My insurance company pays for FOUR PILLS A MONTH which is far from daily. They will not pay for the surgery. Because people have become sue happy, things are much more complicated now and the wheels move much much slower than they should. People with serious grievances are screwed in the process.

[Empedocles]

Originally Posted by TheGrandMom

Don't bother, just contact them via their website:

Makarem.com

My angle was that because I don't live in the United States, it can get quite costly calling there... I would like to burn their money on a stupid phone call like they are burning court time with a stupid lawsuit


Well thanks to television programs and the fact that most of us are outside the American Justice System, the States has always appeared sue-happy to me... has there been a significant rise in the past few years?

I would hope there would be a suitably lengthy (and perhaps expensive) process in order to actually get through to a point of getting recompense, in order to filter out those that are doing it for sh*ts and giggles and those with genuine grievances. Can you elaborate on this, or at least give me a few topics to wiki? (I'm quite useless at google searching... somehow I always fail)

[Kailea]

Originally Posted by Empedocles

My angle was that because I don't live in the United States, it can get quite costly calling there... I would like to burn their money on a stupid phone call like they are burning court time with a stupid lawsuit


Well thanks to television programs and the fact that most of us are outside the American Justice System, the States has always appeared sue-happy to me... has there been a significant rise in the past few years?

I would hope there would be a suitably lengthy (and perhaps expensive) process in order to actually get through to a point of getting recompense, in order to filter out those that are doing it for sh*ts and giggles and those with genuine grievances. Can you elaborate on this, or at least give me a few topics to wiki? (I'm quite useless at google searching... somehow I always fail)

its sad but true... I, or I should say my insurance company was sued, over alittle fender bender I had (no joke there was no damage to my car at all, and their car's trunk lock was broken... thats it) next thing I know, they are suing for all these "injuries" -.-

[Malacite]

Well, apparently Cleveland has the best healthcare in the entire world O.o so you could try moving there!


Seriously though, it's appalling how much time and money is wasted on litigation in the U.S. It's the only county in the world that recognizes punitive damages/claims/suits whatever.

[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by Malacite

Well, apparently Cleveland has the best healthcare in the entire world O.o so you could try moving there!


Seriously though, it's appalling how much time and money is wasted on litigation in the U.S. It's the only county in the world that recognizes punitive damages/claims/suits whatever.

I already travel to the Cleveland Clinic on a regular basis. It is a truly wonderful hospital and has an excellent staff!

[Seaofheather]

Should the fact that to play the game you need to put in a Credit Card Number be the warning sign that "Hey, this may not be free after all". I know if something told me to put my Credit Card in, that It must want the digits for a reason.

[Karinya]

Originally Posted by TheGrandMom

It just kind of angers me when I see such frivolous crap like this going through the court system. I was seriously injured by the negligence of a company's employee. I need daily medication and will need major surgery eventually. My insurance company pays for FOUR PILLS A MONTH which is far from daily. They will not pay for the surgery. Because people have become sue happy, things are much more complicated now and the wheels move much much slower than they should. People with serious grievances are screwed in the process.

This is the complete opposite of the truth. People with serious grievances are screwed *precisely because* of the propaganda that everyone who sues is a frivolous greedy asshole. The courts are overburdened because certain politicians would rather brag about cutting taxes than actually provide a decent level of public services to, y'know, the public.

I doubt this lawsuit will get anywhere. But it is a long way from typical, anyway. The typical lawsuit would be if you actually found a lawyer that could make your insurance company (or the company that was negligent in the first place) pay for what you need. That's what the "frivolous lawsuits" crowd is actually trying to keep out of the courts (and succeeding, too). Making a lot of noise about suits like this one is one of their main tactics.

Insurance companies make more money when they don't have to pay people. Who makes them pay people? Plaintiffs' lawyers. Of course they hate plaintiffs' lawyers. Apparently character assasxxxxtion is a lot cheaper than living up to their obligations.

[Verranicus]

Where are they getting the "penalties for paying late" from? O_o

[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by Karinya

This is the complete opposite of the truth.

Fyi, when you sue you do take up precious time within the legal system even if you never step foot in one. First they try to settle without filing and RARELY do they settle at this point. Then your lawyer has to file court papers which take up precious time for other people that file actual suits that have merit. So yes, it does clog the system and then officials make new laws because of frivolous lawsuits that clog the system even further. So people with genuine complaints do get the shaft because of asinine lawsuits like this one.

[Kailea]

Originally Posted by Verranicus

Where are they getting the "penalties for paying late" from? O_o

out their ass ;p

no really they are, because there are no penalties for "paying late" because you really cant "pay late" you stop payment, and when the month is over, your account is locked.

[Karinya]

Originally Posted by TheGrandMom

Fyi, when you sue you do take up precious time within the legal system even if you never step foot in one. First they try to settle without filing and RARELY do they settle at this point. Then your lawyer has to file court papers which take up precious time for other people that file actual suits that have merit. So yes, it does clog the system and then officials make new laws because of frivolous lawsuits that clog the system even further. So people with genuine complaints do get the shaft because of asinine lawsuits like this one.

I think you're missing the point. There is about a million times more bitching about "frivolous lawsuits" than there are actual frivolous lawsuits. "New laws because of frivolous lawsuits" are actually because of greedy bastards who don't want to have to pay GENUINE lawsuits.

Lawsuits have a purpose. But the legal system has been *purposefully* kneecapped by people who are better off when that purpose is not served well. Frivolous lawsuits have nothing to do with it, except as an excuse.

[ShepardG]

I've been reading about this and i'm starting to forumlate an opinon on the whole thing. There's a ton of Threads and such over on Alla, about the recent gardening bannings. Also, i've read this lawsuits legal documents and have come to the conclusion that the FFXI player base is apathetic.

Now don't get me twisted. I think this lawsuit is stupid, but not on the grounds of frivilty, but on the grounds of it's a fucking video game. Now herein lies the rub. It's a video game ran by a company that treats it's player base like shit.

TGM, Mal, Durahan, everyone on here, if your character/s were banned because you were gardening, not exploiting anything, and never even used 3rd party windower, you cannot tell me you wouldn't be upset. But what would you do?

Clearly the correct thing would be to move on, find a new video game, stop wasting your life infront of a computer screen, maybe write about it on these forums? Sue the company that banned you without any rhyme or reason, EVEN THOUGH, it clearly states that they can do just that? Start over and get back to enjoying the game for the games sake? And these are some of the things that every player would do.

But the people that don't get banned, say "oh well that sucks" or "I'm sure you were violating some rule, exploit, hack" or "Stop complaining" and "Thanks for making another thread about your shitty experience, QQ" and the F'ing community moves on, and does nothing to help correct a problem that at this point can AFFECT ANYONE WHO PAYS SQUARE ENIX to play their game. The community is apathetic: "as long as it's not my inbox with an LM-17 in it, or i can still punch in my token code to play, it's not my fucking problem"

Well what happens when it is your problem? And the community that you loved and enjoyed playing the game of FFXI straight turns their back on you. What do you do when you turned your back on so many others and then turns out they were trying to show you the light, only you were so blinded by apathy that you couldn't see it. You'd probably feel like a shit head wouldn't you? Well you'd be right to feel that way, because you'd be one.

I can't say wether suing this company will bring about any changes, but atleast he/she got off of thes fucking forums and attempted to change a system that is insulting to it's customers. I think the lawsuit shouldn't have been worded or focused so much on 80% of the things it was focused on, but SE's bussiness practices in North America definetly need to be brought into the light.

I mean, shit, the community sure as hell doesn't do anything about it.

*steps of soap box*

Now I love ya'll to death you all know this, but, i've gotten sick of how the community treats players who get dealt shitty hands. It bothers the shit out of me.

As far as the lawsuit stuff goes, yeah it's a waste of tax payer dollars, and goverment resources, and the legal systems time to boot. I hate it too. I truly do. But I'll be done paying for ffxi for a month, i'm gonna take a break, save my 30 bucks (two accounts + mules) and try and start something game wide. One month of ffxi income gone will definetly put a few memo's on the right peoples desks.

Could you do it? Could you turn your payment off, and not play FFXI for 1 month? Then why don't you? what if everyone else did? we as teh community are the ones who will have to be the voice for ourselves, we can't let mr. sue happy do it alone (especially not with that lawsuit). Spread the word:

September 2009 FFXI strike incoming, because we love FFXI

[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by Karinya

I think you're missing the point. There is about a million times more bitching about "frivolous lawsuits" than there are actual frivolous lawsuits.

And on this we'll have to agree to disagree. I have a few lawyers in the family and we often gravitate to topics about law at family get togethers. One thing we all agree on is our sue happy nation and how at least 1/2, if not more, of these lawsuits hurt the system and others for someone to have a chance at making a profit. Then to end up on the end of the stick that I'm on now only accentuates the issue for me.

Originally Posted by ShepardG

TGM, Mal, Durahan, everyone on here, if your character/s were banned because you were gardening, not exploiting anything, and never even used 3rd party windower, you cannot tell me you wouldn't be upset. But what would you do?

But the people that don't get banned, say "oh well that sucks" or "I'm sure you were violating some rule, exploit, hack" or "Stop complaining" and "Thanks for making another thread about your shitty experience, QQ" and the F'ing community moves on, and does nothing to help correct a problem that at this point can AFFECT ANYONE WHO PAYS SQUARE ENIX to play their game. The community is apathetic: "as long as it's not my inbox with an LM-17 in it, or i can still punch in my token code to play, it's not my fucking problem"

Well what happens when it is your problem? And the community that you loved and enjoyed playing the game of FFXI straight turns their back on you. What do you do when you turned your back on so many others and then turns out they were trying to show you the light, only you were so blinded by apathy that you couldn't see it. You'd probably feel like a shit head wouldn't you? Well you'd be right to feel that way, because you'd be one.

Well I'll address 2 points of this. First point is what would I do if I were unfairly banned (which in my opinion happens VERY VERY rarely). I would exhaust all avenues of trying to get my character reinstated obviously. If after that I was unable to do so, I'd shrug my shoulders and move on. There are always grey areas in life and sometimes we end up in them.

The 2nd point is about people not believing others when they say they've been banned unfairly. When I get involved with an MMO, I like to actively participate in the community. In doing so I hear a lot of stories, meet a lot of different people, and spend a significant amount of time helping others. After years of doing this, I have developed a keen intuition about people. I have also learned that the internet is the easiest place to lie. And I'm sure I've become jaded from being on the receiving end of the stick to many a lie. I've went to bat for people with GM's in games, made phone calls on their behalf, or contacted a company liaison and fought for them. And I've been made to look the fool far too many times by people who lied to me and were actually breaking rules/duping/cheating/etc. So I'm sorry but I usually gravitate to the side that the person is lying and they are on their own to get the issue figured out. It's the way of the internet, lie to get your way/get what you want. Trust is a rare commodity and not something I hand out easily.

[Raydeus]

Originally Posted by ShepardG

Could you do it? Could you turn your payment off, and not play FFXI for 1 month? Then why don't you? what if everyone else did? we as teh community are the ones who will have to be the voice for ourselves, we can't let mr. sue happy do it alone (especially not with that lawsuit). Spread the word:

September 2009 FFXI strike incoming, because we love FFXI

I have stopped playing XI before (and will probably stop again by the end of the month unless the update is freaking awesome) because I LOVE it.

In fact I love XI so much that I'm having a blast playing Ryu ga Gotoku 3, Ace Frontier, Persona 3 and 4 undubbed and many other games. All because of how much I care about XI.





PS > Hmm, I think I'm starting to see why I'm still single.