[Elwynn]

Okay, first it started with a huge spike in the price of water crystals in Bastok, and a shorter spike in lightning crystals. And now they're like a trail of ants between the Bastok Mines MH and Proud Beard, the RSE1 seller NPC, and obviously a convienent place to sell shit.

I saw some post here that let me put together that they're probably doing gardening with the crystals, and getting lots of NPCable junk from it. But the other day I noticed something very wierd.

See, they're not exactly going between the MH and Proud Beard. On the way back they're stopping at Leonie, who is listed in wiki as a "Room Renter" NPC. Old timers will have to fill me in here, but I've heard that in the old days, you had to talk to an NPC to get into the MH. Except now, when you talk to the NPC, it just tells you "duh, here's what a mog house is", or if you're from out of town, "duh, the mog house is over there."

But they're stopping at Leonie and disappearing, presumably into the Mog House. I've even seen them come out of the MH, then go right to Leonie. WTF exactly are they doing at this NPC, how, and why? Why not just walk right into the MH, it's only a few steps farther? Even more interesting, I checked the price of Lightning Crystals on the AH, and the two names that showed up were both current ant-trail runners. Have they discovered some sort of hack with this NPC that lets them do something easier?


I'm so happy now that Windurst's AH and the nearest merchant NPC are such a walk from the MH. I don't ever see the ant-trail RMT mules there like the infestation in Bastok.

[Durahansolo]

Originally Posted by Elwynn

Old timers will have to fill me in here, but I've heard that in the old days, you had to talk to an NPC to get into the MH. Except now, when you talk to the NPC, it just tells you "duh, here's what a mog house is", or if you're from out of town, "duh, the mog house is over there."

"Well Sonny....Back in my day"....Yeah you used to have to stop at the rental npc and they'd transfer your Mog to the rental house. Now it automatically does it lol.

Originally Posted by Elwynn

But they're stopping at Leonie and disappearing, presumably into the Mog House. I've even seen them come out of the MH, then go right to Leonie. WTF exactly are they doing at this NPC, how, and why? Why not just walk right into the MH, it's only a few steps farther? Even more interesting, I checked the price of Lightning Crystals on the AH, and the two names that showed up were both current ant-trail runners. Have they discovered some sort of hack with this NPC that lets them do something easier?

In the instance that I reported, they were 2hring before they went into the mog house. I figured that maybe this was to keep track of who had done the deed and who hadn't.

I haven't noticed them in Sandy doing whatever they are doing but I have noticed them in Bastok. I was caught spying on them and then they started repeating emotes at me like I was a bot or something lulz.

[Taskmage]

I think probably they're using the open mog house feature to quickly transfer items between characters. Open mog, fill the hosts inventory with items and trade them out to the other characters, fill inventory again and repeat. Saves running back and forth to the delivery NPC with 8 items at a time. Some of my friends with multiple accounts do this to unload gear or crafting materials en masse.

[Elwynn]

Originally Posted by Taskmage

I think probably they're using the open mog house feature to quickly transfer items between characters. Open mog, fill the hosts inventory with items and trade them out to the other characters, fill inventory again and repeat. Saves running back and forth to the delivery NPC with 8 items at a time. Some of my friends with multiple accounts do this to unload gear or crafting materials en masse.

That could explain why the first time I noticed this, there were 5 "worker ants", plus another that I saw go in and out a few times.

[Grizzlebeard]

Probably stocking up on Bonanza Marbles as well.

[Ziero]

They won't be around long enough to get marbles, even if they don't get banned outright they're just using the 14 day trial to run their scheme.

Easy way for SE to fix it, limit trial accounts to 2 Flower pots max.

[zensaber]

Limiting a trial will only hurt people trying out the game for the first time, RMT will find another way, they always do.

[Elwynn]

Originally Posted by zensaber

Limiting a trial will only hurt people trying out the game for the first time

That's the attitude from SE which which has gotten us six months or so of RMT /tell spam, which they're only now starting to acknowledge.

This is supposed to be a trial period for new users who have never played the game before, or possibly are considering returning after being away for a long time. The trial period is not supposed to be for experienced RMT (or players) to farm shit and sign up a new trial period when the old one is done. Trial users aren't going to "try" fishing for hours on end, or fill their mog house with 10 flowerpots, or buy crystals at 4k/stack.

For what it's worth, I think I've seen one of the names of the "worker ants" around for a while (when you're from Windurst, you notice a name like "Winda"), so they're not even necessarily on the trial period. They're just another form of RMT grinding that SE hasn't stumbled onto yet, even if it's been going on for months or years.

Especially since the ending of the monthly STF report, I think SE has had a total Sgt. Schultz attitude about RMT behavior that isn't on their Official List Of Things RMT Do: "I see nothing! I know nothing!" It's like they practically have to have their noses rubbed into it to acknowledge it. How many of you do not know what "/sh BR74ed!" means? And SE is only now adding a GM form letter response for that crap?

[zensaber]

Well, although this is pretty new to final fantasy xi, it's nothing compared to how it is in other games. It really sucks I know, but very few companies ever do anything about it really. You should see it in lineage II :X

[Ameroth]

Originally Posted by Elwynn

Trial users aren't going to "try" fishing for hours on end, or fill their mog house with 10 flowerpots, or buy crystals at 4k/stack.

I don't think you can prove this assumption.

[zensaber]

Originally Posted by Ameroth

I don't think you can prove this assumption.

Yea, for all you know they just have a friend playing who is giving them tips on what to do to make gil and stuff.

[Aksannyi]

But when you first started the game, in you first two weeks, did you even have the money to start either of those two things? Flowerpots from NPCs are like what, 2k? That's a lot for a newbie.

There were other better ways for newbies to make money anyway. Farming/selling crystals, questing (rabbit hides and bat wings say hi), and I don't think it would be that terrible to limit things that the RMT have been known to abuse, when very few new players start out making their gil that way.

Limiting something that affected a LOT of players, new and old, such as the NPC price of easily farmed things was a boneheaded move. A lot of players used those methods to make gil, and they really hurt them by nerfing it. I can't stand here and give an example of what would have been a better solution, but that hurt a lot of longtime players. I somehow don't think a new player is going to be turned off by the game if they can't garden. Hell, I've been playing for five years and I've gardened probably two-three months out of that. I'm saying basically there's so much more this game has to offer.

Limiting trials would hurt the RMT I think. In some respect it would hurt the new players, but I happen to think they understand why it is that way. When I started WoW and I couldn't /t anyone because I was under a trial account, I didn't question it. That's just how it is. I think new players would understand.

And a trial is only two weeks, right? I think they can wait a whole two weeks to get a flowerpot or a fishing pole.

[Grizzlebeard]

Just stop people with trial accounts from being able to Trade and use the Delivery Box.

[zensaber]

Stop them from using trade? Ok, look at this from SE's point of view, would not being able to trade or send items/gil to people really be the best image to send to a new player? Like, I know RMT is quite bothersome, and I understand that it needs to be stopped, but I do not believe we need to take such action that would aversely effect other players. Although I appreciate your input on a possible solution, just seems a bit harsh, because that would effect a lot of potential subscribers. ((new ones that is)) New subscribers are very important to a game's health, and I think they out weight the drawbacks of holes in the system that RMT personnel use. At least in SE's point of view.

[Aksannyi]

Okay, I'm gonna tell you about the restrictions on trial accounts in WoW, that seem to work and don't seem to adversely affect anyone.

They can't send tells unless you send them one first.
They can't join a guild.
They can't accept trades.
They can't accept deliveries.
Pretty sure they can't even join parties (not that you need to at that point).

Basically it allows you to experience some of what the game has to offer, but encourages you to get the full version of the game to be able to fully experience it. CK and I were going to try it only on trial, but we wanted to be able to join the guild with our friends from the ls and talk to people; socialize, so we bought the full game. Being in the trial game didn't hinder our experience at all from starting. We got with a friend on MSN and told them our in-game names, and they chatted with us that way, since they had to send the tells to us first. We got around it, and it's not a big deal. They can still communicate in say, trade channels, local channels, and yell. What I'm saying is, all of these things are minor annoyances but still give new players a chance to enjoy the game and determine if they want to purchase the full version.

All of this is a bit cumbersome to a new player, but you would get to like level 10 in FF in two weeks, right? Then your trial would be up, and you could trade or join parties or whatever. I don't think I remember needing to trade anything when I was a newbie, and there are ways around that (hello, bazaaring stuff for 1g). I don't think it would be so terrible to limit trial accounts the way WoW has, especially to cut back on a lot of the bullshit level 1 new players who are obviously RMT. And the fucking annoying tells that I still get multiple times a day, even with (not official) chat filters that attempt to - but don't completely - cut them out.

Sometimes we gotta suffer a bit to get rid of a bigger problem. And seriously, I'm not gonna cry if trial characters get limits imposed upon them. Someone who is going to be turned off by that sort of thing would have probably quit within their first year anyway.