[Jarre]

I am yet to do promies or even start zilhurt mission let alone TOA and WOTG that I have bought and registered, the latest 3 downlaodable only expansion packs they are releasing I will miss until I getthrough some of the previous content.

[Andromache]

I don't think it was necessarily worth 10 bucks, but I liked the cs's and the rewards. I got a few nice augmented gears, I giggled at the mandy fight because it was very very very cute, the only thing I didn't like was the farming. The rest of the missions were fun.

I will end up buying the new chapters (moogles and shantotto.... it's gonna be sooooo cute) because this one was the one I was least looking forward to.

Plus, knowing how things are going so far, they have to be able to make a full set out of the body pieces AND make them storable... or people are going to start whining.

[Murphie]

I haven't gotten ACP yet, and I'll probably hold off on the next expansion as well. $10 is about a third or fourth of a full retail expansion, and from what I'm hearing, the content added by ACP isn't even a fraction of that. Not having ACP isn't going to limit me in any real way, so it may remain an option unused forever. I guess we'll see.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Karinya

I think they intended the early and middle parts of ACP to be accessible to non-75s (i.e. the parts that give you non-75 aug gear), but they didn't put level caps on them because of the enormous volume of whining about CoP (which is *still* ongoing, see Feba above).

I would bet money that level caps were part of the original design of ACP and the suits nixed them because they were so unpopular in CoP, and that several of the ACP fights would be a lot more tense if you weren't just powering through them with 75s. Imagine those mandies with about a 40 cap, or the beastmen BCNM at 60. Not such a joke now, are they? It'd be like doing the RoZ job quests *at 30* or AFs/Shadowlord at 60, which some of the other really old players here might remember actually doing before the game was crawling with 75s. Those were challenging and fun fights - at the level they were designed for. Now they're jokes, or even soloable.

Without the caps ACP is just a bunch of running around farming (the only part they kept the cap on was the Delkfutt run, which most people ruin the challenge of by bringing along a high level escort). So congratulations crybabies, you broke ACP.

And if I'm right about what happened to ACP and if the suits are reading this: the game now *is* crawling with 75s, and if it's possible for people to trivialize content by coming as a level 75 job/bringing a 75 friend, they will do that *and* then complain about how there was no challenge, as this thread testifies. Low level missions *can* be a challenge to high level players - but only if their level isn't allowed to trivialize them, i.e. if they are level capped. Next time the devs tell you that, listen.

P.S. I know a few people who repeat the early/middle parts of ACP for aug gear, which you can't do if you don't have it, so it's not *just* about the one reward at the end. The randomness of the aug items makes it kind of a time sink, so repeating the same fights over and over until you get the gear you want isn't just for 70+s anymore.

This is pretty much how i felt about the content in general. Even though not all the Augments were great to my 75 job, I saw this piece of gear good for my lower level THF, that piece of gear working for my WHM and that other piece of gear as decent for my COR's AGI build. Then there is the Ruby Earring with +2 STR and +3 Ranged attack still out there waiting for me, then there's the Pet Accuracy and Pet attack accessories as well - pet stats aren't just on the ACP end rewards.

You can even make a decent spot of gil on some of the craftable items you might be rewarded with. Enough to cover expenses on the missions, at least.

I found the Fei'yin fight alone to be worth the price of entry. I liked the goblin THF, he was part of what gave the fight its tension. I actually would love to see THF mobs like that in the general game.

On the CoP end, its not really the level caps that make CoP hard, its the fact that players are spoiled on being 75 and don't take them seriously that makes them hard. Everyone seems to think they're a shining star and thier ego takes this massive bruising when they don't get the win right off the bat.

While some people are outright paranoid about pickup groups for EXP parties I'm really only that way about CoP missions and late RoZ/ToA missions. I don't want pick-ups for that stuff. I don't want the "shining star," I just want the people who have thier shit together and are capable of dealing with mistakes when they happen. Not the people that panic the moment a mob looks at them and they start taking damage.

I mean, damn, folks. You're not dying for real in there. Just a game.

And yet, for all my enjoyment of the ACP Fei'yin fight and it not really being that difficult - I keep hearing about people who never want to do it again just because they got SAed by the teleporting goblin. Because those beastmen didn't lay down and die the moment they entered the arena. Shining stars, what more can I say?

[Cruz]

Nah. No more money for SE. I think I'm going to let my account run out. It's a sad day, my good friends on ffxionline.com. And with no good MMOs out there...I'm going to have to...gulp...go outside. OH GOSH...THE SUN! IT BURNS!

[Murphie]

I spend enough time in the sun as it is. Spending a bit of time indoors playing an MMO is good for me.

[Shirai]

Yes I will buy the two other expansions, even though only for completion.

I for one enjoyed ACP, the only beef I have with it however is that I feel it was rushed and too short for the 10 bucks I dished out for it.
I hope 'MKD' and and 'ASA' will be longer, but only time will tell although I do have high hopes for A Shantotto Accession.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I have a feeling the one they're going to go all-out on is The Shantotto Ascension.

Because this is the year of Shantotto, it was so ever since SE put her Dissidia.

Nah. No more money for SE. I think I'm going to let my account run out. It's a sad day, my good friends on ffxionline.com. And with no good MMOs out there...I'm going to have to...gulp...go outside. OH GOSH...THE SUN! IT BURNS!

I'm not terribly convinced you were an FFXI player to start with.

Also, going outside is overrated. The sun is the least of my concerns, its the fact that I live in the southeast and humidity is my personal kryptonite. I don't mind getting sweaty, I just prefer there be some effort on my part before it starts happening.

[Andromache]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

I found the Fei'yin fight alone to be worth the price of entry. I liked the goblin THF, he was part of what gave the fight its tension. I actually would love to see THF mobs like that in the general game.

I loved this fight, the THF mob was so tricky you never really knew when you were going to be the mage attacked... and the frypan move was very cute. I thought it was a tricky fight, and it took us a good couple of trys to figure out how to beat it (we usually low man stuff, I think we had five for this fight...)

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

On the CoP end, its not really the level caps that make CoP hard, its the fact that players are spoiled on being 75 and don't take them seriously that makes them hard. Everyone seems to think they're a shining star and thier ego takes this massive bruising when they don't get the win right off the bat.

I don't know how many people like this I have come across. COP missions take focus, and when people don't know how to do their jobs, it can be very difficult. Especially if the people you are helping have solo'ed to 75... (FOV or Campaign...) then they have no clue what to do in a party situation.

[Cruz]

Originally Posted by Murphie

I spend enough time in the sun as it is. Spending a bit of time indoors playing an MMO is good for me.

Hehehe, that's really cool!

[Ziero]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

As far as the brevity and short story of ACP goes - I blame the playerbase for this. They complain and complain about the "running around" they have to do. They fuss about the preparations they have to make for certain missions. They fuss about the difficulty of CoPs.

Really, should I be surprised this content was braindead easy with the only smidge of difficulty coming from the last fight? That's no different than ToA was or how WotG have been so far. I blame the players for that too. Those that couldn't stand the time investment, difficulty or coordination to complete Zilart or even CoPs are the ones that made things this way.

...did you just say the RoZ missions were more difficult and needed more coordination the ToAU and WotG missions? The RoZ mission line was easily the worst mission line in the entire game. In every way shape and form RoZ missions sucked hard until the very end. And the reason ACP sucks so hard is because it's made by the same guy that did RoZ. For all the bitching people do about "running around" for missions, that's exactly what was wrong with ACP. Because it's *nothing* but running around, farming crap and 2 actual BC fights.

P.S. the only hard part about CoP was the running around. ToAU and WotG are much better mission chains because they removed that part.

Originally Posted by Raydeus

Unless of course ACP content isn't finished yet and we can expect future updates for it.

Has SE mentioned anything about that?

ACP is over and done. It was the biggest selling point of spending 10 bucks on a mini-expansion, in that all it's content is given to you all at once. If they have to go back and add to it, then it's pretty much admiting how badly it sucked.

Originally Posted by Feba

The problem with COP-level difficulty isn't that it requires the player to be skilled, it's that it requires their party to be skilled.

I could be the best BLM in the world, but if I have a shitty tank, I'm never going to clear a mission. COP is more a test of logistics and patience than of skill.

CoP fights, with the exception of One to be Feared, are no more difficult then any other mission BC in this game. The Mammets are easy, the Trackers are easy, every single BC fight in CoP, with the exception of the first Airship fight, can be won on a dry run. As long as you have smart players, every mission chain can be won easily. It's the sheer amount of globe hopping you have to do that makes CoP seem hard.

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

We took the easy missions in ToA and WotG and very few complained. Most of that stuff could be done in a day, too, it just they placed forced waiting times on it to create the illusion of length.

Thankfully, most players have proven to have shit for brains and made thier reward into a free Hauby. It shows me the players SE needs to stop listening to. Maybe SE should look at it that way as well.

The reason why ToAU seems so "easy" is because all the unneeded traveling is removed and you get sent directly to most of the BC areas. Even WotG has cut 90% of the traveling out to get you to the fights faster. ToAU and WotG fights(so far) are no harder or easier then CoP fights.

And most people go with a "free hauby" because it's statistically better then the majority of the stat combos they can come up with. I know I'll be doing that for my Mirke on thf because it would make it a strong TP piece and a strong WS piece regardless of what sub I was using.

Originally Posted by Karinya

I think they intended the early and middle parts of ACP to be accessible to non-75s (i.e. the parts that give you non-75 aug gear), but they didn't put level caps on them because of the enormous volume of whining about CoP (which is *still* ongoing, see Feba above).

It's common knowledge that ACP was supposed to be open to players of all levels 30+. But putting a cap on the second to last mission blows you're theory of "they didn't cap it cause we'd whine!" right out of the water because, and get this, they *did* cap part of the mission. And even if the did cap earlier missions, ACP would *still* be a failure of an expansion because of how little actual content it offered. There is only *two* BC fights...three if you count the lolmandies.

And if I'm right about what happened to ACP and if the suits are reading this: the game now *is* crawling with 75s, and if it's possible for people to trivialize content by coming as a level 75 job/bringing a 75 friend, they will do that *and* then complain about how there was no challenge, as this thread testifies. Low level missions *can* be a challenge to high level players - but only if their level isn't allowed to trivialize them, i.e. if they are level capped. Next time the devs tell you that, listen.

The lack of challenge in ACP doesn't come from the lack of a level cap, it comes from a lack of actual fights. The three popped goblins, the mandy parade, the Beastmen BC fight and the final boss are the *only* fights in the entirety of ACP. Level caps wouldn't make this mission chain a challenge because there are no fights to actually be challenging.

For 10 bucks this add-on "Scenario" just wasn't worth it, and unless the next two see some rave reviews across the board, I'm not going to bother with either of them. We have seen SE create better and better missions fights and storylines, getting more involved and unique while cutting out the fat of unneeded travel time and endless explanatory CS with nothing but talking. We've gone from the mediocre RotZ, to the punishing-but-rewarding CoP to the involved but to the point ToAU to the potential epicness of WotG, seeing *everything* about the missions improve. Better CS, unique battle conditions, streamlined story progression and increasing rewards...only for them to come back and give us this ACP trash?

In the end, the biggest problem with ACP is that it's being made by the same guy who did RotZ...and the RotZ missions were the weakest ones in the entire game...before ACP came out.

And just for the record:

It'd be like doing the RoZ job quests *at 30* or AFs/Shadowlord at 60

I've done both of these, LONG before level sync was added, and with people who had higher level jobs, but I would refuse to let them use those jobs to help me. They were still push-over fights. Especially that joke of a mob the Shadowlord. It seems the only way to get a challenge out of him is to either fight him at 50 or to solo him.

[Nuriko]

The second time around, I duoed SL on BLM75 with a PLD75 ... it wasn't terribly difficult.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Ziero

...did you just say the RoZ missions were more difficult and needed more coordination the ToAU and WotG missions? The RoZ mission line was easily the worst mission line in the entire game. In every way shape and form RoZ missions sucked hard until the very end.

Bullshit.

In context to when and how RoZ missions were released, yes, it was more difficult.

And really, when did you ever do the normal version of the Ark Angels fight?

Every last person I've ever met was forced to wait to do the allianced version of the fight for the earrings. No earring there is worth a damn except Suppanomimi, so why did you have to do the allianced fight if you don't need it?

People. Make. Things. Harder. Than. They. Have. To. Be.

Not to mention, back when endgame content was just RoZ, people liked to tack drama on the matter. How many times did someone backstab my LS after we got them sky access? Friends today, stepping stones the next. Made missions real fun.

CoP fights, with the exception of One to be Feared, are no more difficult then any other mission BC in this game. The Mammets are easy, the Trackers are easy, every single BC fight in CoP, with the exception of the first Airship fight, can be won on a dry run. As long as you have smart players, every mission chain can be won easily. It's the sheer amount of globe hopping you have to do that makes CoP seem hard.

As long as you have smart players.

As long as.

Again, you're bullshitting.

Win require people that actually listen, come prepared and are on-time. Even while prepared, the promy bosses and Mammet fights are pretty formidable.

How many people do you know that go boarderlining 75 into Dynamis and then cry for R3s when they delevel?

That's like 90% of the people you'll get for CoPs. They're just about doing the missions, not doing them well. Take formidable boss fight, add morons and watch the difficulty ramp up. Even with ToAs you get these goobers that die on the way to the Ashu Talif because they think they're too good to buy oils and powders... but they always forget about those imps or that shades aggro Spectral Jig.

So there I sit at the Ashu Talif entrance, waiting for these idiots to get there so I can beats some low-HP shades silly.

The reason why ToAU seems so "easy" is because all the unneeded traveling is removed and you get sent directly to most of the BC areas. Even WotG has cut 90% of the traveling out to get you to the fights faster. ToAU and WotG fights(so far) are no harder or easier then CoP fights.

Travelling only added to the difficulty of completing missions in the given time you have to do them, not difficulty to the fights or the content. Travelling is just raw time consumption. Time wasted in BCs and lack of preparation pre-fight are the only difficulties in the BCNMs.

Not showing up on time consumes the time it takes to complete the missions. This time varies from group to group. People have different schedules and big part of getting CoPs done was the coordination and preparedness of the group.

Any action taken that wastes time makes things harder. Travelling only becomes an issue when you decide meritting was more important than getting your cutscenes done by the time your group agreed upon. Time only becomes an issue when its wasted on AFKs and laying there dead in the BC because you didn't bring reraise.

And really, you're saying that Wivre fight is no less difficult than Ouryu? Lets take away the travel factor for a moment and just imagine the two in a fight against each other. Do you really think Mr. Styrofoam Defenseja is going to have a chance against capped Ouryu?

And most people go with a "free hauby" because it's statistically better then the majority of the stat combos they can come up with. I know I'll be doing that for my Mirke on thf because it would make it a strong TP piece and a strong WS piece regardless of what sub I was using.

I'm not taking issue with THF, DRG or MNK here, but its stupid to do it with PLD, WAR, SAM, NIN, BST, RDM, COR and others when purchaseable/Assault alternatives already exist.

The lack of challenge in ACP doesn't come from the lack of a level cap, it comes from a lack of actual fights. The three popped goblins, the mandy parade, the Beastmen BC fight and the final boss are the *only* fights in the entirety of ACP. Level caps wouldn't make this mission chain a challenge because there are no fights to actually be challenging.

Contradiction Alert: You just said fights are challenge, but said none of the fights in CoP, RoZ and ToA were hard. Confronation alone does not equal challenge nor does confrontation frequency equal challenge. Challenge only exists in fomidable enemies. Are you saying the BCNMs in these fights do not contain formidable enemies?

Which is harder: Chain #100 on colibri with your THF or soloing Novv the Whitehearted with your THF? Which would you mark as an accomplishment? Which one was more formidable - The Ashu Tailf fight or ACP Fei'Yin BC?

For 10 bucks this add-on "Scenario" just wasn't worth it,

This rationale never ceases to be amusing because its sooooooo subjective.

Did you go see X-Men Origins: Wolverine? Was that worth $10?

Star Trek?

Terminator: Salvation?

Of the three, I'd only say Star Trek was worth the $10 I spent, but people who don't give a damn about the integrity of a character like Wolverine might have thought thier $10 on his movie was well spent.

I've made much worse purchases with $10 than ACP, so I'm not really seeing a reason to complain about it.

[Ziero]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

Bullshit.

In context to when and how RoZ missions were released, yes, it was more difficult.

And really, when did you ever do the normal version of the Ark Angels fight?

Every last person I've ever met was forced to wait to do the allianced version of the fight for the earrings. No earring there is worth a damn except Suppanomimi, so why did you have to do the allianced fight if you don't need it?

People. Make. Things. Harder. Than. They. Have. To. Be.

Not to mention, back when endgame content was just RoZ, people liked to tack drama on the matter. How many times did someone backstab my LS after we got them sky access? Friends today, stepping stones the next. Made missions real fun.

.....what in the hell are you talking about? How does any of that have to do with how crappy RotZ missions were set up and how easy they are to run through with a half braindead group? My complaint was how *easy* RotZ was, so making it HARDER on purpose is something I WANT to do so it's not just another braindead fight. RotZ sucked because most of the fights were stupid simple...even back when they were new, the fact it sent you to every corner of the world and back just to get a 2 second CS or some key item and had you spend more time running around then fighting anything.

As long as you have smart players.

As long as.

Again, you're bullshitting.

*Every* mission is hard if you have idiots with you. ToAU, WotG, ACP, CoP, you'll fail em all if you have a group of morons and gimps. The only exception is the majority of RotZ....because it's that simple.

Win require people that actually listen, come prepared and are on-time. Even while prepared, the promy bosses and Mammet fights are pretty formidable.

How many people do you know that go boarderlining 75 into Dynamis and then cry for R3s when they delevel?

That's like 90% of the people you'll get for CoPs. They're just about doing the missions, not doing them well. Take formidable boss fight, add morons and watch the difficulty ramp up. Even with ToAs you get these goobers that die on the way to the Ashu Talif because they think they're too good to buy oils and powders...but they always forget about those imps or that shades aggro Spectral Jig.

So there I sit at the Ashu Talif entrance, waiting for these idiots to get there so I can beats some low-HP shades silly.

And this...this is just pure BS. All you need is the right jobs, the right items and half decent players who can follow simple strategy (something you should have for EVERY mission fight in this game). Of course if you base everything in this game on the lowest common denominator then every fight will be rough.

Travelling only added to the difficulty of completing missions in the given time you have to do them, not difficulty to the fights or the content. Travelling is just raw time consumption. Time wasted in BCs and lack of preparation pre-fight are the only difficulties in the BCNMs.

Not showing up on time consumes the time it takes to complete the missions. This time varies from group to group. People have different schedules and big part of getting CoPs done was the coordination and preparedness of the group.

Any action taken that wastes time makes things harder. Travelling only becomes an issue when you decide meritting was more important than getting your cutscenes done by the time your group agreed upon. Time only becomes an issue when its wasted on AFKs and laying there dead in the BC because you didn't bring reraise.

Traveling adds length to a mission, making it seem harder then it actually is. The hardest part about the Snoll fight isn't the Snoll itself, it's getting there. The hardest part about the Promy fights used to be the PROMY itself(which actually was fun, until it was gimped), not the boss. When the mobs in your path are more dangerous then the mob you're going to fight at the end, it's a little messed up. ToAU only had one fight like that, where everything else was just you and the boss. CoP? Half the missions are trekking through zones filled with IT++ mobs to fight something that'll drop in two minutes.

And really, you're saying that Wivre fight is no less difficult than Ouryu? Lets take away the travel factor for a moment and just imagine the two in a fight against each other. Do you really think Mr. Styrofoam Defenseja is going to have a chance against capped Ouryu?

Seeing as I've done both fights repeatedly, and have won AND lost against both, yes, I think Mr Usesanundispelablestoneskinanda600ishaoeattackcons tantlyja can stand up to "All I can do is breath dirt and flail idiots" Ouryu.

I'm not taking issue with THF, DRG or MNK here, but its stupid to do it with PLD, WAR, SAM, NIN, BST, RDM, COR and others when purchaseable/Assault alternatives already exist.

Sam and War really have no better alternatives for this body other then free Hauby either, and I have yet to see a Pld, Nin, Bst or Cor go with 10 acc/att. But if they do, then they're idiots.

Contradiction Alert: You just said fights are challenge, but said none of the fights in CoP, RoZ and ToA were hard. Confronation alone does not equal challenge nor does confrontation frequency equal challenge. Challenge only exists in fomidable enemies. Are you saying the BCNMs in these fights do not contain formidable enemies?

I said these fights where challenging? Where? I said capping these fights wouldn't have helped simply because there's so little actually fighting involved. The only hard part of ACP is climbing Delkfutt's solo and possibly the last fight...mainly cause if you screw up you have to climb Delk's again. No, the Beastmen BC was not challenging.

This rationale never ceases to be amusing because its sooooooo subjective.

Did you go see X-Men Origins: Wolverine? Was that worth $10?

Star Trek?

Terminator: Salvation?

Of the three, I'd only say Star Trek was worth the $10 I spent, but people who don't give a damn about the integrity of a character like Wolverine might have thought thier $10 on his movie was well spent.

I've made much worse purchases with $10 than ACP, so I'm not really seeing a reason to complain about it.

No, no and no. I don't go to the movies often mainly because I don't enjoy wasting 10 bucks on something mediocre. Wolvie I can wait to see, Star Trek and Terminator were maybes but nothing too pressing for me. In fact the only movie I'm really looking forward too this summer is Transformers 2...mainly because I'm a massive Transformers geek and I feel spending 10 bucks to watch one of my favorite franchises on a massive screen with booming surround sound is worth it. While you may have spent 10 bucks on worse things, I've spent 10 bucks on MUCH better things. And especially now I would prefer to save as much money as possible. For the content that came with ACP, for me specifically, I don't think it was worth 10 bucks.

[Neverslip]

Will I buy future additions....? Yes.

Have I even started aCP...? No I haven't.

I will do it eventually but I'm in no big hurry. Besides my CoP static, I am working thru missions pretty leisurely atm. FFxi has a re-freakin'-donkulous amount of content as it is. If I was in a rush, it would only add stress to something I'd rather enjoy. I don't need (more) stress in a game. But I do like when I have something that enables me to help others out. I may not be interested in doing the aCP missions right away but one of my buddies might want me to help them out and if I don't have the content, then I cannot. I enjoy having full access and am a completionist by nature any way.

The pricing of $10 is inconsequencial to me. Most of these monetary arguments against most DLC have absolutely no bearing on my decisions to buy it. I have a decent job and have no kids or girlfriend sucking my wallet dry atm. $10 is not much money to me. I buy Rock Band songs all the time and it's definitely worth it having a psuedo-Karaoke library for gatherings of buddies every weekend. Yes, I bought "horse armor" (Oblivion). Should it have been in the original game? ... yes. Was I a little put out spending $2... I honestly don't remember. It was only $2. But the amount of crying on interwebs about $2"horse armor" was more annoying than the actual situation. I was way more put out in-game when my horses w/o armor died all the time.

So, yes... I will be buying the next additions. Would I rather they complete WotG....? F' YES !!!! ... but that fantasy seems along the same lines as getting the full story of the LotR in the cartoon format they attempted so long ago with The Hobbit and the Return of the King.

(Wow... how's that for round-about referencing lol...)