[Grizzlebeard]

Originally Posted by Armando

the more of a given item are introduced, the less its value is, thus its price goes down and the need for RMT decreases.

Right now go back and read my suggestion for massively increasing the crafting item drop rate again.

Originally Posted by Armando

And getting gil is not tedious. Players are lazy. As long as currency is the primary means of obtaining goods, there will be RMT, regardless of how easy or tedious it is to obtain currency.

Maybe you haven't played many other MMOs but, yes, making money is FFXI is tedious as Hell. The ratio for levelling/partying/questing/raiding vs farming/crafting/gardening/HELM'ing to make gil to be able to fund your ability to enjoy the game should be greater than 1:1. Truth be told, in FFXI, it's nearer 1:3.

[Takelli]

Originally Posted by Armando

And getting gil is not tedious. Players are lazy. As long as currency is the primary means of obtaining goods, there will be RMT, regardless of how easy or tedious it is to obtain currency.

And as long as there are lazy players, there will always be RMT. Get rid of the lazy players, and most of the RMTs are gone.

<edit>

I started farming as Rdm/Thf (60), and I made about 14k in about 45 minutes. Thats not that bad compared to what most people do. Take an hour out of a week, and farm, and you wouldn't have much of an issue with money.

[Vadrace]

Originally Posted by Takelli

And as long as there are lazy players, there will always be RMT. Get rid of the lazy players, and most of the RMTs are gone.

Or you can make it so that getting money in the game isn't a second job.

[Takelli]

Originally Posted by Vadrace

Or you can make it so that getting money in the game isn't a second job.

Then it would be like WoW. I played WoW, and I made about... 300k in about a day of leveling...

But they should make getting money easier, but then prices of stuff witll rise, and then RMTs will have an easier time obtaining money, which will interm raise the prices of stuff even more.

[Armando]

Right now go back and read my suggestion for massively increasing the crafting item drop rate again.

Ok. Now go back and read all the problems I pointed out with that. Crafting materials != ancient currency.

And no, getting money in this game is easy. Leveling lowbie jobs leaves you wealthy - and you kinda have to because the game demands so many subs. From then on out, not only should you have a reasonable amount of gil, you should also have acquired quite a few seals. BCNM40 Royal Jelly is so easy you'd have to be practically incompetent to fail it. Spam it with two friends and you'll get 300k+ drops eventually. I should know. I've been living off of BCNM40 money for the past 2 years, yet I have a Haub, Dusk hands/feet/legs, a Brutal Earring (roughly 700k in Ancient Beastcoins), a Woodsman Ring, Koenig AND Ice Shield (they're both fairly costly).

You only have to struggle in this game if you want e-peen in your equipment screen. Nobody needs Leaping Boots. They're mediocre as is, and downright abysmal for their price. You don't need Kampf armor on your Lv.29 PLD. Anyone with even a basic understanding of how VIT and Def works would know there's barely any difference between the NQ and the HQ. Nobody needs an Amemet Mantle +1. 5 Attack is definitely not worth 200k. Anyone who can tell the substantial performance boosting pieces from the ones that are pure e-peenery will not have to struggle with gil.

The EP/DC changes and FoV have only made lowbie soloing all the more lucrative with the introduction of a cheap and constant source of 1 MP/tick Refresh and by making it plausible to solo to higher levels with ease. In addition to this, the basic DD pieces like Haub and Woodsman Rings are relatively cheap these days in relation to BCNM40 money drops like Archer's Rings and Utsusemi: Ni which have more or less retained their value; and there are plenty of Sniper/Woodsman substitutes to go around as well.

[Grizzlebeard]

Originally Posted by Takelli

Then it would be like WoW. I played WoW, and I made about... 300k in about a day of leveling...

There's no need to lie to try and make your point. I played WoW for almost three years and never topped 15k gold. At its height of gold-earning, namely Sunwell dailies, you could make a maximum of 100g or so a day. Bearing in mind a repair cost for a plate-wearer with zero durability on their gear could approach the 80-100g mark. So, try and remember some of us have played more than FFXI before you make up nonsense like 300k/day.

[Vadrace]

Originally Posted by Takelli

Then it would be like WoW. I played WoW, and I made about... 300k in about a day of leveling...

But they should make getting money easier, but then prices of stuff witll rise, and then RMTs will have an easier time obtaining money, which will interm raise the prices of stuff even more.

300k in a day of leveling? Really? The cap for money in the game is 127/128k I believe.

No, it wouldn't. You look at it one dimensionally like that, and I suppose thats the conclusion you'd come up with, but you have to realize that RMT thrives on people valuing their time more than the 20 some odd bucks they're spending. If you make is so people dont have to spend so much time making money, they wont really feel the need to go to RMT. The price of stuff rises because there aren't enough money sinks in the game.

[Takelli]

Ok, I exagorated some. But I did make a good amount every day when I played teh game. Each day, I would have a lot more than when I started, even afte rI did a full repair about 3 times each day, and the quests money that I got, and teh drops of items that I sold on the AH.

As for what yous aid the cap was. Some one gave me 1 mil in the game randomly as I was leveling. So, the cap is way above 128k.

[Vadrace]

Originally Posted by Armando

Ok. Now go back and read all the problems I pointed out with that. Crafting materials != currency.

And no, getting money in this game is easy. Leveling lowbie jobs leaves you wealthy - and you kinda have to because the game demands so many subs. From then on out, not only should you have a reasonable amount of gil, you should also have acquired quite a few seals. BCNM40 Royal Jelly is so easy you'd have to be practically incompetent to fail it. Spam it with two friends and you'll get 300k+ drops eventually. I should know. I've been living off of BCNM40 money for the past 2 years, yet I have a Haub, Dusk hands/feet/legs, a Brutal Earring (roughly 700k in Ancient Beastcoins), a Woodsman Ring, Koenig AND Ice Shield (they're both fairly costly).

You only have to struggle in this game if you want e-peen in your equipment screen. Nobody needs Leaping Boots. They're mediocre as is, and downright abysmal for their price. You don't need Kampf armor on your Lv.29 PLD. Anyone with even a basic understanding of how VIT and Def works would know there's barely any difference between the NQ and the HQ. Nobody needs an Amemet Mantle +1. 5 Attack is definitely not worth 200k. Anyone who can tell the substantial performance boosting pieces from the ones that are pure e-peenery will not have to struggle with gil.

The EP/DC changes and FoV have only made lowbie soloing all the more lucrative with the introduction of a cheap and constant source of 1 MP/tick Refresh and by making it plausible to solo to higher levels with ease. In addition to this, the basic DD pieces like Haub and Woodsman Rings are relatively cheap these days in relation to BCNM40 money drops like Archer's Rings and Utsusemi: Ni which have more or less retained their value; and there are plenty of Sniper/Woodsman substitutes to go around as well.

I still feel like the money I make is trivial, and most of what I've been doing lately is leveling subs when my friends aren't on to play my main. Mostly because of all of the shuffling around between mules. I think if they changed the way mail, inboxes, and maybe even the AH worked, it would probably be a tad easier than it is. But as it is I can spend a good 30+ minutes to just get items to their proper place to sell and what not.

---------- Post added at 12:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Takelli

Ok, I exagorated some. But I did make a good amount every day when I played teh game. Each day, I would have a lot more than when I started, even afte rI did a full repair about 3 times each day, and the quests money that I got, and teh drops of items that I sold on the AH.

As for what yous aid the cap was. Some one gave me 1 mil in the game randomly as I was leveling. So, the cap is way above 128k.

You were not playing WoW then, friend.

Edit, oops, you're right, its 214k, my bad, I thought it had something to do with 128, but its actually based off the highest number a 32bit integer can be. WoW gold cap.

[Neverslip]

I miss farming Leach and Bat blood... That's all.

[Takelli]

Originally Posted by Vadrace

You were not playing WoW then, friend.

Edit, oops, you're right, its 216k, my bad, I thought it had something to do with 128, but its actually based off the highest number a 32bit integer can be. WoW gold cap.

I have all my account information, and game codes, saved on my pc. You want to see them? I can post it, as I wont be playing the game ever again lol. Hated it.

[Vadrace]

Originally Posted by Takelli

I have all my account information, and game codes, saved on my pc. You want to see them? I can post it, as I wont be playing the game ever again lol. Hated it.

I have no desire to see anything about your account, just that completely incorrect and off base information slinging stops. You didn't like WoW, bummer. Plenty of people do, and there's no need to bash it, let alone bald face lie about it.

---------- Post added at 12:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Armando

BCNM40 Royal Jelly is so easy you'd have to be practically incompetent to fail it. Spam it with two friends and you'll get 300k+ drops eventually. I should know. I've been living off of BCNM40 money for the past 2 years, yet I have a Haub, Dusk hands/feet/legs, a Brutal Earring (roughly 700k in Ancient Beastcoins), a Woodsman Ring, Koenig AND Ice Shield (they're both fairly costly).

What do you do for it? I've always felt that I had to go in with the "primo" setup to do any, mostly because anytime I asked to do it, people always asked if I had such and such to do it before they would commit to coming. So, I've done few BCNMs because I dont have the jobs that the primo groups want.

[Durahansolo]

*Adds Assault to the how to make gil list.* I was so pissed when I saw assault earring was like 500k the other day. I had one when my account was stolen that I paid 200k for. I bet you 500k that unless I do assaults for one I won't be buying it at that price.

[Armando]

What do you do for it? I've always felt that I had to go in with the "primo" setup to do any, mostly because anytime I asked to do it, people always asked if I had such and such to do it before they would commit to coming. So, I've done few BCNMs because I dont have the jobs that the primo groups want.

I just take two melees and a mage. The melees start killing the slimes in one direction, mage keeps the melees alive and bind/gravity the slimes that the melees will reach last. It's pretty straightforward and there's plenty of room for error. The two melees can be practically anything - I've done this on PLD and WAR, joined by another WAR or a DRK, but it really doesn't matter all that much what they are. I've used WHM and RDM for mages, but a BLM should be able to take care of all the healing/binding too. In fact, I've come as RDM and actually meleed the slimes along with the other two DDs. We split any big drops we get, otherwise each person keeps whatever junk he got.

With the advent of /DNC you might even be able to do this simply with 3 DD/DNCs, though I wouldn't know from experience.

And yeah, like Dura said, I forgot about Assault and ISNMs and all that for those that are 75.

[Aksannyi]

I'll say that it's a hell of a lot easier to make gold in WoW than it is to make gil in FFXI. In WoW I am never, ever hurting for money. This is partially because gear you get in WoW is mostly dropped, not crafted and bought from the AH. The player makes the economy in FFXI, and that's what makes it suck. There is no fix. Beastmen will still drop only 20~ gil on average which won't even buy a fucking arrow to kill it with, but consumables (oils, food, shiehei) will still start at the very lowest possible cost of about 2k/stack, and can not be purchased from NPCs.

This makes it difficult to maintain. There is indeed farming. In both games. In WoW it's more about doing your dailies and raising your rep, where you will make gold in the process of finishing the dailies and just regular mob drops. In FFXI, you farm once a week for several hours in the hopes that you get a good "harvest" or that people who are selling what you're farming don't decide to lower the price and devalue your hard work. In WoW, the AH isn't used nearly as much. Mostly craft materials are found there, and that's about the extent of it. Everything else fetches a better price from the NPC, and consumables are cheaper if you get them from the NPC. So the gold I get from doing 10 daily quests is about 130, and that easily pays for my reagents, repairs, and travel costs. You need to save up for things like epic flying and some exotic mounts, maybe some things like greatness card, but really, after you've got all that stuff, you just make gold for the sake of maintaining yourself, and trust me, it comes in MUCH faster than it goes out.

In FFXI, it goes out much faster than it comes in. I used to not make 6k/day on average, but I'd go through that a day in oils, traveling to WG via the teleport guy in Sandy, outpost warps, etc. It often goes out faster than it can come in, and part of the problem is the player-based economy.

It's hard to deal with, and that's why there's a lot of RMT. I get RMT gold spam tells all the time in WoW but I don't need to listen to them because I've never had trouble paying for what I needed, where as in FFXI, I've seriously considered it at times because sometimes you go through dry spells so fierce that you can't keep up with it, and sometimes all of the markets you typically make gil off of are dried up. I realize that the player-based economy makes it hard to regulate that in some way, and I have no solution. But to say that it's fairly easy to make gil in FFXI is not necessarily false, but to keep gil flowing can be fairly difficult in certain circumstances. In a typical week of being in my linkshell, I'd get very little farming time, if any. I can farm once every three weeks and hope that it holds me till next time I get a chance. That's the lifestyle I chose, and I don't really have problems with gil due to other methods of getting it (that aren't Visa), but I can see where it's tough for a lot of people to maintain gil when so many consumables are sold player-side only, and rather expensive compared to what you can make simply farming and NPCing things now, which is/was the gil-making staple of this game for many years.

I don't have a solution, or even a fair conclusion to this post, but I just wanted to ramble a bit I suppose and hopefully make some points along the way. XD