[Evion]

Well, its been a long time but I really wanted to get something off my chest for those who may not know. Just to be up-front, I've only done a few Dynamis Runs in total but I learned a lot in a short time. Each Dynamis Run is usually sponsered by one or a couple people. You can sponser everyone into a dynamis run with a single NPC purchase of , for 500K, a timeless hourglass. Here's where it gets sticky. During the entire Dynamis run a lot of "currency", Synth mats, and AF2 drop. AF2 and Synth mats are usually up for lotting rules or freelot. However, the sponser usually gets ALL the currency drops. These currency drops can easily go from 1-4 MILLION in value! Pure profit for the "sponser". Yes, this is not the ONLY way to do this....

If you have joined a Dynamis LS where the leader and/or the leader's few "officers" are the only ones that ever get to sponser, you may be getting screwed. If this particular LS is large and LEET, many AF2 will drop and people don't seem to question it for all the chances to lot. These leaders are taking advantage of people's want for AF2 and gaining huge coin. However, many Dynamis LS will list members to give each a chance to sponser and get the bank based on time/attendance/etc. Moral of the story is check out the Sponsership Rules of a Dynamis LS before you join. GL

Hope someone reads this and saves themselves a few wasted runs like I did...

Evion

[Murphie]

Currency and/or gil isn't the only reason to do Dynamis, though. You aren't guaranteed to get something every run.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

There are LSes that use the general member for the personal gains of the leadership?

Color me shocked

Hate to say it, but so long as people choose to be followers and allow leaders to have such unquestioned positions, this sort of thing can and will continue to happen.

But you do have to keep in mind that in order to keep doing Dynamis, there has to be funding and it doesn't always mean collecting currency, but gaining drops from certain NMs elsewhere outside of Dynamis that remain rather profitable. There is a reason for sponsors to collect currency so you can keep doing Dynamis runs - I find such people do let it get to thier heads, though.

[Aksannyi]

Fuck it, I'm happy someone else is sponsoring Dynamis. (Or was, in my old LS. In this LS it's done by the bank.) It meant I could get new shinies and someone else would pay for it.

I don't know why this is a huge issue, unless you want to upgrade a relic. A lot of people in their first (or even second or third) Dynamis LS can't afford to sponsor an hourglass and are grateful to be a part of something they can get relic armor from. If you asked your leader to sponsor and they said no, find out why. I was in an LS where only the leader - and no one else - sponsored Dynamis. No one questioned it, and he chose to make it that way so that no confusion would erupt from random people sponsoring runs. Which trust me, it would.

Guarantee some of that currency being sold is funding your next Dynamis run, and let me tell you that on CoP and Icelands, no one is making back what they spent unless you get lucky. If you're like us, and don't do cities anymore, you would consider yourself lucky to break even on Dynamis currency. I wouldn't stand there and say that all of your currency is being sold for big bucks and lining your leader's pockets. He might make a small profit, but trust me it really isn't that much, and with all the hassle and bullshit leadership goes through in a typical Dynamis linkshell, you'd almost be able to make the argument that he deserves the extra change, lol.

I don't think there's anything wrong with sponsorship, that's just how some linkshells are funded. You wouldn't have a linkshell at all if no one funded it, and I guarantee you if only a few people are sponsoring, those are the few people that can actually afford it.

I guess I'm not seeing the issue. Would you rather pay a percentage of the cost based on how many people show up, and split at the end of the run? Not taking into account who shows up late and who leaves early, that sounds like a huge pain in the ass. I don't know, I guess I'm getting that you feel screwed, but I'm reasonably sure no one is making a huge profit off Dynamis these days.

[Mhurron]

Let me get this straight, you're bitching because a sponsor might get something in return because they paid for the whole damn run? Do I have that right?

You do know that it pretty much the whole point of sponsoring a run right?

[Evion]

Originally Posted by Aksannyi

Guarantee some of that currency being sold is funding your next Dynamis run, and let me tell you that on CoP and Icelands, no one is making back what they spent unless you get lucky. If you're like us, and don't do cities anymore, you would consider yourself lucky to break even on Dynamis currency. I wouldn't stand there and say that all of your currency is being sold for big bucks and lining your leader's pockets. He might make a small profit, but trust me it really isn't that much, and with all the hassle and bullshit leadership goes through in a typical Dynamis linkshell, you'd almost be able to make the argument that he deserves the extra change, lol.

I do agree with most of this. The leadership does need repayment for their time/effort setting it all up and getting members, fronting the money etc. Although, for anyone playing this game long enough 500K is no big deal especially for the possible rewards.

And no Mhurron, I'm just trying to let people know that if they want the chance to sponser, they should know whether or not their Dynamis LS will give them the chance.

[Murphie]

Most Dyna shells make that pretty obvious.

[Mog]

You want a relic? Make your own linkshell. Otherwise, just ask the leaders of other linkshells if they sponsor runs.

I don't see the issue. >_>;

[Mhurron]

Originally Posted by Evion

And no Mhurron, I'm just trying to let people know that if they want the chance to sponser, they should know whether or not their Dynamis LS will give them the chance.

Oh well then, in that case I'm sure people are happy that you let them know the sky is blue.

End game LS's have rules. You may actually be required to follow them.

[Vyuru]

Know the rules of whatever LS you want to join BEFORE you join. Basic common sense.

If you don't know what the rules are, how'd you even know if you wanted to join? Heck, as an extreme example, the rule could have been that members paid the fee and the LS leader got everything for all you know.

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Originally Posted by Mhurron

Let me get this straight, you're bitching because a sponsor might get something in return because they paid for the whole damn run? Do I have that right?

You do know that it pretty much the whole point of sponsoring a run right?

I think he's trying to say that some people are very unscrupulous and try to pull the wool over people's eyes (usually the newbies) and use people to run dynamis runs where only the elite few of the ls hierarchy ever sponsor the runs. (I was briefly in one like that once.)

Which, in a sense isn't really, technically a bad thing, because it's done all the time and everyone can benefit. Usually, the people shouting in WG that "Dynamis-Such&Such needs ppl today Free lot AF blahblah" are the ones who are trying to build coin for relics and invite ppl along for a dynamis run. The people who aren't doing any of the work of organizing get to enjoy the benfits of freelotting af or whatever while the coordinator cashes in on the coin. It's kind of a symbitotic and unspoken relationship between people, e.g. I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine.

It's the shells that don't tell you what they're doing up front and organize and appear well mannered and legitimate that should be chastized! (By what manner or method I don't know; I say being subjected to bouts of Connection Lost when the 100 pieces drop on a run :D) Of course, you figure this out and eventually no longer become a newb and realize "either I find a LS that lets anyone from the ls sponsor a run" or "I get free af out of a bad situation."

And you have your people that are money makers and sponor dyna runs, which, I can't fault for, unless they lie and set up a ls that lies about it all and leads you on thinking you can sponsor but really never can. Word of mouth does get around and suddenly these so called highway men lose lsmates and they have to start all over again recruiting.

Seen it all before. lol But if you're new to Dynamis, make sure that if your intention is to work on a relic and you need coins, that your ls will allow all ls mates to sponsor the run. If they don't, then get out and find a new one, no harm no foul.

[Aksannyi]

Okay, the way your OP read, it seemed like you were complaining about sponsorship as a valid means to funding Dynamis linkshells. If this is just meant to inform then, cool. Decent discussion though I guess. If I had ever had to pay for Dynamis I would have been screwed. Funding Limbus is hard enough sometimes when I'm really busy and can't find the time to farm. (This is now alleviated by the price drop, but there was a time when 60k/week was a struggle.)

[Evion]

LSes have rules and you can follow them if you join, sure. People new to Dynamis, such as myself, may not know what these rules really mean or that other LSes have different rules more in their favor. Now they know and knowing is half the battle.

[Ziero]

A while back I started attempting City Dynamis runs with my social LS, at that point very few of us have ever done Dynamis and the initial costs for the first few runs came out of pocket. We never really had more then 18-19 people, but even with just that, we were able to make enough money from a single city run to pay for the next two runs. There was only one run where we had less then 12 people show where we only broke even on costs, otherwise even the massive failures we had saw enough cash to pay for a full Dynamis and then some. City Dynamis can fund themselves, and after a few runs, a lot of people won't need their relics from that zone anymore, assuming they even get any to begin with.

Wins and relics are only reasons to do Dynamis for so long.

[Sabaron]

I don't see anything odd here. If everyone got a share of the currency drops then no one would be able to make a relic. You can't just let everyone sponsor runs or you'll never get what you want done. I'm sure that you'd love to sponsor a nice San d'Oria run, but when it comes time to pay for that Valkurm run, is that gonna be on you as well?

If you want to be a sponsor, you have to either start your own shell or convince the existing sponsors to let you share the currency drops. Don't complain just because a linkshell won't let you join up all noob-like and then expect to be entitled to sponsorship and currency...

Many shells run Ice/Dreamland quite heavily. These runs produce fewer and more varied currency drops (especially Dreamland) and the sponsors take the hit on those runs when they don't produce.

The sponsors do more than just sit back and soak up currency, too. What activities are the sponsors undertaking in that shell? Do they pull? Tell you where to stand? Act as primary assist? Perform sac pulls? Ensure that you have enough people to handle each run well? Handle disputes between members? The shell leadership does a lot more work than just sitting around soaking up currency--there's a significant time investment involved.

It is true that the cost of sponsoring Dynamis has decreased and the currency value has remained approximately the same. I don't think that this means that we should spread the currency around more, I think it facilitates the faster formation of a relic. Perhaps when the current sponsor finishes a relic, then you can come in and sponsor some runs. When you sponsor runs, remember you have to pay for the runs the AF2 people want to do which usually means lots of Ice which has lower profitability than cities. You have to take the good and the bad together and you have to wait until there's room for you to sponsor a relic or are you just in it for the cash?

I don't really feel that you understand Dynamis well yet. Perhaps you should stick with it a little longer.