[Aksannyi]

Meh, Fan Fest has me underwhelmed, mostly because they told us what we already learned from VanaFest. RDM and WHM melee updates? I really don't care. What little meleeing I do on either jobs have no place in parties outside skillup or farming.

I'm excited to see if any of the new content is any good, but really, I'm not too excited about this update, it's just kinda "meh" to me. We'll see, though, SE might just wow me. I'll play around with the new stuff before I write it off completely though.

[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by Firewind

How many parties actually allow a WHM to melee? 99.9% of parties act like WHMs don't even exist until they need a 2HP/Tick poison cured.

Oh god, did a Dynamis recently where they had 1hp/tick poison and I had 28 friggin mp but they still kept saying {Poison} over and over. ITS THE END OF THE WORLD! I have 1000+ hp and I'm going to die!!! Idiots.

[Raydeus]

No, no, you are missunderstanding it.

See, it's not that they would die but that they are traumatized from their newbie days when they died repatedly due to Lizard poison. So, now, 70 levels later the trauma kicks in every time they see the poison icon on their screen.

I wouldn't even doubt some of them are actually screaming in fear while typing "(Poisoned)!!! " repeatedly.





...what? <_<;

[Darkhound]

I Cant wait for tomorrows update

[Gobo]

So I heard that Mythic's Aftermath lasts longer (possibly a lot?) than Relic's and you are able to scale up the levels like Dancer's Finishing moves up to level 3. Any one who went able to confirm that? Make mage weapons a little more appealing.

[Hyrist]

Rest assured.

If there is any means of enforcing the acceptance of WHM and RDM front line in merit parties, the RDMs and WHMs will go through great lenghts to shove it down the other job's throats, even if it means a fall in invite rate for RDMs.

Majority of RDM populace is tired of having to heal all the time, and WHM is envious of RDM's invite rate.

I perdict that the melee enthusisits among these two job classes will be pairing together to enforce their roles in merit parties, I.E. You get them as a package or not at all.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I have a feeling said RDMs and WHMs are far more willing to take the path of least resistance than you think. Its been going strong for over five years now and its not like we can't replace RDMs and WHMs with other jobs.

See, meritpo isn't about fun. Meritpo is about getting shit done for the majority of people that do it. If you want to get merits and have fun doing it, then you're probably getting them more slowly than other people.

Its your perogative and that's fine, it only really affects you. But don't expect the change the world by forcing something on a situation that isn't appropriate.

I could gear up my BRD and get merits like a fiend, but I simply don't care to. I like to merit for fun most of the time, so that means going without meritpo often. But there are tons of ways to gain merits sans "meritpo" and we're even getting another one tomorrow. Custom dungeons made by moblins. I can level sync and hunt treasure in Fields of Valor and get limit points.

SE made these additions and made soloing easier for such reasons. People can get more of what they want out of the game, so its pretty pointless to force what you want on something where it will likely never be accepted.

[Malacite]

If I ever get that Kraken Club you can bet your ass I will merit on WHM as WHM/DNC.

Kraken Club + Mystic Boon + Aspir Samba = win

[BurningPanther]

I don't think anything needs to be forced on the playerbase, nor even the threat thereof.

So long as the frontline update makes a difference--not even significant--so long as the change is noticeable, then it won't matter if the players welcome frontline RDM and WHM with open arms. Any backline-weary RDM can take five other like-minded RDM or WHM and go on to form an exp/merit/whatever party for decent numbers.

Meanwhile, everyone else is asking "where'd all the healers go?"

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Part of the reason RDM melee is discouraged is because RDMs think all they have to do is equip a sword and slap on a Scorpion Harness and that's all that has to be done to qualify for melee status.

Far from it.

Try Wahlra Turban, Speed Belt, Sniper/Woodsman/Ecphoria rings, Dusk Gloves and ledelsians, Pahluwhan legs and Body are good too. Suppanomimi and lots of earring options. RDM already has plenty to carry, but to make a decent melee, there's a lot more work to be done. That's just a build ripped right off my COR, too, there's other options.

Most RDMs won't bother.

I see some melee in Morrigan's body, for Christ's sake. Its a WS/nuking/enfeebling piece, not TP build piece. Its just laughable to watch how even some of the "best" RDMs on my server don't cover the basics of a melee build.

I mean, don't let the Campaign mobs pull the wool over your eyes. They're rigged for low evasion. Same thing with Colibri, of course it easy to hit VT and T, they're not IT++ mobs. Go swing at a Mamool THF and tell me how that goes.

RDMs gotta start gearing like the part if they're going to be taken seriously as of this melee update. I'll be spending extra time in Assault for Paluwhan Body and legs again for my RDM. I know exactly what I need to make it work based off COR.

But I'll also know when to put the sword away.

[Firewind]

SE needs to give the other jobs more of an incentive to let WHM and RDM melee. Honestly I don't care if the RDM is meleeing in my exp parties, I'm a WHM so chances are I didn't invite the RDM to heal. i always go /SCH or craft drinks if the party is pre-70 so as long as they keep the tank refreshed I don't care what the RDM is up to. They can be leeching for all I care

I have a WHM friend and several RDM friends who all advocate WHM/RDM melee and we regularlly go to great lengths to prove people who laugh at us wrong. a lot of Sword and Club abilities also skillchain really well. it's very easy to make Fusion and Burst Fire III/Banish III for a LOT of damage. me and a RDM friend were out parsing a MNK in an farming party by doing this. Well until he started getting freakishly lucky with his crits. We counted 6 in a row

Heck I also advocate WHM and RDM tanks and I regularly enjoy tanking in skill ups parties and exp parties involving some form of NIN tank purely because out tanking a NIN on WHM is so damn funny. I can hold hate better than any NIN too

There is one thing I refuse to do on WHM and that is kite. Firstly WHM is a class dedicated to healing, not running around in circles. Secondly WHM depends way too heavily on subs (RDM, NIN and SMN are probably the most useful for it) to kite. I swear that nobody pays attention to a kiting WHM either. During a Carby Mitts run last week I had to kite an add because the melees were too busy hitting the NM, repose got resisted and the THF just got one shotted so hard by Searing Light he probably landed in Sandy. The only person who even acknowledged that I was kiting something was the other WHM and the SMN who thankfully managed to get silence to stick on the mob I was kiting around the room and the RDM was nice enough to put gravity on it before going back to bashing the NM so it stopped being painful after a couple of minutes.

I think the trauma of being forced to kite due to useless tanks in campaign has also added to my hatred of kiting in general . You have voke and were just bashing on the mob that is now chasing me, I'm being chased by a mob that can one shot me as soon as it catches me and brings down S.Skin. That should be a no brainer really. These people are also probably the same ones who complain about WHMs not healing/raising in campaign. We probably COULD do that if you tanks would do your damn jobs and kept hate once in a while. It's probably why I never do campaign anymore. It's even more annoying when you get caught out without RR up and end up dead yet the RDMs and PLDs that actually bother to raise people anymore raise the dead DD next to you instead of your or one of the other dead mages nearby even though the raised DD can't help raise the other dead DDs around you. I'm not accusing RDMs and PLDs of anything here since I know plenty or do raise people and actually raise people it makes sense to raise first but when the only people that bother to raise in campaign anymore are WHMs (that aren't too busy skilling up without tags), SMNs and the odd DRG, BLU or BRD that has WHM subbed it does get pretty annoying.

[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by Raydeus

No, no, you are missunderstanding it.

See, it's not that they would die but that they are traumatized from their newbie days when they died repatedly due to Lizard poison. So, now, 70 levels later the trauma kicks in every time they see the poison icon on their screen.

I wouldn't even doubt some of them are actually screaming in fear while typing "(Poisoned)!!! " repeatedly.





...what? <_<;

Ah PTSD! Prozac it is!

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Firewind

so as long as they keep the tank refreshed I don't care what the RDM is up to

Every time someone says that, Altana kills a kitten.

And she should, because its an evil thing to say, worthy of commiting kitty genocide to make you stop saying it

I kinda care when the SCH is overwriting the DNC's Aspir Samba with Enspells. I kinda care when people aren't voking off or flashing the mob for when the NIN's shadows are down. I kinda care when the BRD is Ballading the DRG/WHM and not the main healer for 20 minutes.

Why do we not care what RDM, BRD or COR does so long as people are getting MP back? That's a pretty low bar to set for those guys. You should care about them not dispelling the mob, not giving members appropriate buffs.

Refresh - whomever its for - is not the only criteria to fufill.

[Firewind]

You forgot RDMs healing over Regen III's and BRDs who are dumb enough to cast enfeeb songs and lullabies (especially HOARDE lullaby) on Collibris. I don't care if they do stick, stop pissing off the party by having your sleeps and enfeebs getting reflected at the front line. It's gotten to the point where I refuse to wake any BRD that was dumb enough to get their own lullaby reflected back at them.

You took that comment out of context anyway. it's hard to convey sarcasm on a message board so sorry if you didn't get that. I obviously won't care if the RDM wants to nuke or melee because I will be doing the healing. As long as they aren't dumb enough to cast on a Collibri or convert within AoE range of a Puk with TP (seen that one so many times it's stopped being funny) I'm okay with them nuking or meleeing. I seriously doubt that most RDMs will mind the break from healing either. I obviously WILL care if anyone stands there doing nothing.

Besides I always bring either stuff to craft drinks or sublimation to an exp party so I rarely have the incentive to invite someone purely for the purposes of refreshing.

[BurningPanther]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

Part of the reason RDM melee is discouraged is because RDMs think all they have to do is equip a sword and slap on a Scorpion Harness and that's all that has to be done to qualify for melee status.

Far from it.

Try Wahlra Turban, Speed Belt, Sniper/Woodsman/Ecphoria rings, Dusk Gloves and ledelsians, Pahluwhan legs and Body are good too. Suppanomimi and lots of earring options. RDM already has plenty to carry, but to make a decent melee, there's a lot more work to be done. That's just a build ripped right off my COR, too, there's other options.

Most RDMs won't bother.

I see some melee in Morrigan's body, for Christ's sake. Its a WS/nuking/enfeebling piece, not TP build piece. Its just laughable to watch how even some of the "best" RDMs on my server don't cover the basics of a melee build.

I mean, don't let the Campaign mobs pull the wool over your eyes. They're rigged for low evasion. Same thing with Colibri, of course it easy to hit VT and T, they're not IT++ mobs. Go swing at a Mamool THF and tell me how that goes.

RDMs gotta start gearing like the part if they're going to be taken seriously as of this melee update. I'll be spending extra time in Assault for Paluwhan Body and legs again for my RDM. I know exactly what I need to make it work based off COR.

But I'll also know when to put the sword away.

I'm inclined to agree. the number or RDM I see in Campaign meleeing in Jet seraweels makes me cringe. My gear isn't top, but I like to think it's a step in the right direction, and will only get better as I gain the opportunity(and gil), to improve.


However, that's not the primary factor in the RDM melee's current unpopularity. It's the problem everyone likes to fall back on, but it's a problem that came as a result of deeper issues. Any RDM poorly gear does so often out of ignorance, and who can blame him when the subject is so taboo that people would sooner dismiss that RDM meleeing than discuss how he can make it viable? He'll never gear properly if he's never given the opportunity to try, and to given open discourse on the proper methods.

Hopefully, the Spring update will will lay the foundation for an environment that allows such discourse and experimentation. After that, the divide between a good frontline RDM and a BAD frontline RDM will be comparable to a good SAM and a bad SAM; on a case-by-case basis rather than blackballing the entire class.