[Kitalrez]

Remember to make your "late comer" policy complicated enough that you don't shaft people you actually need. For instance, there's a big difference between someone dragging their feet to come to something, and someone who logged on right after work to help out.

Last night, for instance, I logged 3 hrs into the Hakutaku run for my LS. Obviously, I'm some kind of horrible person here deserving of a kick from the ls. I've just spent 5 hrs in the sun dismantling stages/rigging downtown, then picked my 'rents up at the airport, spent 1/2 hr waiting on AAA to come help unlock my car door so I can drive them home, showered, and logged on. There were 3 runs left after I finally got there, and we were down to about 10-12 people at the time. However late I was, I was still needed and useful to the ls at this point. Did I ask first? You bet, I made sure they were doing more than one run and that they actually needed me there because it's about a 20 minute walk in, either way.

Never make your policies so simplistic that you shaft the people who come in late, because the way EGLS members like to leave early for the most BS of excuses, you need the late guys almost as much as you need the people you start with. Pro-rate points based on the time you were present, maybe give a bonus to people who can stay the entire run, whatever. But make sure that you don't try those "if you're more than 5 mins late you don't get anything" policies. These are the things that cause your longer farming events to be cut short due to lack of people. If you know you're going to be late, and all you get is a penalty or the shaft, most of us won't even bother to log on period.

My LS doesn't do points, and on SMN and WHM mains I need an Ohat like a lobotomy, the ability to join in and help/make fun of people was enough incentive to come. For others it might not be. Be careful that you don't set the standards for the LS too unreasonable.

[Callisto]

We try to, but Ramuh endgame is incredibly diluted.

There's basically 3 main massive monster shells(one of them being Olorin's, lol), one of those is a group that came over from Kujata, absorbed half of Ramuh's endgame population, then brought over 30 more server transfers, the other is our resident "Yeah we bot, so what" 3PP/MPK/IGE/general douchebag shell.

There's a few mediums shells and a relatively large EU shell, and then there's 50 fucking million dinky little Sky/minor HNM shells. Recruiting here is incredibly hard, the open pool is basically people who are brand new to endgame(which we aren't against fully, as long as they've put some work into CoP) or people who are known bad apples that have been through an infinite number of failure shells.

Aside from that we're trying to make a concerted effort at getting out and meeting strangers more often, especially in terms of meritting. Our 3 officers are extremely tight and pretty do everything together, but we've been trying to invite strangers to fill in spots for other things so that we can meet new people and potentially recruit them.

And all of the friends I have on the server that I'd love to bring over are in point system shells and don't want to leave their current shells and give up the points they've accumulated.

For the people we do actually get that apply, 3 out of 10 get a pearl but never make a single event, then are in a different LS 2 months later, 2 don't pass trial, 2 are rejected, 2 end up being flakey douchebags that we eventually kick months down the road, and 1 of every 10 ends up being a good member.
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Originally Posted by Kitalrez

Remember to make your "late comer" policy complicated enough that you don't shaft people you actually need. For instance, there's a big difference between someone dragging their feet to come to something, and someone who logged on right after work to help out.

We try not to, especially with the massive time zone range we have, like the member who logged in late last night we know she works late and that she can never make Einherjar, which is fine...however she blatantly skipped Sea afterwards despite knowing that we were going to do that so that she could XP instead. She's a long-time member that we've already gotten a decent amount of shit for including a Kirin's Osode, and now she's in line for W.Legs. We know she'll somehow manage to make Kirin, yet she can't make other events scheduled at the same time.

This is our huge issue, people who have crazy RL schedules and can't make any events because the sky is falling and OMFG...yet they can make the one that drops what they want. This is why we quit announcing exactly what events we are doing when, just the nights that we have events.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Out of 25~ members I can think of maybe 8 at the moment who aren't on my shitlist.

If my statistics are correct, of those eight, I'd assume some were officers and members who've been around a while. I'll also wager they play tank, healer or support classes and not generally BLM or DD.

Am I close?

I remember this one time we had an officer out EXPing a lowbie job in Qufim a half hour before Dynamis-Windurst. Way to set an example.

Of course, this guy was the one who insisted we weren't doing enough Byakko and later tried to start a mutiny in the LS over it. He actually went around to other members and officers (except me and a couple other officers, because we'd just nain his ass to the wall).

He got around to one of our officers and probably my best friend in the game, he asked her what she wanted most in the game. She said Sha'ir Manteel and then promptly laughed her ass of as he promised to help take down Vrtra for her manteele. Yeah, with just the six members he had managed to pull from our LS.

[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by Kitalrez

Remember to make your "late comer" policy complicated enough that you don't shaft people you actually need. For instance, there's a big difference between someone dragging their feet to come to something, and someone who logged on right after work to help out.

Last night, for instance, I logged 3 hrs into the Hakutaku run for my LS. Obviously, I'm some kind of horrible person here deserving of a kick from the ls. I've just spent 5 hrs in the sun dismantling stages/rigging downtown, then picked my 'rents up at the airport, spent 1/2 hr waiting on AAA to come help unlock my car door so I can drive them home, showered, and logged on. There were 3 runs left after I finally got there, and we were down to about 10-12 people at the time. However late I was, I was still needed and useful to the ls at this point. Did I ask first? You bet, I made sure they were doing more than one run and that they actually needed me there because it's about a 20 minute walk in, either way.

Never make your policies so simplistic that you shaft the people who come in late, because the way EGLS members like to leave early for the most BS of excuses, you need the late guys almost as much as you need the people you start with. Pro-rate points based on the time you were present, maybe give a bonus to people who can stay the entire run, whatever. But make sure that you don't try those "if you're more than 5 mins late you don't get anything" policies. These are the things that cause your longer farming events to be cut short due to lack of people. If you know you're going to be late, and all you get is a penalty or the shaft, most of us won't even bother to log on period.

My LS doesn't do points, and on SMN and WHM mains I need an Ohat like a lobotomy, the ability to join in and help/make fun of people was enough incentive to come. For others it might not be. Be careful that you don't set the standards for the LS too unreasonable.

I think he's addressing the chronic abusers and not your average person. You get to know who is dedicated but has a limited schedule and who is just an asshat coming up with excuses pretty quick. My ls knows that my schedule is tighter than tight. I still tweak out 4-5 hours a day to help with stuff but if anything needs to be done out of the usual timeframe, I'm usually late. But if I'm on I help whether it be advice, changing and going to Mt. Z....the blm mountain...to raise some dead solo'er, helping with ZNM's, etc. The chronic abuser just talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk and you know who they are right quick.

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

Of course, this guy was the one who insisted we weren't doing enough Byakko and later tried to start a mutiny in the LS over it. He actually went around to other members and officers (except me and a couple other officers, because we'd just nain his ass to the wall).

He got around to one of our officers and probably my best friend in the game, he asked her what she wanted most in the game. She said Sha'ir Manteel and then promptly laughed her ass of as he promised to help take down Vrtra for her manteele. Yeah, with just the six members he had managed to pull from our LS.

Oh hey I got one for you! We had a guy that wanted to be a sac so badly but they wouldn't sac him. So he ran around trying to get people to make another ls with him, including me, my son, and my husband. Well he got his friend irl and another friend to leave so off they went. They had been in the ls for quite some time actually and were kind of close with the leadership. Right before they left and after they left, they bad mouthed the leadership and the ls like crazy and still tried pulling people from the ls. They were absolutely horrid. Guess where they are now? Back in our ls and the guy that wanted to be a sac and left cause they wouldn't let him be one.......he's now a sac. Guess how he treats the people that turned him down for not leaving the ls...

[WishMaster3K]

Aww, I don't have a best friend in the game.

I guess that's why I dont' feel bad about sabbaticals. My only job for the last 3 years was RDM, and there are an ARMY of RDMs in each shell. And now my other 75 is PLD. Yeah, I can take breaks and the only LS that would miss me would be my social LS where I kite/tank ALL the hard shit.

[Callisto]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

If my statistics are correct, of those eight, I'd assume some were officers and members who've been around a while. I'll also wager they play tank, healer or support classes and not generally BLM or DD.

Am I close?

Actually not even close, I didn't count the officers in that, and there's only 3 of us. One is a SCH/SMN that we got as a server transfer from Shiva, who has seriously impressed us with his play, on top of good attendance. One is a SAM who is also our backup PLD, his gear is hurting but he's trying very hard to improve in that area, and anything he doesn't know or understand he doesn't hesitate to ask questions about. 2 are old time members, though they follow the rules, show up, and execute when we need to. One is a BLM and WHM, who is a really good guy despite being almost completely functionally retarded and an awful BLM. The last few are DDs who aren't on my good side either, they just haven't fully pissed me off yet.
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Originally Posted by WishMaster3K

Aww, I don't have a best friend in the game.

I guess that's why I dont' feel bad about sabbaticals. My only job for the last 3 years was RDM, and there are an ARMY of RDMs in each shell. And now my other 75 is PLD. Yeah, I can take breaks and the only LS that would miss me would be my social LS where I kite/tank ALL the hard shit.

Most of my really tight friends in the game left, but I'm extremely tight with our other two officers. One I've been an LSmate with for nearly 4 years now, since I was about 4 months into the game.

The other is the actual shellholder, the fact that we're pretty much best buds now is pretty ironic. The first time we interacted was in a Sky/HNM shell led by one of my old friends(who ended up jumping servers w/ the bank, that part sucked). The friend had begged me for fucking ever to come help his LS with Sky and such, at the time I was part of a Dynamis LS that I really liked that ran on the same nights. Eventually I took a break from Dynamis to help them with Sky, but I really was just doing it to get my friend to stop bugging me.

Since it was just fun time for me I was a bit of a diva, playing melee RDM on Sky trigs and such(to be fair I went all out with like Sole+1 and good gear, lol), and the leader of my current shell couldn't stand me b/c of it. He thought I was a dick b/c I didn't really take things seriously. Eventually that shell broke, I went back to Dynamis, and like a year and a half later restarted an old social shell I had been in as the new shellholder. My shell annexed two other shells and grew like all hell, but after awhile several of my members stopped showing up and were in a new endgame LS instead. Eventually they coaxed me into joining, I did begrudgingly b/c I was pissed that this shell fucked up my social shell.

Relative to some of the members I had more endgame knowledge than most, and at that time was one of only 2 RDMs, plus I came in pretty much fully geared. I was made an officer within about 3 weeks, and now I've been 2nd in command for nearly 10 months, lol.

Edit: Sorry for wall o' text!

[Aksannyi]

Originally Posted by WishMaster3K

As for the "on trial" person, kick them. If they are on trial and they are already acting up, keeping them in the ls is just asking for trouble imo.

We had a new person, on his FIRST RUN in Dynamis-Bastok, go AFK without saying anything for a good hour. We went down to the bottom of the alley where all those pulls are (and he was up top, close to the bridge) and came back up to where you do all those pulls at the zone of Z Mines and Markets, and he was STILL afk. So we put a BLM in his party to D2 him and his pearl was broken. I do love that this ls doesn't fuck around. If you're fucking up, you're gone.

How the hell do you go AFK like that your FIRST RUN WITH AN LS?

I was almost hoping the leader would suddenly get on vent and tell us about a barrage of /tells from the guy, but sadly, that never took place.

[Callisto]

It's probably a good thing I'm not the actual shellholder, if I was we wouldn't even be able to do events because I'd have kicked 3/4 of the LS by now.

[Aksannyi]

Off topic but Callisto's new title is LOL.

[Callisto]

Actually I still can't get it to work properly, if I quote someone it's ok, but if I make a brand new post talking in all caps it only keeps the caps on the first letter of each word, been bugging me for like a week.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Callisto

One is a BLM and WHM, who is a really good guy despite being almost completely functionally retarded and an awful BLM.

Well, if he's a nice guy, I think the rest can just be fixed given time and calm instruction. I'd rather have a subpar player with a good attitude than a good player with a bad attitude.

[Callisto]

I keep hoping that's the case, but honestly he's an idiot. It's not so much about him being new or not understanding the game, he's just a moron. To an extent I'd agree that I'd rather have the nicer people, but at the same time it's kind of hard to keep that perspective when you lose fights because they're functionally retarded.

[Aksannyi]

Originally Posted by Callisto

Actually I still can't get it to work properly, if I quote someone it's ok, but if I make a brand new post talking in all caps it only keeps the caps on the first letter of each word, been bugging me for like a week.

You have to have at least one word that's not in caps. Even if you put it in white text so no one can see it (highlight lol) it's there and it counts.

[Callisto]

I guess this means no breakdancing battle with TM.

Add: Oh man I gotta find somewhere to fit a postcount+1 post in!

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Callisto

I keep hoping that's the case, but honestly he's an idiot. It's not so much about him being new or not understanding the game, he's just a moron. To an extent I'd agree that I'd rather have the nicer people, but at the same time it's kind of hard to keep that perspective when you lose fights because they're functionally retarded.

Well I have had a couple like that who couldn't be fixed, mostly because they got it in thier heads they're responding to something appropriately when they're actually not.

Its not neccessarily that they're bad people, just stupid. With people like that, I try to keep my temper in check and explain to them how to handle the situation properly. I mean, unless its a constant stream of fucking up coming from them, then I get a little more aggressive... usually where bind or crowd control strategies come in to play.

People used to bitch at me for having <call2> in my Shadowbind macros. Well, there's a reason for it, its because people kept hitting Suzaku or Seiryu after I would bind them >.>; This means now other people have to suffer the annoying <call2> "You spank it, you tank it!" Shadowbind macro because other people didn't pay attention and were stupid.

Its like working with lab rats sometimes.