So after 3 years you still can't solo this game?

[TheGrandMom]

FFXI is party based for one reason and one reason only, because its creators want it to be that way. Arguing that it shouldn't be is like going into a clothing store and yelling at the owner for not having any Preperation H for you to buy....it just doesn't make any sense.

[Kittyneko]

Kind of off-topic, but I can't help noticing that in almost every thread that is about MMO or this game's features, WoW is being mentioned. This is rather funny, cause a huge majority of WoW players don't even know about FFXI's existence.

Always this "Go play WoW," "WoW sucks," "WoW is better" WoW this WoW that, there are threads that are filled with people talking about WoW and their opinions and comparisons with FFXI. Do we really have to mention WoW in every thread?

[Feba]

a huge majority of WoW players don't even know about FFXI's existence.

You also have to realize though that a huge majority of WoW players are freakin' idiots.

Yeah, in a turn-based fashion if anything. Sorry if you don't get to select each attack of the AI.The whole point is that it is party based. It doesn't matter if you can control them or not. I will say though that there are characters in FF games that can't be controlled that are in your party (Sephiroth in FFVII anyone?).

Ok, so 1- The fact that in EVERY OTHER FF GAME EVER you control AN ENTIRE PARTY means that in a game where you DO NOT control an entire party, you are STILL forced to be in one? I'm not disagreeing with FFXI's heavy bias towards partying. I'm just saying that using other FF games as a justification makes no freaking sense. 2- And you have Sephiroth (A SINGLE, LAUGHABLY OVERPOWERED, CHARACTER) in your party in FF7 for what, 20, 30 minutes? Hardly precedent for spending the majority of the game in a party you have no control over.

And just how much BST, PUP, DRG solo experience do you have? Did you ever even have an NPC fellow? You don't play FFXI.

Oh please BBQ, taking things out of context and stretching your logic beyond even what's believable for you, just to get in a cheap shot?

Yes, I had an NPC fellow. I played it until the end of it's story missions, and then some. And yes, I played plenty with pet jobs, DRG was my favorite. Comparing them to a controllable NPC system takes brain damage.

Your comparisons make no sense-- DRG, yes the pet works under rather specific conditions. I spent a good amount of time soloing as a DRG/BRD, I knew exactly when I had to cast if I wanted to survive, thankyouverymuch. Have you ever played DRG in a party? Have you ever tried to cure a wyvern when it's taken AoE damage? Have you ever tried to tell a wyvern to back the hell off so it wouldn't die, while still staying in the fight yourself? Have you ever tried to get a wyvern to attack without attacking yourself?

Also, about those conditions, have you ever found an interface for changing them? (Putting on a helmet that changes the condition is not the same as setting what you want to happen when!)

You'd have to either have never played Dragoon and be a total fool, or have memory loss to think that controlling a party member as in FF12 or any other FF game ever is anything close to having a Wyvern.

I did not play PUP very much personally, however comparing attachments to gambits is still absurd. Attachments also force your automaton to take on other stats/abilities, last I checked, and are not solely a method of controlling when they do what. You also do not control them as you would a regular character, nor can they be leveled, equipped, and so on like a regular character.

On to NPCs, once again, the AI doing a certain thing when certain circumstances are met and the AI being controlled by gambits are not the same thing, and you know it. Setting an NPC to "Stalwart Shield" or however the hell it's spelled and setting Ashe to provoke any enemy in range and cure allies that fall below 40% is completely different, and anyone with half a brain knows it. I haven't played KH in a long time, but from what I remember, those NPCs would attack enemies without you needing to get involved, and were more intelligent in backing you up (although not as controllable or predictable)


Once again, I'm not saying SE needs to change anything, I'm just saying that using previous FF games as a reason for FFXI's forced partying is incredibly illogical unless FFXI has a method for you to control an entire party by yourself.

[TheGrandMom]

Kind of off-topic, but I can't help noticing that in almost every thread that is about MMO or this game's features, WoW is being mentioned. This is rather funny, cause a huge majority of WoW players don't even know about FFXI's existence.

Always this "Go play WoW," "WoW sucks," "WoW is better" WoW this WoW that, there are threads that are filled with people talking about WoW and their opinions and comparisons with FFXI. Do we really have to mention WoW in every thread?

WoW you make a really good point! I Would of Wanted to see less of it mentioned also. So lets try to Work on Whining less and more of enjoying Wine or Whiskey!







Sorry....bad day....brain fried....

[Kittyneko]

You also have to realize though that a huge majority of WoW players are freakin' idiots.

This is generalising a lot of people which is kind of unneccesary as FFXI has plenty of these "Idiots" as well.
And they're idiots because they don't know FFXI? That's just.. a whole different type of discussion.

Ok, so 1- The fact that in EVERY OTHER FF GAME EVER you control AN ENTIRE PARTY means that in a game where you DO NOT control an entire party, you are STILL forced to be in one? I'm not disagreeing with FFXI's heavy bias towards partying. I'm just saying that using other FF games as a justification makes no freaking sense. 2- And you have Sephiroth (A SINGLE, LAUGHABLY OVERPOWERED, CHARACTER) in your party in FF7 for what, 20, 30 minutes? Hardly precedent for spending the majority of the game in a party you have no control over.



Oh please BBQ, taking things out of context and stretching your logic beyond even what's believable for you, just to get in a cheap shot?

Yes, I had an NPC fellow. I played it until the end of it's story missions, and then some. And yes, I played plenty with pet jobs, DRG was my favorite. Comparing them to a controllable NPC system takes brain damage.

Your comparisons make no sense-- DRG, yes the pet works under rather specific conditions. I spent a good amount of time soloing as a DRG/BRD, I knew exactly when I had to cast if I wanted to survive, thankyouverymuch. Have you ever played DRG in a party? Have you ever tried to cure a wyvern when it's taken AoE damage? Have you ever tried to tell a wyvern to back the hell off so it wouldn't die, while still staying in the fight yourself? Have you ever tried to get a wyvern to attack without attacking yourself?

Also, about those conditions, have you ever found an interface for changing them? (Putting on a helmet that changes the condition is not the same as setting what you want to happen when!)

You'd have to either have never played Dragoon and be a total fool, or have memory loss to think that controlling a party member as in FF12 or any other FF game ever is anything close to having a Wyvern.

I did not play PUP very much personally, however comparing attachments to gambits is still absurd. Attachments also force your automaton to take on other stats/abilities, last I checked, and are not solely a method of controlling when they do what. You also do not control them as you would a regular character, nor can they be leveled, equipped, and so on like a regular character.

On to NPCs, once again, the AI doing a certain thing when certain circumstances are met and the AI being controlled by gambits are not the same thing, and you know it. Setting an NPC to "Stalwart Shield" or however the hell it's spelled and setting Ashe to provoke any enemy in range and cure allies that fall below 40% is completely different, and anyone with half a brain knows it. I haven't played KH in a long time, but from what I remember, those NPCs would attack enemies without you needing to get involved, and were more intelligent in backing you up (although not as controllable or predictable)


Once again, I'm not saying SE needs to change anything, I'm just saying that using previous FF games as a reason for FFXI's forced partying is incredibly illogical unless FFXI has a method for you to control an entire party by yourself.

You need to cool down.. really. Fact is, Dragoon is soloable and so are a lot of other jobs, and jobs who normally are bad at soloing can solo pretty well using an adventuring fellow, unfortunately this is not the sollution to long time partying.

*cough*campaign*cough*

In my linkshell someone has been leveling Monk since level 40. He has a high Campaign medal rank though, which allows him to obtain more experience points as a low ranked level 40. The bad side is that your skills won't skill up... but you can get those up soloing later. It has been about a week to two weeks, and he's level 63 now and did not have long playtimes (other than weekend's) at all.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I was simply stating there are gambit-like systems in the game.

And I do happen to have a DRG at 60, soloed enough of it to know that the wyvern is programmed to recognize and act upon certain condtions, which is what an AI gambit does. I can also point out that, with DRG, changing your subjob changes the criteria the pet looks for and also the role the wyvern takes on. Yeah, that.

PUP takes it a step further by allowing the player to customize the automation to recognize more specific conditions by how many/few of an attachment it has. The PUP can, in fact, add enough of a particular attachment to make a Soulsoother's Cures activate at higher level of HP for a PT member. Are you going to tell me that's not a custom gambit? I'm definately going to have to differ on that one.

Avatars are a bit less complicated, they only act to protect the player and otherwise follow direct commands. BST doesn't do any of the stuff mentioned above, the pet is completely under the control of the player, save for the fact that the pet randomly chooses what attack it uses when the player commands Sic. A BST adapts to the situation by having a selection of jug pets to use or mobs to charm, no AI tricks there.

If you want to split hairs and make up your own personal definitions of what AI actions are, fine, at the end of the day, there is pet AI in this game with criteria to follow that can be influenced and sometimes even altered by the player depending upon the job and even the subjob. I consider the attachements or automations or the ability to change a DRGs subjob a form of a gambit, the player can alter those aspects to suit thier needs for the situation.

[BurningPanther]

[/i]

This is generalising a lot of people which is kind of unneccesary as FFXI has plenty of these "Idiots" as well.
And they're idiots because they don't know FFXI? That's just.. a whole different type of discussion.




You need to cool down.. really. Fact is, Dragoon is soloable and so are a lot of other jobs, and jobs who normally are bad at soloing can solo pretty well using an adventuring fellow, unfortunately this is not the sollution to long time partying.

*cough*campaign*cough*

In my linkshell someone has been leveling Monk since level 40. He has a high Campaign medal rank though, which allows him to obtain more experience points as a low ranked level 40. The bad side is that your skills won't skill up... but you can get those up soloing later. It has been about a week to two weeks, and he's level 63 now and did not have long playtimes (otherthan weekend's) at all.

You're confusing the issue. What Feba was addressing was not how pets contribute to the player's exp gain in individual settings, he was arguing that comparing pet control in this game to party control in other games as comparing apples to oranges. It simply doesn't fit.

[Kittyneko]

You're confusing the issue. What Feba was addressing was not how pets contribute to the player's exp gain in individual settings, he was arguing that comparing pet control in this game to party control in other games as comparing apples to oranges. It simply doesn't fit.

And Omgwtfbbqkitten (I suggest this to be abbreviated to OWB x.x) stated that it's actually very similiar to other Final Fantasy battle systems.
But yes.. it's different. Just as if you could buy 5 more consoles or computer's, and 5 more FFXI accounts. However, because FFXI is missing anything near an ATB system you'll get way more stressed out, which doesn't happen (as quick) in other Final Fantasy games.

But... haven't we figured out by now that Final Fantasy XI is way different than other Final Fantasy games because it's the first and only MMO?

[assumedvigilance]

man i love to see people get all riled up and derail a topic... then the rest join in, pick sides, and make it even better... lol

[Kailea]

really this conversation is getting very retarded, must we dwindle this thread down to a (insert random thing about WoW) thread?

WoW is of a diffrent style of game, its an american style MMO, like EverQuest 1&2, and DAoC, or Ultima Online

FFXI is an Asian style MMORPG, all MMORPGs are good, if its your style of play, but just because you don't like something, does not mean it sucks or is bad.

Really people just think alittle before you join in an argument -.-

[Yellow Mage]

FFXI is an Asian style MMORPG, all MMORPGs are good, if its your style of play, but just because you don't like something, does not mean it sucks or is bad.

Heresy

[Kailea]

Heresy

when I said Asian style, I ment the type of game play not the way it looked -.-

[LadyKiKi]

Asian Style RPG = Grind grind grind/difficulty/teamwork
Western Style RPG = handouts/everyone for themself

I think is what Kailea was trying to say. Don't know if it's 100% true, but if it fits the cultural mentality ...

[Feba]

Fact is, Dragoon is soloable and so are a lot of other jobs, and jobs who normally are bad at soloing can solo pretty well using an adventuring fellow, unfortunately this is not the sollution to long time partying.

Are you people literate?

I'm not disagreeing with FFXI's heavy bias towards partying. I'm just saying that using other FF games as a justification makes no freaking sense.

I don't give a shit if the NPC or Wyvern helps you out, or if campaign is a good way to get EXP without joining a party. That was never my complaint, never my point, and never a subject of debate. Like you said yourself, it's not a solution to partying, which is very close to my point.

I was simply stating there are gambit-like systems in the game.

Then you'd be wrong. The main point of gambits is that you can set them yourself. Having to change from a melee subjob to a mage subjob just to change a bit of your wyvern's behavoir is very clearly not a gambit-like system. Is it kinda-sorta similar to gambits, in that "If Condition > x%, Use <Spell>" is how it works? I suppose. But this is like comparing poisona and erase.

Are you going to tell me that's not a custom gambit?

Yes, very clearly. Gambits were NEVER dependant on what you were equipped with or what job you use. Not ONCE in FF12 did I ever have to sacrifice a lance for a bow so I could improve my gambits (not counting needing ranged attacks, of course). Also see the above paragraph. A gambit is not an AI acting a certain way under certain circumstances, it is a thing which you can set and control with a good amount of precision and flexibility, and provides an ALTERNATIVE to babysitting characters, while still allowing you FULL MANUAL CONTROL over an entire REGULAR PLAYER CHARACTER that could just as easily replace your main character.

If you want to split hairs and make up your own personal definitions of what AI actions are, fine, at the end of the day, there is pet AI

Oh boy, pet AI! Thanks BBQ, you've shown me how wrong I really was. I mean, the pet having a bit of predictability really makes it like CONTROLLING AN ENTIRE PARTY MANUALLY doesn't it?

Just as if you could buy 5 more consoles or computer's, and 5 more FFXI accounts.

And plenty of people have done this. However, for the purposes of this argument, that's irrelevant, as I'm pretty freaking sure nobody every bought three extra NES and copies of FF just to be able to control those characters. If the characters aren't controlled by a single client and account, they might as well be considered to be controlled by other players-- which again, I'm not complaining about, but is not a valid comparison with other FF games.

[Dark Raz]

Hell only comparison to other FF games is the fact a good majority (probably all?) you are never solo in your ultimate goal..sure there's the 'one-on-one' phases, yet for the majority of the previous FF games you're always accompanied by allies, which alone you can compare to why FFXI is mostly dependent on parties for XP as you reach a certain range.