Adding dual weild to non-NIN jobs - Final Fantasy XI :: Dreams in Vana'diel :: Community

Feba · 03-18-2008, 11:55 PM

Does anyone think that the amount of people who feel like they must sub /NIN would decrease if other jobs were given dual wield? I'm just looking for opinions on the matter, I'm not saying I'd support it either way.

Also, Armando, if you aren't busy calculating how crappy Yoshi is, would you mind giving some estimates on how this could change attack power (for instance, if a WAR with /NIN got the same dual wield effect, and changed to /THF (SATA), /MNK, /SAM, etc.) and such?

Wise Donkey · 03-19-2008, 12:31 AM

I always thought the main reason for /NIN was Utsusemi, so I don't see giving other jobs Dual Wield really changing the /NIN craze. Sure they take advantage of DW since it is there, but I don't think it is the main draw.

Selphiie The Enchantress · 03-19-2008, 12:44 AM

Gawd especially people who only sub /nin for dual wield and dont even have Utsusemi...

Failure 75 WARs without GA skill...

-shudder-

WovenDarkness · 03-19-2008, 12:55 AM

I suppose it depends. Party people might sub something else if they could dual-wield and they didn't want / need shadows...or if they could have dw and get a different jobs benefits.

I can't see solo artists changing from /nin though.

Murphie · 03-19-2008, 01:01 AM

Since it's a bit of DW and a bit of lolshadows, it's hard to say.

Feba · 03-19-2008, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by Wise Donkey

I always thought the main reason for /NIN was Utsusemi,

well, originally, yes, but as evidenced by the amount of people who use NIN between 20 and 24, WARs that use it before 74 (except in a dual tank), and people that don't have Utsusemi, I think it's a bit of a question in itself if that's really the case anymore.

Murphie · 03-19-2008, 01:08 AM

I don't think it's fair to base our speculation on the stupidity of others. A lot of people sub the wrong thing or don't have the necessary gear/spells to do their jobs. That doesn't mean we should change the game because they can't get it together.

I know this is all just discussion, but seriously.

Feba · 03-19-2008, 01:15 AM

I'm not suggesting that is the case. I'm just saying that those things existing are a sign of people using /NIN for dual wield. Again, I'm not supporting or rejecting this, I just think it's an interesting idea.

Murphie · 03-19-2008, 01:18 AM

Yes, but their reasons are stupid. So...

Feba · 03-19-2008, 01:24 AM

Possibly. Unless dual wield itself is a valid enough reason to sub-NIN (and given that these people somehow get parties, that seems to be the case)

Murphie · 03-19-2008, 01:28 AM

It's not though. And they only do by other idiots, or people who are duped into thinking that they do have shihei and/or Ni on them.

Sevv · 03-19-2008, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by Selphiie The Enchantress

Gawd especially people who only sub /nin for dual wield and dont even have Utsusemi...

Failure 75 WARs without GA skill...

-shudder-

Failure is Warriors in meripos with Gaxe and /nin

Karinya · 03-19-2008, 04:07 AM

Originally Posted by Murphie

I don't think it's fair to base our speculation on the stupidity of others. A lot of people sub the wrong thing or don't have the necessary gear/spells to do their jobs. That doesn't mean we should change the game because they can't get it together.

I know this is all just discussion, but seriously.

But if we don't base our speculation on the stupidity of others, then there's nothing really wrong with /NIN before 74/37; it's mildly useful for pulling but reduces your damage compared to other subs you could have had, and DW1 isn't all that compared to abilities you could have had from other subs. (Anybody here remember THF/WAR Berserk+SATA? It kicks ass.)

It's after 74 that it makes you nearly invincible, which in a party with no real tank is going to beat the hell out of whatever else you would have used for more damage and more hate. (Yes, even for GA WARs. They could /SAM and do more damage... and probably be dead within the first 3 mobs.)

The problem with /NIN and the reason it's so popular is that subbed utsusemi is just too damn good. Until SE figures out some way to nerf it that doesn't cripple main NINs, people (especially above level 74) will continue to sub it because they want to live after delivering a 1000+ damage WS in a tankless party.

Murphie · 03-19-2008, 04:21 AM

Karinya, I fail to see how you were disagreeing with me or providing a new point I (or someone else) hadn't already mentioned.

Feba · 03-19-2008, 04:26 AM

I think he meant "If we don't have someone to call crappy, we don't have a measure of being good".