[Legal Fish]

I find myself bored again, so I think I'll post a little fun thread. I think both Conquest and Besieged have issues. I believe these issues can solved in a way that could be very successful with increasing the enjoyment of players. I'll do Besieged first, then Conquest.

Besieged

Flaws:
-Unbalanced for underpopulated servers or at times when population is low. (This might become more severe as the end-game focus is moved from Aht Urhgan with a new expansion).
-AFK players "taking up space".
-Very little incentive to do things outside of the actual battles in Al Zahbi to help against the battle.
-Certain aspects of the battles in Al Zahbi being broken.
-Besieged taking too long.

Changes made to the Battles in Al Zahbi.

1. The number of monsters/opponents that appear in each wave(in case you weren't sure, Besieged works in "waves") is based on the number of players in Al Zahbi.

How many monsters are removed can change throughout the battle. Wave #1 might be reduced more than Wave #3 because more players entered during the fight.

Example based on made up numbers: If the standard for a level 5 is 500 players and a Wave is to include a General/Sub-General and 10 monsters... if only 300 person are in Al Zahbi than only 5 or 6 monsters will appear with that General.

2. If a player is completely unmoved within the first 30 seconds on Besieged, he will be prompted a message similar to the kind that GM send to players they suspect of being bots. The message would have a timer of 60 seconds that a player could see count down.

Do you wish to participate in Besieged?
No
Yes

When the counter hits 0 or when a player selects "No", that player is teleported out of Al Zahbi and into Aht Urhgan Whitegate.

3. Have a "maximum" Besieged duration timer that activates the moment the "exp-bonus"/"level" General has been defeated. This counts the time it took to defeat that level general.

The reason I'm being more careful with this is that I'm not exactly sure what decides Besieged's duration, and if I say what I think does that would be speculation. Either way, adding a max duration might hurt some servers that try to gain the exp bonus.

(I have feeling it's the defeat of all the "enlarged" normal Beastmen. I also have a feeling the number of remaining serpent generals plays a big role. I recall many "OMG SAVE THE AC" fights lasting hours and hours).

20 Minutes + 10 minutes * level of Beastmen forces. (Minimum level 1=30 minutes. Maximum level 8= 100 minutes... oddly similar to Salvage)

(This might provide useful for battles that is desperate race to prevent the Astral Candescence from being captured).

4. Serpent Generals are immune to Doom or Death. This makes some Beastmen opponents not be especially broken.

5. Eidolic Qufeel Ja is adjusted in a manner that makes him less unbalanced. When he uses Utsusemi, he loses 10% of his health and his clone(s) have that 10% of health as their maximum HP. Eidolic Qufeel Ja is unable to Mijin Gakure, but his clones retain that ability.

6. The Mijin Gakure of Mamool Sappers and Astral Flow of Lamia Comandress are adjusted greatly when hitting large amount of players at once. Much like AoE spells, their damage will drop when many players are hit by those effects. (Example: if a Mijin Gakure is going to do 4000 damage... it will instead do 1500 on 20 people... 1000 on 30).

7. The amounts of health that can restored from Blood Saber, Malediction, and Grave Reel will have a cap based on the maximum HP of the user in Besieged. This will be roughly 10% of max health. This will not be reflected in the damage taken by players.

8. When the "Mega-Bosses" are defeated outside of Besieged, preventing them from appearing(Level 5 and above), their exp/IS bonuses(200) is automatically gained.

9. Opponents in Besieged will sometimes drop Medicine into the temporary item pools of the alliance that the last hit belongs to. This would normally be Potion, Hi-Potion, Ether, Hi-Ether, and Icarus Wing on normal monsters. On bosses this might be rarer medicines, such as replacements to the ones we receive at the beginning of Besieged.

10. At the end of Besieged, all status effects(including positive ones) are removed and all dead players are instantly raised. If you are familiar with Ballista or Brenner, the process is identical.


Changes made to Besieged elements outside of Al Zahbi.

1. Experiece/Limit Point awards would be added to the rescuing of prisioners and turning in Archaic Mirrors. The reward, much like Besieged, would be equal to the amount of IS gained.

Archaic Mirrors would grant 200.

Rescuing a normal citizen would grant 100 and a serpent general 500.

2. The rate Beastmen gain force level is no longer related to Archaic Mirrors. It is set on a timer that is easier to calculate. A Besieged will happen once everyday or every two days. This timer is only effected by the number of NMs alive in that Beastmen stronghold. It goes quicker if they are defeated and goes slower if they remain up. (4 + Beastmen leader). At optimal settings, the Beastmen will begin preparing the next day at the exact time their most recent Besieged ended. At least optimal settings, it would be two days at the exact time their most recent Besieged ended. (This timer can be messed up because of multiple Beastmen invading at the same time, but this isn't exactly a bad thing as it naturally fixes itself).

Archaic Mirrors will still play a important role in the deciding the strength of Notorious Monsters within and outside Besieged, including Astral Candescence Recovery.

3. The Preparing Stage of Besieged will shorten greatly:

5 minutes * Force Level.

(Maximum, level 8= 40 minutes).

In combination with the time it takes them to get to the city, players often have to wait too longer for a Besieged to start.

4. The item description "Besieged:" is removed from the game. It is replaced by "Assault:". After this change, "Assault:" and "Salvage:" items work in Besieged.

What this does is make a lot of items that are largely ignored and make them potentially much more desired. Most "Besieged:" items either come from spending IS after obtaining a higher Mercenary Rank or from NMs subtly connected to Besieged.


Changes to Astral Candescence Recovery

1. The nature of the keyitems required to enter the mini-dungeon before the fight and fight itself are changed. They no longer disappear when you discount or zone.

2. Along with 1000 IS, 1000 Exp should be rewarded to the winners.

3. Another reward should also be granted to the winners: A Multi-Use Runic Portal Permit of 5 charges. Recently SE explained why they had not added one before: it would allow people to use Runic Portals when the AC was taken. But, to someone who spent the effort to save it, it wouldn't be much of an "exploit" at all.


Continued in the next post.

[Legal Fish]

Conquest

Flaws:
-Even in it's prime, there weren't enough rewards to justify doing Expeditionary Forces. This left much of Conquest to be influenced by exp.
-Now that it isn't in it's prime, it has fallen into a state of neglect.
-Signet and the areas themselves are not viewed with much enthusiasm for exp parties.
-There is very little use for CP compared to IS.
-Aside from Expeditionary Forces and exping, there is little player can do to help. (Compared to Besieged: where a person can save prisioners, destroy mirrors, and defeat NMs all outside of Besieged and exping)

Changes made to Areas and Signet (a.k.a. Exping).

-Signet now grants an experience point bonus similar to Sanction. The bonus works in parts and the maximum bonus is 15%.

5% can be gained if your nation controls the region.

10% can be gained from having a temporary keyitem and being in a region that isn't controlled by the Beastmen. This keyitem is obtained through Expeditionary Forces and will be explained below.

-The respawn rate of monsters is adjusted to be effected by Conquest. When an area is controlled by a Nation, the respawn rate of monsters in field areas drop to 4 minutes and inside dungeons drops to 10 minutes. This can be accounted for as "the monster resisting and fighting back".

Monsters that are popped by trading an item to a ??? are also effected. The respawn timer of the ??? will be lowered to 5 minutes instead of 15.

-New NMs will be added with interesting/decent drops that will only appear when an area is controlled by a nation.

-A quest is added to Uleguerand Range. It's a very long quest which requires the player to practically fully explore the area and surf down the mountain top multiple times. It's broken into parts. Each part gives the player access to a special warp to a higher part in the mountain(just before a tunnel). When the quest in completed entirely, you are able to warp just before the top, which is a popular Exp camp for merits/getting 75. This will be the CoP version of "moon".

Changes to Expeditionary Forces

-For each "Flag" that's captured, an experience point reward is granted. The amount is based on cap:

30-40: 400 Exp.

50-uncapped: 800 Exp.

You can no longer gain exp naturally from these opponents if you were low enough.

-A special "boss" NM can be encountered during EFs, which when defeated will drop a Chest/Coffer full of goods. This boss will only appear at chance(a decent one) after 4 flags. This "resets" after he is popped and he can be fought again under the same conditions.

The rewards would be very similar to a BCNM: instant gil, perhaps some random drops based on monsters in the area, and potentially very valuable rewards. The valuable rewards could be sellable or rare/ex items that are unique to that EF area and/or cap. It also could be very rare materials or NM drops, like O-Kotes from doing an EF in Meriphataud Mountains.

(I imagine for 30 caps a torque item line, rare/ex, each a random skill+3. Then for 40 caps, a sellable torque line of melee, Skill+3. Terrigan's uncapped ought to have rewards that appeals to end-game players)

-EFs will be possible in Tavnazian Archipelago after reaching Chapter 5. It would be uncapped and generally more difficult than the others(including Terrigan). The rewards granted from bosses would be very sought out.

-When accepting your reward(which is based on if you are able to grab any areas at the end of Conquest Tally), if you were able to obtain one region, you will be granted the keyitem(something like "Adventurer Badge") that grants a 10% exp bonus with Signet. You will also get access to exclusive access to purchase some keyitems(mentioned below) with CP.

The Adventurer's Badge would expire after two Conquest Tallys. You can keep it "refreshed" by constantly doing EFs.

Other Changes/Additions to Conquest.

-Garrison becomes more tied into Conquest. It becomes the main means for a nation to hold control over an area(as they can not EF).

-New rewards are added to Garrison.

-An uncapped Garrison is added to Movalpolos. It was very unique rewards and is especially challenging.

-A repeatable(once a week) quest-line is added to each city. It works very similar to Chocobo's "Hot and Cold Game". You get a "!" marked on a map randomly in a zone(a handful of zones, hopefully bringing traffic to dead ones). Touch the ??? that spawned there, get level capped, and kill a NM or two that pops from it(no interference, like Garrison and Eco-Warrior). Make a pretty decent exp reward and have it have a decent effect on Conquest. The fights wouldn't be hard and easy to solo/duo. (For bonus: make it related to Fellowship).

-In Tavnazia, a NPC and quest is added. Once the quest is complete, a Warp service is added. This Warp brings you to Aht Urhgan Whitegate. It is only accessible if the region isn't controlled by Beastmen and the AC is in Al Zahbi. (For cuteness sake, let's have the NPC be the Warp-Taru-Brothers long-lost brothers... which would require the younger brother to be in Al Zahbi).


Additions/Changes to Conquest Points Rewards.

-Signet Staff's CP price become 3000 with the Adventurer's Badge.

-The following Keyitems become accessible with the Adventurer's Badge. Their duration is 1 Conquest Tally.

Rank 6, 500 CP: Can use Conquest Points instead of Gil to pay for basic services(it gives the option, not 100%). This includes Boats(50 CP), Airships(100 CP), Outpost Warps(100 to 750 CP), and even reduces the fee to Cosmos-Clean(gil price drops to 10k, 7500 CP).

Rank 8, 750 CP: Items with the description "Outside of Nation's Control" work in Areas under your nation's control.

Rank 10, 1000 CP: Items with the description "Inside of Nation's Control" and "Outside's Nation's Control" work in Aht Urhgan areas under specific conditions. "Inside" works in the region with the Astral Candenscence and Assault(only the five basic areas). "Outside" works in the regions without the Astral Candenscence(by default, Salvage and Nyzul Assault).

-Three new "Scrolls" are added to Rank 4's item list, they need to be unlocked first.

Scroll of "Instant Teleport-Mea"
Scroll of "Instant Teleport-Dem"
Scroll of "Instant Teleport-Holla"
500 CP

They are unlocked from doing the Eco-Warrior quest of a specific nation. (Windurst=Mea, Bastok=Dem, and San d'Oria=Holla).

(Further additions to Eco-Warrior, though a bit off topic:
-Easy to cancel, like Escort.
-The level cap doesn't wear off on death or zone.
-The level cap can only be grabbed once a week, it is then canceled after 45 minutes. The quest is canceled and needs to be reactivated next Conquest Tally to try again.
-When you collect your keyitem, you gain instant exp based on how many monsters you killed on the way to the boss. 25 exp per EP-EM, 50 exp per T-VT, 100 exp per IT, caps at 1500 exp/limit points... similar to "Investigate the Emptiness" fellowship mini-quest)

-New synthesis recipes are added for (non-rare/ex) weapons/armor that can be bought at Rank 6 to 9.

The weapons would especially Rank 9's upgraded forms would be especially sought of out for very strong bonuses(on Perdu weapon tier) that become accessible within areas of national control. They still retain their normal "Citizen of Nation:" bonuses, but gain more on top of it. Something like Haste+2%, Accuracy+3(double for 2-hand weapons) within a region of nation's control. Aside from this, they would get a boost in base damage so they are up to tier with more popular weapons. (And become level 75).


And that's all.

[Kuro]

i'd rather see surprise attacks instead of beseiged.

you don't usually know when someones about to attack your city, but in FFXI tiem we have a few weeks to prepare >.>

[AgentBrownEye]

well brp, typically your stuff is cynical, but i like these ideas.

[silentsteel]

wow, I really like the Conquest Ideas. I've done a few Garrisons, Really Enjoyed it and wish there were more reasons to do the others besides lvl 20, and I've always wanted to try EF (and do Eco-War sandy again... I've had it flagged for Forever and my LS did bastoks, I couldnt help =x)

I also like the CP ideas, good job with those ^^b

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Originally Posted by Legal Fish

6. The Mijin Gakure of Mamool Sappers and Astral Flow of Lamia Comandress are adjusted greatly when hitting large amount of players at once. Much like AoE spells, their damage will drop when many players are hit by those effects. (Example: if a Mijin Gakure is going to do 4000 damage... it will instead do 1500 on 20 people... 1000 on 30).

Oh yes, pleeeeease, SE make an adjustment for this. An AoE move that does 4000 damage each to a group of players larger than an alliance... it's just broken.

As one more change to Besieged, I would suggest that players who are dead at the end of Besieged should still be rewarded for their efforts. It's terrible to get gypped out of your reward simply because you got unlucky during the last minute of a Besieged (e.g. dying, accepting reraise, and then getting hit by a fluke AoE and dying again before you could get reraise up again).

[Legal Fish]

Hmmm... that totally slipped my mind. I've added a fix to that issue in the first post.

I also added Ule. Range warp and Tavnasia Warp to Aht Urhgan.

[KoukiRyu]

I really really like your conquest changes. I enjoy exp'ing conquest areas quite a bit, and all of those additions would be more than welcome for me. :]

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I've never understood the "too long" complaint for Beseiged. Its a city raid, its not exactly going to be short and sweet and its usually disappointing when that actually does happy. I usually hear booing and jeering when Besieged ends too quickly.

1k EXP bonuses for anything is hardly sufficient reward when you consider you can just get that in 5 minutes at just about any ToA camp. With IS, Empress Band and Corsair's Roll active, you could almost get that in 2-3 kills. If there's going to "Quest for EXP" or an incentive to raid beastmen fortresses, the EXP rewards should be 3k at mimimum, more for returning the AC.

I disagree that raiding beastmen fortresses aren't worth it, there's many compelling reasons for various jobs to go do them and its a good time with a good group. The problem lies in that some of the gear would be better off if some of the stats on said gear didn't trigger of being in Besieged itself.

As long as forced-capping exisits, Expeditionary Force isn't going to be interesting to people, its a combination of lack of compelling rewards on top of the level-capping. Its not common for people to do any BCNMs pre-40 and most people prefer to do KS30s over the remainder. EFs need to be adjustable by level like Assault is and the rewards should reflect those levels.

Conquest items need get modernized a bit. I find it silly for this gear to me nation/conquest latent when they don't apply to ToA or WotG zones. Remove the restrictions of these so this gear can remain relevant.

Let people keep all their OPs if they change national Alliegence. Losing all the OPs you worked for just because you wanted Conquest gear from another nation or to complete the stories of other nations is a MAJOR EYESORE in the conquest system. Let players experience the stories that could be relevant to future storylines without restrictions on OP progress.

[Malacite]

Conquest EXP Bonuses

Also, the way I figure it the EXP bonus would be a flat rate given to people from the nation that controls the region. Tough luck to anyone who isn't a member of whatever nation controls the area at the time. You don't like it, then fight for your country!
The only other option would be to give bonuses based on regional influence (maybe these could be done addition to the above)
For example; San d'Oria controls Zulkeim. All San d'Orians gain say a 15-20% EXP bonus for all kills in the region. Bastok and Windurst could then gain smaller bonuses that scale according to their regional influence until the next update. This way they aren't entirely left out, but don't get the full benefits of controlling the region either.
Either that, or give some kind of additional bonus effects to whoever controls the region. Anything to spur more participation in conquest (EXP rewards for successful expeditionary forces for instance)

Those are some thoughts from the other thread I started about BLM and Tanking.

I agree that conquest is in need of a complete overhaul.

[Legal Fish]

Also, the way I figure it the EXP bonus would be a flat rate given to people from the nation that controls the region. Tough luck to anyone who isn't a member of whatever nation controls the area at the time. You don't like it, then fight for your country!

The problem I have with this is that it is too black and white. It practically makes the nation enemies instead of allies.

Also, compared to the system I presented above, it does more to reward lazy players and not reward hardworking players(which makes it odd for you to say "fight for your country"). You can just pick the most popular nation or nation with the most active EF LS and reap the rewards without lifting a finger.

I've never understood the "too long" complaint for Beseiged. Its a city raid, its not exactly going to be short and sweet and its usually disappointing when that actually does happy. I usually hear booing and jeering when Besieged ends too quickly.

You can save the world in 30 minutes, I don't think you should bring "realism" into this.

Besieged takes awhile and still would take awhile, however, there are times when the Beastmen won't retreat for 3 hours with only 2 or 3 monsters remaining. It's a bit ridiculous and only takes away from the fun. Remember: Besieged should be fun.

1k EXP bonuses for anything is hardly sufficient reward when you consider you can just get that in 5 minutes at just about any ToA camp. With IS, Empress Band and Corsair's Roll active, you could almost get that in 2-3 kills. If there's going to "Quest for EXP" or an incentive to raid beastmen fortresses, the EXP rewards should be 3k at mimimum, more for returning the AC.

When saving the Astral Candescence, you really shouldn't be out to get some rewards. All I do is make it consistent with how rewards in Besieged work. The key is to not ask too much... it's a slippery slope from there.

I disagree that raiding beastmen fortresses aren't worth it, there's many compelling reasons for various jobs to go do them and its a good time with a good group. The problem lies in that some of the gear would be better off if some of the stats on said gear didn't trigger of being in Besieged itself.

Yes... this is why I remove "Besieged:" and turn into it "Assault:" and allow "Assault:" and "Salvage:" activate in Besieged.

I didn't make any other changes to "raiding" of Beastmen layers aside from Mirrors and Rescuing Prisoners more beneficial and consistent with Besieged style of reward.

Actually, I also removed the negative traits of killing a Beastmen Leader and capturing mirrors.

As long as forced-capping exisits, Expeditionary Force isn't going to be interesting to people, its a combination of lack of compelling rewards on top of the level-capping. Its not common for people to do any BCNMs pre-40 and most people prefer to do KS30s over the remainder. EFs need to be adjustable by level like Assault is and the rewards should reflect those levels.

I disagree with you to a large degree. Force-capping will prevent EFs from becoming extremely popular, but it won't case it not to be popular. What I have done here is set the groundwork for Linkshells to be based around Conquest or Besieged.

I've practically made a "Beginner's End-Game", if that makes any sense. Now new players will join nation-based LSes that have events like Eco-Warrior and Expeditionary Forces(as this was once a case when the game was mostly new). Why? Because they help you level up faster. You'll want that 10% exp bonus and you'll want to gain 4,000ish(10 flags) exp with an alliance or other people. Let's not forget the unique and rare drops.

And you are wrong about people not doing BCNM20 and 30. I've seen it with my eyes a lot and there are very often mannequin heads/hands/body for sell. Just because YOU don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Please learn this, it would prevent a lot of disagreements.

Conquest items need get modernized a bit. I find it silly for this gear to me nation/conquest latent when they don't apply to ToA or WotG zones. Remove the restrictions of these so this gear can remain relevant.

Cool, you know if Conquest items won't work in WotG? When was this said?

And I already addressed the issue Conquest items not working in ToAU. Please read the part about the keyitems.

Let people keep all their OPs if they change national Alliegence. Losing all the OPs you worked for just because you wanted Conquest gear from another nation or to complete the stories of other nations is a MAJOR EYESORE in the conquest system. Let players experience the stories that could be relevant to future storylines without restrictions on OP progress.

On the contrary, this is an issue with the mission system, not Conquest. Conquest only benefits from people doing Outpost Supplies. I believe SE has said this themselves on why it hasn't changed. If they do want to change it, so be it, but it's hardly related to the contents of this thread.

[Malacite]

SE should implement some new Assault missions to make raids on the beastmen strongholds, either to weaken the next besieged or soften them up when attempting to get back the AC.

They claim that Assault already has this kind of an effect but I've never been able to discern it myself.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Originally Posted by Legal Fish

The problem I have with this is that it is too black and white. It practically makes the nation enemies instead of allies.

That's exactly the point I was trying to make in my comments regarding exp bonus based on your nation being in control of a region. I'm glad to see someone else sees the same issue with it that I do.

There are some regions that very rarely change hands. Bastokers will stay in control of S. Gustaberg 99% of the time, so players from the other two nations won't reap the exp bonus in Korroloka Tunnel. San d'Oria will stay in control of Ronfaure 99% of the time. So players from the other two nations won't benefit from the exp bonus in KRT.

Sanction exp bonus works well because either everyone has it or no one has it. Signet exp bonus should focus on what players have in common, rather than having them focus on their differences. Losing the exp bonus due to a region being under beastmen control, for example, would be fine. Although it would be frustrating that the bonus can't be restored for an entire real-life week (i.e. after conquest standings are retallied). At least with the Sanction exp bonus, it's returned once the Astral Candescence is recaptured.