[Macht]

Hmm, very nice. Tried to see if I could find anything that could nay-say the result, the only thing I could find that might make skeptics is that the mob died to the attack so how can you be sure it's accurate. Kind of a weak skepticism since damage dealt also coincides with 4 hits.

Pretty nice work.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Originally Posted by Macht

Hmm, very nice. Tried to see if I could find anything that could nay-say the result, the only thing I could find that might make skeptics is that the mob died to the attack so how can you be sure it's accurate. Kind of a weak skepticism since damage dealt also coincides with 4 hits.

When I saw the screen shot from the first occurrence, I thought of one strange possibility where perhaps the game creditted the 2 TP gain from being hit by the Dhalmel after the WS fired (due to strangeness with lag, etc). However, the high damage of the WS in question pretty much seals the deal.

[Armando]

Thanks Macht. To be honest, I didn't expect that much of the Dhalmel's HP to disappear. When it happened I was like "huh?" for the first 3 seconds while I figured out what the hell happened. Anyways, if the damage isn't enough, it's impossible for the Dhalmel to have hit me because the /echo commands appear pretty much instantly on the chat log, and there's a hit of mine between the mob's last hit and the /echo. The /echos definetely occurred after the Dhalmel hit me. In any case, I screenshotted 193 out of those 200 trials, so I can back up the other numbers too XD

[Macht]

Originally Posted by LyonheartLakshmi

When I saw the screen shot from the first occurrence, I thought of one strange possibility where perhaps the game creditted the 2 TP gain from being hit by the Dhalmel after the WS fired (due to strangeness with lag, etc). However, the high damage of the WS in question pretty much seals the deal.

Yeah, that was one I was looking at too with latency. However latency has never bumbled a chat message were a dhalmel deals damage to you and then you striking after and then doing the WS. It's nearly impossible for that to get bumbled up. Much like what Armando said.

That's why the only thing I could see to arise some skepticism would be that the dhalmel died from the WS so some might find some reason to say that isn't a valid result. Otherwise it would pretty hard to dispute that the dhalmel's damage was credited after the WS took effect, especially since the player dealt damage after the NPC attacked and on top of that the /echo for the macro occured.

So it would have to be an all or nothing deal, meaning that you actually have to prove that a 4+TP (dhalmel hit & player attack) error was in Armando's favor. That's impossible since 4 - 9 = 5 which is a TP amount you can't get from 2 hits.

If I really wanted to get elaborate though, I could claim that Armando's evidence is falsed by them possibly going Beserk (Which as I see no evidence can prove against that). Then I could call a latency error in their favor were system registered 2 hits (Berserk should make 2 hits get into the 322 easy) with the first missing on Fast Blade and then counting the dhalmel's damage and the attack they did making it look like a 9TP return.

Which though since Armando provided the weapon used too, as long as that part can be proved then it means that weapon would have to return 5TP a hit for you to get a 9 TP result still.

[Armando]

I don't get where the 4 and the 5 are coming from Either way Berserk does nothing for them; my Attack is capped even before they Berserk.

[Mouser]

Just for another data point, but I occasionally get 18 TP return on Raging Rush (base 16 if the normal 3 hits connect) as 75 WAR with Brutal Earring and AF2 legs.

As 75 DRG/SAM using Penta Thrust (with Brutal Earring), I'll very rarely see a 23 TP return (21 base).

[AgentBrownEye]

Originally Posted by Malacite

I average 6 TP a swing I believe with DW2, so that's 12 base, so 4 more swings since it's a 5-hit WS boosts that to 16.

DW has absolutely NOTHING to do with TP gain per hit of your axe, sorry pal.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Originally Posted by AgentBrownEye

DW has absolutely NOTHING to do with TP gain per hit of your axe, sorry pal.

Dual Wield can potentially lower the TP you gain per hit. If you equip a Viking Axe as a WAR/MNK, you'd gain 7.3 TP per hit. If you dual wield two Viking Axes, you'd gain 6.3 TP per hit.

[Celeal]

Originally Posted by AgentBrownEye

DW has absolutely NOTHING to do with TP gain per hit of your axe, sorry pal.

Maybe you are confused with the difference DW and Haste. DW reduces both delay and TP gain from each swing.

[AgentBrownEye]

Originally Posted by Celeal

Maybe you are confused with the difference DW and Haste. DW reduces both delay and TP gain from each swing.

i realize DW reduces delay, but tp per hit? you sure about that?

[Celeal]

If you want real data, I can use my NIN to confirm it when I have a chance to get in the game tonight (Dual Weird 4 + AF body).

There is also a post written by the OP (Armando), which explain Dual Weird in detail, I suggest you to check that out, very interesting info ^^

Dual Weild Mojo

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Originally Posted by Celeal

If you want real data, I can use my NIN to confirm it when I have a chance to get in the game tonight (Dual Weird 4 + AF body).

He's got NIN leveled high enough that it would be trivial for him to test it out on his own... that is, if he doesn't trust wiki for some reason.

[Armando]

I practically re-wrote the Wiki's article from scratch after the big TP gain change, so you'll just have to believe me when I say I tested and re-tested everything before writing the article and that post. That, or you can compare your TP return after 10 hits with a single-handed axe (make sure you don't get hit!) and 10 hits dual wielding the same thing. Easiest way is to just one-shot Lv.0 mobs so you don't get hit and the second hits from DW or DA don't screw up the test. It's a very simple and straightforward test that'll give you your exact TP/hit if you divide the total

By the way, there won't be any updates this weekend, sorry D:

[Spider-Dan]

A little late to the party, but yeah, something very similar has already been proven:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.h...84382218009003

It's a 5-hit Shark Bite as /WAR, which means that both 3A and 2A have triggered on the same hand. It does more damage and returns more TP than would be possible from a 4-hit SB.

Not sure if you're specifically trying to isolate 2A for this test, but anyway... hope that helps.

[Armando]

Ah, yeah. I had seen that post a while ago. I was trying to isolate Double Attack since even with that thread's evidence anyone can say "that doesn't mean they can each proc more than once, it just means they can both happen." Thanks for pointing that out though, I forgot to mention it. If Triple Attack can proc more than once (which I assume it does,) then that means that with lottery-like probabilities, a 3-hit WS can be turned into an 8-hit one with three 3As, or two 3As and a 2A. An 8 hit Shark Bite must look absurd.

Oh, yeah, there's also this...

5 TP Vorpal Blade

First hit returns 6 TP (Bastard Sword +1) so the first hit definetely missed. The damage is consistent with the 5-hit Vorpals and my better 4-hit Vorpal Blades, too. (Also, who says you can't evade stuff in a Haubergeon? XD)