[Kutch]

..catchy title, isn't it?

I thought I'd share my thouhts on this.

First of all, I have 4 computers at my desktop, so I have no need to use a windower application. I play 3 accounts, and use the 4th computer to check my email, to look up tradeskill, monster, and area information.

I am a working person, so I have money and can afford to have several computers at home. Other people might play FFXI on Xbox or a PS2, and hence use their home computer for checking up extra game info, such as recepies, area information or just surf out of boredom.

Now, there are many, many players that play on a computer that cannot afford a second one, maybe because they are without their own income, or maybe they just don't want to.

In any event, banning the use of a windower is discriminatory against these persons. The logic being that people that can afford to have a computer next to their running FFXI game will have an advantage over those that cannot.

The claim, as I have seen it from many people here, is that it makes it easier for people to cheat with 3d party tools IF they can run FFXI in a window. Stating this is just as stupid as stating that cars shold be banned, because you CAN run people over with them.
It is just as stupid as saying that crowbars shold be banned, because they can be used to break into other people's homes.

If SE instead of CLAIMING to have an "Unsurpassed" GM presence in the game, actually logged on to ANY of the other MMO's out there, they would quickly learn that their GM presense in the game is ridiculous. What SE needs to learn, is that ANY community, including a virtual one, like Vana d'Iel, needs police. And as hundreds of years of examples from all around the world can show you - PRESENCE is all. Make GM's visible, and have them patrol random areas of the game as often as echonomically possible.

Some games, such as Everquest, even implement teh concept of deputization, meaning, regular players, like you and me, can undergo some off-track training to perform tasks as GM assistants. This deputy service is performed on another server than the one that the player normally plays on, so that he/she is perfectly anonymous - and it works! well!

More GM presence, and deputization is IMO a much better way of catching cheating players than simply barring people without a second computer from using a tool that allows them to open up internet explorer and do other tasks than just play the game.

That, friends is my logic for stating that the windower apps out there shold not have a raison d'etre, SE shold give everyone the option to ALT-TAB themselves.

Not doing so, is just a discrimination of honest players that cannot afford a computer next to their FFXI game.

[Bitter Wisp]

More GM presence, and deputization is IMO a much better way of catching cheating players than simply barring people without a second computer from using a tool that allows them to open up internet explorer and do other tasks than just play the game.

That is the largest violation. There is no excuse for ever opening that piece of shit.
But i agree. Windowers should be allowed.

[Feba]

Vana d'Iel

lol!


Anyway, there's already another thread or two for the rest of the post.

[Shopee]

Since when is SE responsible for people being able to do stuff on the computer while they play?

To be honest, I don't see the discrimination here.*

*- I'm still trying to see the connection. Could you clarify?

[Myaku]

Originally Posted by Kutch

<snip>... a discrimination of honest players that cannot afford a computer next to their FFXI game.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but discrimination only works as an arguement if it is against a protected class. Last I checked, "People Only Able To Afford One(1) PC" was not a protected class. Insert Coin. Try Again.

[Kutch]

Originally Posted by Shopee

Since when is SE responsible for people being able to do stuff on the computer while they play?

To be honest, I don't see the discrimination here.

The discrimination, since you don't see it is this:

I got enough money to have a computer next to me JUST to surf the net with, run Messenger for chatting with friends, running music in the background, checknig email - all the stuff that you CANNOT do while running FFXI on a computer.

People who do not have the means to buy another computer to do this - cannot d this. They cannot look up a recepy on the net, they cannot look up information about loot, or what item drops where, etc, because to do this, they need a second computer. Computers are cheap to me, but to a student, they are not.


Get the idea?

[Shopee]

Originally Posted by Kutch

The discrimination, since you don't see it is this:

I got enough money to have a computer next to me JUST to surf the net with, run Messenger for chatting with friends, running music in the background, checknig email - all the stuff that you CANNOT do while running FFXI on a computer.

People who do not have the means to buy another computer to do this - cannot d this. They cannot look up a recepy on the net, they cannot look up information about loot, or what item drops where, etc, because to do this, they need a second computer. Computers are cheap to me, but to a student, they are not.


Get the idea?

Not quite. I wasn't aware it was a right to be able to look up recipes while playing the game.

All it means is people with more money have more options, and have access to more luxuries.

This is usually how things work, no? I mean, I see this akin to arguing that a company is discriminating against those who can only afford low end PCs, because people with low end PCs can only handle the game, and not something in the background, whereas people with more money can.

[Mog]

Originally Posted by Feba

lol!

lawlerz!

And I agree. Windower should be allowed.

[DakAttack]

IE > Firefox

JUST GET AN ANTIVIRUS AND POP UP BLOCKER YOU NERDS

[Feba]

Why run five different programs, when I could run one, AND have super-cool plugins to boot?


OH NOES, PLUGINS, I HAVE AN ADVANTAGE OVER THE IE USERS WHO CAN'T... well, that joke was going somewhere, and i'm too lazy to finish it. Eh.

[Kutch]

Originally Posted by Shopee

Not quite. I wasn't aware it was a right to be able to look up recipes while playing the game.

It isn't a human right, lol, but it's unfair. And SE shold see this, and enable ALT-TAB in FFXI - plain and simple.

[Shopee]

Originally Posted by Kutch

It isn't a human right, lol, but it's unfair. And SE shold see this, and enable ALT-TAB in FFXI - plain and simple.

Gotcha. I just associate "discrimination" with something a lot heavier than being able to browse a net while playing the game

It would be great if SE enabled ALT-TAB, but I can't call them out on banning windower.

It's perfectly within their rights as a company.

P.S. Great avatar. Moose rawk.

[Mhurron]

Originally Posted by Kutch

It isn't a human right, lol, but it's unfair. And SE shold see this, and enable ALT-TAB in FFXI - plain and simple.

You can't alt-tab on the PS2, so SE providing a windowed environment for the PC version would be 'unfair' for the PS2 users.

In short, you agreed to it, no it's not unfair.

[DakAttack]

Originally Posted by Feba

Why run five different programs, when I could run one, AND have super-cool plugins to boot?


OH NOES, PLUGINS, I HAVE AN ADVANTAGE OVER THE IE USERS WHO CAN'T... well, that joke was going somewhere, and i'm too lazy to finish it. Eh.

Sorry, I forgot. Sloth is the mother of invention.

[Feba]

You can't alt-tab on the PS2, so SE providing a windowed environment for the PC version would be 'unfair' for the PS2 users.

Um, yes you can. Change the freaking channel. That's what PC users are asking for, and PS2 users can, with their equivilent.