Cheating and Stuff

[Leos]

A cheat is a cheat and there's no difference between enabling minimization and warping around instant claiming everything?

Obviously there's a grey area. You should probably rethink your stance.

Like I already said, they are both against the Terms of Agreement. It's nice that you think one is more acceptable than the other but at the end of the day if you're using a windower only and not other cheats or plug ins or instant claiming bot, you are still susceptible to a ban. I'm not saying there is no differences to cheats, obviously they are all different, but they all result in the same thing, that's why you can't really sit on the fence on this. You are either violating the rules or you are not. Are you telling me that if you're only using a windower that you are not a cheater? Then I dare you to call a GM and tell him you are on a windower and prove it to me that you will not be banned. So, no I don't think I need to rethink my stance. You should actually try reading the post I made.

Yes I am a cheater, I use a windower, I use a minimap, I dat swap, but in terms of morality and because they are blatantly obvious to spot I would never use a bot to outclaim, I wouldn't use a flee tool and whatever else. And hell yes I am still scared to get banned when/if they ever discover that I am using a windower. Just because the general populace thinks it's considered "okay" it doesn't mean it is in the eyes of the people who set up the rules (In this case SE). And if you think I'm wrong show me anywhere in the ToS where it's says enabling minimization is okay and isn't as bannable as instant claiming everything.

Edit: reply to Dagon

Well I just wanna say that the way you said that sounds like a louded shootgun pointed at me (Leos) but I don't mind becase I know what your saying , next time try to make it sound like it not pointing toward anyone ok!

First of all, i didn't read your post when I posted. Second I clearly didn't intend my post to be pointed at anyone. If I did, I would address them. So I don't need you to tell me that I shouldn't try to make it sound like I am pointing at anyone when I am not. Lastly, after reading your post, it's pretty clear that I wasn't even referring to you because your stance is that cheating is bad. So maybe try reading and understanding what people have to say first before thinking they are trying to offend you, ok?

[DakAttack]

Like I already said, they are both against the Terms of Agreement. It's nice that you think one is more acceptable than the other but at the end of the day if you're using a windower only and not other cheats or plug ins or instant claiming bot, you are still susceptible to a ban. I'm not saying there is no differences to cheats, obviously they are all different, but they all result in the same thing, that's why you can't really sit on the fence on this. You are either violating the rules or you are not. Are you telling me that if you're only using a windower that you are not a cheater? Then I dare you to call a GM and tell him you are on a windower and prove it to me that you will not be banned. So, no I don't think I need to rethink my stance. You should actually try reading the post I made.

Yes I am a cheater, I use a windower, I use a minimap, I dat swap, but in terms of morality and because they are blatantly obvious to spot I would never use a bot to outclaim, I wouldn't use a flee tool and whatever else. And hell yes I am still scared to get banned when/if they ever discover that I am using a windower. Just because the general populace thinks it's considered "okay" it doesn't mean it is in the eyes of the people who set up the rules (In this case SE). And if you think I'm wrong show me anywhere in the ToS where it's says enabling minimization is okay and isn't as bannable as instant claiming everything.

The ToS means very little when it's enforced completely at any one GM's descretion. It's like we're dealing with those small, technical driving laws like using your lights to change lanes and making a complete and utter stop at a stop sign before continuing. Police aren't enforcing them all the time, if at all, because they're primarly a tool for them to pull over people they suspect of commiting larger crimes to investigate. You can't pull somebody over because you think they're selling pot out of their trunk, but you can pull them over because they forget to signal their lane change and investigate from there.

FFXI GMs don't work like that. Red or black, pick a number, spin the wheel, GM Roll, whatever. The grey areas are created when the black and white ToS was muddled by loose enforcement. It's the Wild Wild West out there with the GMs being a random bullet or stray arrow.

[ben67]

well SE is getting pretty bad.. I got lvl71 THF account banned for shoutingI was in white gate shouting jokes. I shouted "Hay gilseller gimmie 5 mil at a discount"
The GM didn't think that was funny and suspended my account.
I asked him who was Offended by my shouts and got no answer except I violated TOS.
Yea like gilsellers are going to come to me running when I'm shouting.
I Guess since SE isn't based in America that Free speach is out.
The GM told me that would have 4 day suspension. but going on 3 weeks now.
tech support told me that acct is banned.
So now you Gotta watch what u say. or end up like me

[Lilani]

well SE is getting pretty bad.. I got lvl71 THF account banned for shoutingI was in white gate shouting jokes. I shouted "Hay gilseller gimmie 5 mil at a discount"
The GM didn't think that was funny and suspended my account.
I asked him who was Offended by my shouts and got no answer except I violated TOS.
Yea like gilsellers are going to come to me running when I'm shouting.
I Guess since SE isn't based in America that Free speach is out.
The GM told me that would have 4 day suspension. but going on 3 weeks now.
tech support told me that acct is banned.
So now you Gotta watch what u say. or end up like me

I'm sorry, but I really must reply to this in this way: you were the one stupid enough to think that was funny. Yes it earns a few chuckles, but you wouldn't believe how many stupid gilbuyers are out there. If you think free speech protects your right to stupid jokes then I think you need to reread the first amendment.

[Murphie]

Free speech is not a protected right in a video game. Sorry.

[Leos]

The ToS means very little when it's enforced completely at any one GM's descretion. It's like we're dealing with those small, technical driving laws like using your lights to change lanes and making a complete and utter stop at a stop sign before continuing. Police aren't enforcing them all the time, if at all, because they're primarly a tool for them to pull over people they suspect of commiting larger crimes to investigate. You can't pull somebody over because you think they're selling pot out of their trunk, but you can pull them over because they forget to signal their lane change and investigate from there.

FFXI GMs don't work like that. Red or black, pick a number, spin the wheel, GM Roll, whatever. The grey areas are created when the black and white ToS was muddled by loose enforcement. It's the Wild Wild West out there with the GMs being a random bullet or stray arrow.

Like you just said. It's a grey area when it's being left under the discretion of the GM, but if you did something against the ToS and he wanted to ban you for it because it's in the rules, he can and will, and you can do nothing to stop him. Argue all you want but the GM can enforce the rules which are black and white. Also, if you don't stop at a stop sign or driver over the speed limit the cops can give you a ticket or whatever punishment at their discretion. Why? Because it's in the law.
I don't see how your point proves this gray area of cheating. If you read the Terms of Agreement then you would know that any use of third party tools or software is a violation of their rules. And a definition of cheater is, " To violate rules deliberately". Knowing this, can you honestly say that someone who uses a windower is not a cheater? Maybe in your opinion they are otherwise, but if you look at the facts, then clearly they are cheaters. Consciencioulsy, maybe they are not. People and general concensus may create these grey areas so it feels like there are varying degrees of cheaters. But at the end of the day a cheat is a cheat is a cheat. It's the same with crime, if you commit a crime, to whatever degree, may it be shoplifting or murder, you will still be tagged a criminal at the end of the day.

[thephil]

not to sound mean... but u guys r a bunch of idiotsif u believe all of that is cheating. the only thing i see as cheating is the teles to NMs and altering the game so u get rare items in a chest u should get 500 gil in... bots r just annoying... if u want u should get it urself and for RMT SOMEONE ELSE DOES THE WORK how is that cheating... SE doesnt like it cause someone makes money out of it and not SE thats it the ONLY reason why SE doesnt like it and im not even gonna talk about windowers and the like cause its all just conveniance . the only form of cheating i would do is QLG (quick lvl gain) but that would be noticed instantly and i would be banned for life most likely. the reasons for it are as follows: 1) im tired of the whole PT aspect in lvling... there is more than 1 way to use a job and more than 1 or 2 ways to set it up i shouldn't forced to go as smn/whm when i know as smn/blm i can pull off my own SC and MB 2) im getting married in a few months if all goes well... so i wont be playing much if i continue to play and i dont want to log on for 2-3 hrs and worry about 15k-36k exp for 1 job there is no way i can get that much exp in 2-3 hrs... some others i wont get into cause some ppl feel they r stupid but i feel the whole it takes a week to get 1 lvl is dumb some ppl just dont have that much time and it takes them 1 yr to max out 1 job... maybe its just cause i used to playing console games but thats just outrageous if u ask me, and thats w/o lvling a sub job btw. maybe some of u have no lives (again not to be mean but maybe u dont have any hobbies other than this or whatever) but with work and trying to start a family it takes alot of time away from anything else.... if SE would allow just 1 cheat id say QLG and another reason being is i know some of those ppl that it took them that long to lvl 1 job quit after 1-2 yrs cause of the lack of cooperation from other players to help with all the lvl break items or whatever and i just feel that it would be a million times better cause i dont mind the pting for ZMs, PMs, ToAUs, or rank missions its just that lvling is ridiculous and some jobs cant solo past certain lvls.... and soloing is just as bad as pting since it can take 4-6 for some jobs to actually get a pt if they cant make one themselves...

[Hori]

not to sound mean... but u guys r a bunch of idiotsif u believe all of that is cheating. the only thing i see as cheating is the teles to NMs and altering the game so u get rare items in a chest u should get 500 gil in... bots r just annoying... if u want u should get it urself and for RMT SOMEONE ELSE DOES THE WORK how is that cheating... SE doesnt like it cause someone makes money out of it and not SE thats it the ONLY reason why SE doesnt like it and im not even gonna talk about windowers and the like cause its all just conveniance . the only form of cheating i would do is QLG (quick lvl gain) but that would be noticed instantly and i would be banned for life most likely. the reasons for it are as follows: 1) im tired of the whole PT aspect in lvling... there is more than 1 way to use a job and more than 1 or 2 ways to set it up i shouldn't forced to go as smn/whm when i know as smn/blm i can pull off my own SC and MB 2) im getting married in a few months if all goes well... so i wont be playing much if i continue to play and i dont want to log on for 2-3 hrs and worry about 15k-36k exp for 1 job there is no way i can get that much exp in 2-3 hrs... some others i wont get into cause some ppl feel they r stupid but i feel the whole it takes a week to get 1 lvl is dumb some ppl just dont have that much time and it takes them 1 yr to max out 1 job... maybe its just cause i used to playing console games but thats just outrageous if u ask me, and thats w/o lvling a sub job btw. maybe some of u have no lives (again not to be mean but maybe u dont have any hobbies other than this or whatever) but with work and trying to start a family it takes alot of time away from anything else.... if SE would allow just 1 cheat id say QLG and another reason being is i know some of those ppl that it took them that long to lvl 1 job quit after 1-2 yrs cause of the lack of cooperation from other players to help with all the lvl break items or whatever and i just feel that it would be a million times better cause i dont mind the pting for ZMs, PMs, ToAUs, or rank missions its just that lvling is ridiculous and some jobs cant solo past certain lvls.... and soloing is just as bad as pting since it can take 4-6 for some jobs to actually get a pt if they cant make one themselves...

[thephil]

-.-

[raidenn]

In a legal standpoint, shouting gimme 5 million gil is an invitation whether it was serious or not to conduct in RMT exchange.
To a person who doesnt speak too much english, its an invitation, to us who can understand the meaning behind it, its a couple of laughs.
Dont expect them to be lenient since SE wants to be shown to be very serious on stuff like that.

[thephil]

like i said SE only cares because other ppl make money out of RMTs... if i got that money from someone cause i helped them with something whether in game or out and it was there way to repay me SE doesnt care cause no REAL MONEY was invovled. SE sets it up that way so no one makes money but them... so it all falls down to MONEY its as simple as that.

[Murphie]

I wish I could read that post up there. Or maybe I don't...

[ValisOfValefor]

I wish I could read that post up there. Or maybe I don't...

My thoughts excactly.

(But seriously you don't)

[eticket109]

not to sound mean... but u guys r a bunch of idiotsif u believe all of that is cheating.

I didn't get any farther then that part right there.

[DakAttack]

I didn't get any farther then that part right there.

I tried my hardest, but all the words started to blur together and I had to look away before I went blind.

It's been ten minutes and I still can't see 100%.