Cheating and Stuff

[Spinnthrift]

Ok fanboi - I'm going to be nice now.. be hushed about things you haven't the faintest clue about. You can be dangerous with your "Oooh, I did my fishbotting for two days"... some of us, actually have done things which we regret knowing about.. because if we know about them... many more people are using them, nonstop.

Square has never been very good at porting it's games... FFVII was the first abhorrent port, FFVIII was an improvement, and FFXI has more holes in it than a sieve.

As the PS2 version does as well, but taking apart a PS2 and rewriting small files is a little harder to do than on the PC, but no impossible.

And no - it's not because of the fullscreen mode giving a better experience.. it's because at port conversions - SE fails, and knowing the right settings for how to adjust your clock allows for at minimum, super fast movement and 0 delay attacks, at it's most abused, item duping, 100% HQ synthing, 0 material cost synthing, item duping, etc...

Just from using the clock. Let alone using other outside modifications. Everything that can be done on the PC works on the PS2 as well, it's just harder to do. Poor coding. I know that's a bitter pill to swallow Kailea, but your hero's don't code brilliantly. They make good games, but easily abusable ones (tying most about everything to your internal clock is one of them).

[Feba]

Spinnthrift has a point, anyone with a windower and a properly functioning copy of windows can make their own speedhack, although it's fairly inconsistant, it's somewhat like making dynamite with baking powder and chives. Too easy, too common. I'm sure a lot of people here already know how it's done.

I also heard that Sony forced SE to make it fullscreen so they'd keep supporting PS2 and HDD, but obviously sony dropped that.

[Kailea]

Ok fanboi - I'm going to be nice now.. be hushed about things you haven't the faintest clue about. You can be dangerous with your "Oooh, I did my fishbotting for two days"... some of us, actually have done things which we regret knowing about.. because if we know about them... many more people are using them, nonstop.

Square has never been very good at porting it's games... FFVII was the first abhorrent port, FFVIII was an improvement, and FFXI has more holes in it than a sieve.

As the PS2 version does as well, but taking apart a PS2 and rewriting small files is a little harder to do than on the PC, but no impossible.

And no - it's not because of the fullscreen mode giving a better experience.. it's because at port conversions - SE fails, and knowing the right settings for how to adjust your clock allows for at minimum, super fast movement and 0 delay attacks, at it's most abused, item duping, 100% HQ synthing, 0 material cost synthing, item duping, etc...

Just from using the clock. Let alone using other outside modifications. Everything that can be done on the PC works on the PS2 as well, it's just harder to do. Poor coding. I know that's a bitter pill to swallow Kailea, but your hero's don't code brilliantly. They make good games, but easily abusable ones (tying most about everything to your internal clock is one of them).

you can post without insulting me you know, and like I have said before, I am not a fanboy -.- that word is so over used anyway, evey time someone does not agree with someone else, that word is thrown around.

and yeah FFXI being fullscreen only was done deliberatly to keep both PS2 and PC experiances the same, it was not due to poor programming

[Spinnthrift]

It was due to poor programming.

Square have always been poor at writing ports. If you'd played FFVII and realised that they basically wrote a PS Emulator for the PC version of it, you'd understand.

All of the basic hacks, mods, cheats etc you can do on the PC, you can do on the PS2 (assuming you have the knowledge of how to tinker with a PS2 - like people do with PC's). Down to the letter. Your average PC MMO won't have the same flagrant holes in it, because they'd be expecting the basic issues that people try and cheat with, and that would be easy to cheat on a system.

Straight port, poor programming...

Do I need to explain more, down to the nth degree of how specific things work and don't work - or are you going to accept that SE's programming for a port is shoddy.

Full screen mode is one thing - a program that crashes when it loses focus to a virus checker. Poor programming.

You want to keep defending them, or do I need to highlight the inadequacies of your hero's some more? Or will you accept that the design of FFXI for the PC was a shoddy port that had limited thought put into the functionality of it and it's use within an operating system?

And no - the term isn't bandied around for everyone.. it's saved for special people who clearly are.

[Matera]

you can post without insulting me you know, and like I have said before, I am not a fanboy -.- that word is so over used anyway, evey time someone does not agree with someone else, that word is thrown around.

and yeah FFXI being fullscreen only was done deliberatly to keep both PS2 and PC experiances the same, it was not due to poor programming

No, every time somebody disagrees with you, that word gets thrown around.

[Shopee]

FFVII was the first abhorrent port, FFVIII was an improvement,

This point caught my eye and made me curious. Having played both on PC, I don't see what is abhorrent or abhorrent improved about either game. They seem to play fine, and have for years.

I'm not challenging you, just on a practical level I'm not seeing much of what you're saying.

[ikkleste]

didn't one (or both) of them have no way to exit the game other than alt-f4/ctrl-alt-del? something i remember reading at the time. Would hardly be the toughest thing in the world to add an option on the menu screen to exit program, but even that was neglected. Not the end of the world sure, but not a 'nice' port either.

[soonk]

laziness i tell ya

[Spinnthrift]

This point caught my eye and made me curious. Having played both on PC, I don't see what is abhorrent or abhorrent improved about either game. They seem to play fine, and have for years.

I'm not challenging you, just on a practical level I'm not seeing much of what you're saying.

I don't know if you remember... but FFVII came on many disks... many more than the PS version.

First disk was the backbone to a PS emulator, and a software synthesiser (Yamaha something), as the music wouldn't play properly iirc.

You needed a monstrous PC at the time to play it in full screen mode, else it played at a godawful speed... and when it was released, while not top of the range, my PC at the time handled near everything else perfectly - because you were running a PSone emulator on your PC.

FFVIII was a better port, but still not good.

I forgot about those Ickle... so so true.

[Mhurron]

I don't know if you remember... but FFVII came on many disks... many more than the PS version.

First disk was the backbone to a PS emulator, and a software synthesiser (Yamaha something), as the music wouldn't play properly iirc.

You needed a monstrous PC at the time to play it in full screen mode, else it played at a godawful speed... and when it was released, while not top of the range, my PC at the time handled near everything else perfectly - because you were running a PSone emulator on your PC.

FFVIII was a better port, but still not good.

I forgot about those Ickle... so so true.

FF8 was ported in exactly the same manner. They both had one extra disk for the Windows specific stuff. That software synth was the standard way of playing MIDI before Creative Labs became dominant. It was supported on more hardware then anything else.

Both had a way to exit the game

[Spinnthrift]

Mhurron is right - they did have an exit, but it was clunky/janky at best.

Square never has gotten along with Windows well to be fair. It makes amazing games, but they've never settled well within the PC OS's.

Console's - different kettle of fish entirely.

[Kailea]

yeah I remember FFVII and FFVIII they where ported pretty bady -.-

and yeah FFXI for PC was just basicly a port from PS2, but really, the whole point of multi system release, was their "same experiance" idea, and is why there really is not alot of grpahic options for PC version

I still dont understand why you sit here, and bitch and moan and complain about things that are normal for other games, every game will have some glitches and holes in programing, why single FFXI out of it all. I am not a fanboy of SE, I just find all this pointless bitching to be anoying. This thread started out as a simple "cheating" thread, and some of you ahve turned it into a "lets bitch about SE" thread

[sevenpointflaw]

lol it always happens with this topic, Really the thread was only started for the benifit of one other person who I think only asked 'cause they were interested in my perspective (which I claimed was rather off).

Its kind of amusing considering every is saying what is cheating and what isn't, or its all a tos violation so its all cheating.

As the OP, let me clarify for subsequent posts - the conversation was meant to be a discussion on what people think draws the line of -cheating- (which -I- am defining as gaining an unfair advantage - nothing more). Has nothing to do whether or not something is a contract breach (ToS violation).

Anyhow. I done chuckling.

[Kailea]

lol it always happens with this topic, Really the thread was only started for the benifit of one other person who I think only asked 'cause they were interested in my perspective (which I claimed was rather off).

Its kind of amusing considering every is saying what is cheating and what isn't, or its all a tos violation so its all cheating.

As the OP, let me clarify for subsequent posts - the conversation was meant to be a discussion on what people think draws the line of -cheating- (which -I- am defining as gaining an unfair advantage - nothing more). Has nothing to do whether or not something is a contract breach (ToS violation).

Anyhow. I done chuckling.

I agree with ya here, as long as you are not gaining an unfair advantage, I dont see it as cheating, honestly that is how I saw fishbotting when I tried it way back then, because I never left the PC, I just started it kicked back and had a soda while watching TV. The only thing I really took out of fishing at the time for me, was not havieng to rehit my macro ^.^ but like I said, only did it for 2 days, then saw what trouble it was couseing, and stopped

[Linra]

I agree with ya here, as long as you are not gaining an unfair advantage, I dont see it as cheating, honestly that is how I saw fishbotting when I tried it way back then, because I never left the PC, I just started it kicked back and had a soda while watching TV. The only thing I really took out of fishing at the time for me, was not havieng to rehit my macro ^.^ but like I said, only did it for 2 days, then saw what trouble it was couseing, and stopped

I'm sorry this is extremely off-topic. But Kailea your Avatar is really really cute! Did you make it yourself or did you find it somewhere, and if so where? I'd love to have one like that for me and my bf. ^^