[darkside_v2]

sorry to have to bug you guys but i was wandering if the Windower was a ok program to have. the windower alows you to play FFXI in a window mode but becosue its a 3rd party program i was wandering if i can get band from using it. i was just wandering becouse this wound be a good thing for me becouse i get kicked out of full screen mode alot

[Tirrock]

Yes, you can get banned for using it. And...this topic will likely be deleted or closed soon, I think...

[Tatha-Kitten]

you can be, and for that reason, we can't provide a link to it here. you'd have to find it on your own. if you haven't already ofcourse.

it is a known fact that a vast majority of the players use it.

[Kilandor]

Windower used to be fine IMO.....But now It can be easily used for to many non-legitimate purposes. <sigh>

[Taskmage]

It's ok to talk about it in this context. Just don't go posting links.

Yes, it's a 3rd party program and you can get banned for using it, but it's assumed that many people do anyway. As I understand it, it can't be detected on your system remotely, so to get caught you have to pretty much admit to using it.

[Tirrock]

I'm personally not anti-windower...but some of the stuff it's capable of is just bad. I've seen summoner bot scripts for it. (Again...of all things to bot, why summoning magic skill? That's just stupid...)

[Jei]

summoning skill is one painful skill to train. It could take you couple hours a day doing nothing but summonning elementals to get it up to date. Now... a script that can do all these works for you... run straight from windower itself and totally harm free. What do you think?

[Taskmage]

Chris Rock on OJ Simpson: I'm not saying he shoulda killed her, but I understand.

For boring, tedious, skill-less activities like skilling summoning magic, I understand perfectly why someone would want to bot.

[Tirrock]

I still treat it like a bot. Plus summoning magic skill isn't that important at this time. I got to cap from random summoning while farming/exping/events. I'm duoing with a SMN while typing this, and our damage is very similar, despite me being 50 levels higher in summoning magic skill. (I have a slight edge, but only because of AF2 body's +3% crit hit rate, I believe.)

[Taskmage]

Bot = automated gameplaying. It's a bot, imo. I don't support any kind of botting, but for something mindless and repetetive like that I'm sure it would be very tempting. I hate not having blue skills, but I'm not willing to sit and cure myself 1000 times to get my healing magic capped. Not that my healing skill makes the slightest difference, but that 16 points I have until cap makes my brain itch every time I look at it.

Moving to general discussion, btw. This has nothing to do with dats that I can see.

[Feba]

Yes, you can get banned for using it. However, you likely won't. In the history of archbell's windower, i've heard three or four 'omg i got banned' stories, and I don't even beleive some of them.

Most likely, even if a [GM] does catch you, they'll just tell you to delete it and suspend you for 72 hours. I mean, I once saw someone '/sh I Use Windower!', nothing happened to them. As long as you don't mention anything, you're good.

Also, the JP IME plugin is incredibly easy to trace, if you use that.


About the script: This is using Windower Macros for a malicious purpose. They can be used for good, as hundreds of high level mages can attest to.

There's actually a great controversy on the Windower boards about the script, as some beleive it treads too far over the line between 'Enhancing the Game' and 'Fucking Cheaters!'.


In general, the windower makers, and users of their forums, do not support bots or hacks. They really walk the line on botting sometimes, like a script to automatically boost 12 times then Chi-Blast was removed, but a program which automatically shouts for you every so often stayed.

They might not have the same morals as one of us, but they do have morals, and would never allow anything truely harmful to be spread through their site.

[Eohmer]

>.<

[Liquidedust]

Originally Posted by Taskmage

Bot = automated gameplaying. It's a bot, imo. I don't support any kind of botting, but for something mindless and repetetive like that I'm sure it would be very tempting. I hate not having blue skills, but I'm not willing to sit and cure myself 1000 times to get my healing magic capped. Not that my healing skill makes the slightest difference, but that 16 points I have until cap makes my brain itch every time I look at it.

Moving to general discussion, btw. This has nothing to do with dats that I can see.

Think about this for a second:

I can make progammable macros with basically unlimited lines through a windower that creates a looping SMN skillup macro.
<< this is considered to beagainst the rules. >>

I can make program my Logitech® G15 Gaming Keyboard to exactly the same and get a looping SMN skillup macro.
<< this is considered to be within the rules and this keyboard is even supported by S-E as a good gaming accessory. >>

So lets see it is not what we do that is considered against the rules, more like how we do it (somehow this feels very backwards).

Most of the so-called simple gaming bots and extended macros can be done by the G15 as well as the windower, the G15 is considered A-OK even by S-E themselves. Now when windower implements the same functionality it all of a sudden is against the rules just seems wierd.

<<<>>>
Disclaimer: This isn't about the windowed play or other stuff in windower that is debated, just about the script/macro functionality both of these items provide that is basically identical.
<<<>>>

[Feba]

I don't know if SE approves of using the G15 to bot... It's probably just part of their business agreement with logitech. You know you can get a trail version of FFXI with certain logitech products? Ever notice how pretty much EVERY computer accessory SE hands out is from logitech?


The thing that leaves me wondering is, why hasn't SE released any OFFICIAL plugins for teh G-15?




And btw, there is a large difference between windower macros and G15 macros...Windower macros go directly to the console, like regular macros. G15 acts like someone is typing them in extremely fast.


Also, Windower does NOT have an official 'loop' function, and even has safeguards against looping. I beleive IBHalliwel exploited their "Alias" function to make it work.

[Liquidedust]

Originally Posted by Feba

I don't know if SE approves of using the G15 to bot... It's probably just part of their business agreement with logitech. You know you can get a trail version of FFXI with certain logitech products? Ever notice how pretty much EVERY computer accessory SE hands out is from logitech?


The thing that leaves me wondering is, why hasn't SE released any OFFICIAL plugins for teh G-15?




And btw, there is a large difference between windower macros and G15 macros...Windower macros go directly to the console, like regular macros. G15 acts like someone is typing them in extremely fast.


Also, Windower does NOT have an official 'loop' function, and even has safeguards against looping. I beleive IBHalliwel exploited their "Alias" function to make it work.

While the implementation is diffrent, the end-result of both is basically the same (well except that the G-15 is more clunky and awkward to use and no person that has both windower and G-15 would ever choose to use the functionality in the G-15).

The point is still that a piece of hardware with, relative to POL, third-party software is considered ok. Yet the ToS itself does not differenciate between third-party software at all, unless specified both should really be agaist the rules or both should be considered ok.

And yeah he used an alias to execute files in a clever way which created a loop, and he also managed to create a way to break the loop. And for those who is upset about this, this doesn't even work as of this moment but yet the G-15 functionality still works.