The Third Party [A Discussion]

[Neomage]

Damn, these things are overpowered. I just got the flee and pos hack, and... well... I can't use them, as I don't even have Windower, which it requires to run, but by opening them up on my PC w/o FFXI, it gives me options such as running at 5x Flee speed, warping to a PC, NPC, or selected position, or a pre-determined monster(It gives a list of 10 mobs, including Kings, Sim, Serket, KA... and for some weird reason, Magic Sludge[The BLM AF6 NM for those who don't know])

[Omniblast]

Sadly there is a way to run a poor man's flee tool, without downloading anything else by windower. It is very unstable and I won't post how it's done (it can either, slow you down extremely or speed you up extremely).

[Murphie]

That's the thing. I prefer my previous state of relative blissful unawareness. I couldn't tell you the name of a single alleged botter, gilseller, bought account, scammer, etc. on Remora. I have no idea what LS did what to whom, or who had sex with whose moogle. If it's not someone I have personal experience with, I tend towards opinionlessness.

I assume at some point I've teleported some sort of hooligan or another, maybe partied with them, whatever. Overall, I'm a lot less stressed and angsty when I just deal with the immediate. Granted, I haven't gotten to a point where I'd be competing against anyone over anything serious. And maybe I'm not the Shining Upright Citizen I could be or something, but... meh.

Someone after my own heart. Not literally, of course. But in regards to gaming at least. Seriously, I can't spend my life worrying about this stuff. I'm playing this game to relax and have fun, and quite honestly it's just easier not to inform myself about this stuff because in the long run in affects me less.

[Aksannyi]

Wow, I had no idea all of this could happen. I thought there was little more than fish, NM claim, and warp bots. That's really gay how people think it's more "fun" to cheat. If I were to ever catch anyone I knew doing that, I'd /slap the shit out of them. (In RL ^^) That really sucks.

[Haggai]

Yeah, the main reason I don't use them full time is because I like ffxi. If I ever decide to quit though, i'll probably abuse the hell out of them until i'm banned.

lol
----------------

This stuff is crazy, I had no idea how far it went.

I'm against MPK, but if I ever caught myself cheating like that, I'd have to MPK myself.

I subscribe to the same state of 'relative blissful unawareness' that Ellipses does. I don't worry about stuff unless someone ticks me off. Then I just /blist them and move on.

[Taodyn]

An interesting read, to say the last. Kind of scary, really.

I've been wondering recently: if you write a program to use, is it still considered third person?

While I would not be able to even begin programming anything like this, the term "third party software" suggests software made by neither SE (First party) or you (second party).

Theoretically (and don't test this unless you want to lose your account), a program you wrote yourself could not fall under "third party software."

[Omniblast]

An interesting read, to say the last. Kind of scary, really.

I've been wondering recently: if you write a program to use, is it still considered third person?

While I would not be able to even begin programming anything like this, the term "third party software" suggests software made by neither SE (First party) or you (second party).

Theoretically (and don't test this unless you want to lose your account), a program you wrote yourself could not fall under "third party software."

Sorry to burst your bubble, but "Third party" means 3rd party to Square Enix, not to you. I doubt they care that you wrote it or not. It is still considered 3rd party regardless.

[Bishop]

Not sure if anyone realizes this, but all these screenshots are self incriminating. Not only that, the amount of proof that he has on himself only reflects on how often he uses these programs. You can claim they are for "educational" purposes, but then again, so can the last gilseller that claimed deggi before me. If you truely don't support using programs like this, then why are you using it? It's one thing to research about it, and another thing to flaunt it in the fashion you have done. Check out his screenshot post on the other thread. Was that for educational purposes as well?

[Taodyn]

Omniblast:

And how might you logically assume that?

The ToS is a contract between two parties, them (first) and you (second).

I realize they would still ban you for using unsupported software that affects gameplay, but by definition it is not "third party" as you are the second party.

There is no such thing as "3rd party to Square Enix". It is not possible for a person to be both the second and third party in an agreement.

This is not a loophole for using illicit software, but is perhaps poor terminology on their part.

[Omniblast]

Taodyn:

By contracting with SE you are obligated to follow their rules and regulations, you are therefore not suppose to create software that undermines, reverse engineer, de-encrypt their packets etc. Thusly in doing so, you voilate the agreement with them and you can be prosecuted that way.

I'm sure if you try to play off that...

GM>> You are using 3rd party software to undermine ffxi.
Player>> No I'm not, I wrote it myself.
GM>> thank you for admitting that

*Feeds player to Jimmy*

*Ban player*

Anyways, you'd never get away with it either way. If you admit that you wrote it, your screwed, if you admit that you didn't write it, your screwed. Catch 22.

[ikkleste]

Omniblast:

And how might you logically assume that?

The ToS is a contract between two parties, them (first) and you (second).

I realize they would still ban you for using unsupported software that affects gameplay, but by definition it is not "third party" as you are the second party.

There is no such thing as "3rd party to Square Enix". It is not possible for a person to be both the second and third party in an agreement.

This is not a loophole for using illicit software, but is perhaps poor terminology on their part.

yeah, i'd like to see a certain GM dealing with that one,

[GM]Dave: well technically, yes you have a point, you aren't using a 3rd party program...
[GM]Dave: so technically i can't touch you...

Tiamat hits player for 13,789 points of damage
player is defeated

[GM}Dave: Technially, she can though...

[Taodyn]

Of course this is still a violation of the ToS in terms of creating offending software, but my original question was not of the legality or morality of it, but rather the actual definition of third party.

You are right, though, This might make a nice blog entry.

[Omniblast]

Please take a look at this link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_party

In case you can't view it at work.

[code]
In video games:

• First-party developer, part of a company that actually manufactures a video game console
• Second-party developer, tied to and makes games specifically for one console manufacturer
• Third-party developer, not directly tied to the primary product the consumer is using

[/code]
Can I have a cookie now?

EDIT: Also, Jimmy is what we call Jormungand on Remora. Well my LS anyways.

[Haggai]

Tiamat hits player for 13,789 points of damage
player is defeated

[GM]Dave likes Jorgy. lol

[Taodyn]

Third Party - A person who is not a party to a contract but may become involved in an indirect way or be affected by it

I do not remember ever saying Third Party Developer.

By definition, a third party is one that is not part of either of the two original parties involved in a contract. As a player is one of the parties, they cannot be deemed third parties.

Taodyn synthesized a cookie +1.