new party options

ikkleste · 05-23-2006, 02:35 AM

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/dra...tml#post577577

was reading this and some people have touched on some things i've been thinking about since the new expansion has been explored.

the conventional party setup is tank, healer, refresher/support, ddx3

most people won'r consider much outside of this, no tank - no party, no healer - no party, etc.

However the options are opening up with a lot of the stuff we have found in the new expansion. Blu can get auto refresh, pld can get auto refresh, smn can get auto refresh, they can all add sanction refresh. this eliminates the need for a dedecated refresher in such an important capacity. a party could be formed without a rdm or brd (or cor i guess now) as so many people insist.

or in a party with a refresher a pld with auto, sanction, and casted refresh becomes a healing machine. Could this mean that a party without a whm healer becomes more viable over more levels? with the refresher just needing to backup heal for the pld?
add in the auto regen as well remember.
drg/mage can heal as never before thanks to extra refreshy goodness (maybe not main heal i don't know?)

i guess it just seems to me there are many more options available (particularly post 50ish when people get to Aht Urgan) thanks to sanction bonuses, the new jobs, tweeks to the jobs we've seen, and tweeks we are still expecting.

Are people taking up these new options? Have you been in some fresh unconvetional parties in the last few weeks? how have they worked? or are people stilll going for the old standard setups (or a new standard?) and just using the new stuff to make them more efficient?

What are your experiences and opinions on this?

Jei · 05-23-2006, 02:41 AM

There definitely are a lot more choices out there right now. War burns, manaburns, ninja burns, etc all of these are the more popular out-side-the-box groups you probably know about. Some poeple hate these set ups however. I'm sure there are a lot more set ups out there that will work. Some may work even better than conventional set up.

Fayttt · 05-23-2006, 03:13 AM

I honestly wish they would keep refresh kinda native to RDMs <.<

Suteru · 05-23-2006, 03:26 AM

Yeah, since that's really the only thing we get invited for, and if we lose that, we basically never get invited again ;/

Sethe · 05-23-2006, 03:59 AM

Yeah, because your debuffs aren't useful at all. Ever.

Emo RDMs, whatever next.

Kirsteena · 05-23-2006, 04:02 AM

emo blm probably...

Jei · 05-23-2006, 04:10 AM

We'll be invited for DD no worry. Get your /nin up now ^^

Kirsteena · 05-23-2006, 05:14 AM

Joyeuse and dagger off hand - we can give the mob tp with the best of them!

Sethe · 05-23-2006, 05:16 AM

Why not just be a Ninja with a kraken club? eh? eh?

/emo

Feba · 05-23-2006, 05:21 AM

Yeah, my BLM only gets invited because of D2...

And yeah, this expansion, with it's unique mob types, and encouragement to get out and fight, even in small groups...

There's a lot of new possibilities out there.

Kirsteena · 05-23-2006, 05:23 AM

Still stuck camping the AH Sethe?

But yeah, I'll offhand a kraken and outdamage you all with my enspell spam!

Sethe · 05-23-2006, 05:30 AM

Still camping AH indeed... Bought 9 this morning when I logged on and did 5 synths, got me 0.1 >.<

Just slow skill-ups and few materials... oh well 0.6 to go!

ikkleste · 05-23-2006, 05:38 AM

well as a RDM in training it is a bit of an issue for me if we loose the monopoly over refresh (especially seen as though i've just got the damn spell ^^), i've heard the days prerefresh were pretty hellish for RDM. If we aren't desired for that we're back to debuffing, and while debuffing is great (in fact it's the part of the job i really love) i'm not sure it'll be enough to secure our place in a party. However that said 5mp/ tick is still way better than 2mp/tick and for that i can see our invite continuing alone. Especially if people don't get too caught u in the traps we all see of needing X or Y job. If people, for instance accept that a RDM with 4mp/tick and a pld with 5 mp/tick can act as main healer/tank and debuffer between them (on only two jobs) then our invites won't suffer too much, more refresh is good even when refresh is already present.

anyway the RDM issue aside (lets not turn this into a RDM cryiing party becuase our invite rate is down to only one ever 10mins ^^). Is this a step twards being able to take any six jobs in a party? Maybe not all the way there obviously but a first rate healer and a refresher (+extra refreshy goodness) could mean a sub-perfect tank could be acceptable. This will mean less wait time for everyone, more space in the overcrowded DD spots.

Will people start to compromise? Too many times i've seen people turn their nose up at parties because it varies from the ideal setup, and they aren't willing to waste their time/food/ammo on a party which might have to make do with less than 100% efficiency or change their prey from crabs (gasp!). Which leads to people warming jeuno pavements with bored bumcheeks LFG, instead of getting some exp, even if not what they would get in WHM/support/tank/BLM/DD/DD, it could still be a decent amount if given a try.

A further question i have...

What makes the high level melee-burn parties work? How are they configured? They keep up long chains of Tough prey right, and use a roving camp to avoid running out of prey? How do they avoid down time? Is there a reason why this couldn't work at lower levels? Is it because of lack of 'camps' (as in acceptable roving zones), or does it take more to make it work?

Suteru · 05-23-2006, 05:52 AM

Well, with a NIN a rdm job could be covered. Trust me, 99% of parties could care less whether we debuff or not

Though cast the ones most usefull, gravity, dia, para, slow, and blind whenever i'm reaching for skillups

Sethe · 05-23-2006, 05:56 AM

If you just told me you don't debuff unless you are trying to cap your enfeebling magic.... I have zero respect for you.

Seriously... You better hope Kirsteena doesn't read that post or you are a dead man walking!

05-23-2006, 02:35 AM	#1
ikkleste Junior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: UK Posts: 255 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 Posts	new party options http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/dra...tml#post577577 was reading this and some people have touched on some things i've been thinking about since the new expansion has been explored. the conventional party setup is tank, healer, refresher/support, ddx3 most people won'r consider much outside of this, no tank - no party, no healer - no party, etc. However the options are opening up with a lot of the stuff we have found in the new expansion. Blu can get auto refresh, pld can get auto refresh, smn can get auto refresh, they can all add sanction refresh. this eliminates the need for a dedecated refresher in such an important capacity. a party could be formed without a rdm or brd (or cor i guess now) as so many people insist. or in a party with a refresher a pld with auto, sanction, and casted refresh becomes a healing machine. Could this mean that a party without a whm healer becomes more viable over more levels? with the refresher just needing to backup heal for the pld? add in the auto regen as well remember. drg/mage can heal as never before thanks to extra refreshy goodness (maybe not main heal i don't know?) i guess it just seems to me there are many more options available (particularly post 50ish when people get to Aht Urgan) thanks to sanction bonuses, the new jobs, tweeks to the jobs we've seen, and tweeks we are still expecting. Are people taking up these new options? Have you been in some fresh unconvetional parties in the last few weeks? how have they worked? or are people stilll going for the old standard setups (or a new standard?) and just using the new stuff to make them more efficient? What are your experiences and opinions on this?

05-23-2006, 02:41 AM	#2
Jei J...atatouille Super Moderator Wings of Honor Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 8,329 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 5 Thanked 138x in 108 Posts My Mood:	Re: new party options There definitely are a lot more choices out there right now. War burns, manaburns, ninja burns, etc all of these are the more popular out-side-the-box groups you probably know about. Some poeple hate these set ups however. I'm sure there are a lot more set ups out there that will work. Some may work even better than conventional set up. __________________ There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence transform a yellow spot into the sun. - Pablo Picasso

05-23-2006, 03:13 AM	#3
Fayttt Junior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Keene New Hampshire USA Posts: 194 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 Posts	Re: new party options I honestly wish they would keep refresh kinda native to RDMs <.< __________________ *~~Fayttt of Diabolos* *PM8-4: (Aka Finished): Dawn, ZM17 (Aka Finished): Awakening, Windurst 8-1: Vain* *RDM66/SMN25* **~~Cloudy~~**

05-23-2006, 03:26 AM	#4
Suteru Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 58 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: new party options Yeah, since that's really the only thing we get invited for, and if we lose that, we basically never get invited again ;/

05-23-2006, 03:59 AM	#5
Sethe Junior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 170 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0x in 0 Posts My Mood:	Re: new party options Yeah, because your debuffs aren't useful at all. Ever. Emo RDMs, whatever next.

05-23-2006, 04:10 AM	#7
Jei J...atatouille Super Moderator Wings of Honor Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 8,329 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 5 Thanked 138x in 108 Posts My Mood:	Re: new party options We'll be invited for DD no worry. Get your /nin up now ^^ __________________ There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence transform a yellow spot into the sun. - Pablo Picasso

05-23-2006, 05:16 AM	#9
Sethe Junior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 170 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0x in 0 Posts My Mood:	Re: new party options Why not just be a Ninja with a kraken club? eh? eh? /emo

05-23-2006, 05:21 AM	#10
Feba sweet broken hearted machine Starlight Medal Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Facility A220S-0024, Room 211 Posts: 8,558 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 2,007 Thanked 2,232x in 1,514 Posts	Re: new party options Yeah, my BLM only gets invited because of D2... And yeah, this expansion, with it's unique mob types, and encouragement to get out and fight, even in small groups... There's a lot of new possibilities out there.

05-23-2006, 05:30 AM	#12
Sethe Junior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 170 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0x in 0 Posts My Mood:	Re: new party options Still camping AH indeed... Bought 9 this morning when I logged on and did 5 synths, got me 0.1 >.< Just slow skill-ups and few materials... oh well 0.6 to go!

05-23-2006, 05:38 AM	#13
ikkleste Junior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: UK Posts: 255 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 Posts	Re: new party options well as a RDM in training it is a bit of an issue for me if we loose the monopoly over refresh (especially seen as though i've just got the damn spell ^^), i've heard the days prerefresh were pretty hellish for RDM. If we aren't desired for that we're back to debuffing, and while debuffing is great (in fact it's the part of the job i really love) i'm not sure it'll be enough to secure our place in a party. However that said 5mp/ tick is still way better than 2mp/tick and for that i can see our invite continuing alone. Especially if people don't get too caught u in the traps we all see of needing X or Y job. If people, for instance accept that a RDM with 4mp/tick and a pld with 5 mp/tick can act as main healer/tank and debuffer between them (on only two jobs) then our invites won't suffer too much, more refresh is good even when refresh is already present. anyway the RDM issue aside (lets not turn this into a RDM cryiing party becuase our invite rate is down to only one ever 10mins ^^). Is this a step twards being able to take any six jobs in a party? Maybe not all the way there obviously but a first rate healer and a refresher (+extra refreshy goodness) could mean a sub-perfect tank could be acceptable. This will mean less wait time for everyone, more space in the overcrowded DD spots. Will people start to compromise? Too many times i've seen people turn their nose up at parties because it varies from the ideal setup, and they aren't willing to waste their time/food/ammo on a party which might have to make do with less than 100% efficiency or change their prey from crabs (gasp!). Which leads to people warming jeuno pavements with bored bumcheeks LFG, instead of getting some exp, even if not what they would get in WHM/support/tank/BLM/DD/DD, it could still be a decent amount if given a try. A further question i have... What makes the high level melee-burn parties work? How are they configured? They keep up long chains of Tough prey right, and use a roving camp to avoid running out of prey? How do they avoid down time? Is there a reason why this couldn't work at lower levels? Is it because of lack of 'camps' (as in acceptable roving zones), or does it take more to make it work?

05-23-2006, 05:52 AM	#14
Suteru Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 58 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: new party options Well, with a NIN a rdm job could be covered. Trust me, 99% of parties could care less whether we debuff or not Though cast the ones most usefull, gravity, dia, para, slow, and blind whenever i'm reaching for skillups

05-23-2006, 05:56 AM	#15
Sethe Junior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 170 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0x in 0 Posts My Mood:	Re: new party options If you just told me you don't debuff unless you are trying to cap your enfeebling magic.... I have zero respect for you. Seriously... You better hope Kirsteena doesn't read that post or you are a dead man walking!

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