[Darkhound]

Does anyone know if there are any rumors of new avatars being added to the game once the new expansion comes out? I woud like to see phoenix on the game!

[Aeni]

Originally Posted by Darkhound

Does anyone know if there are any rumors of new avatars being added to the game once the new expansion comes out? I woud like to see phoenix on the game!

Not yet so far. By tomorrow we should know as much as possible once that issue of Famitsu hits newstands in Japan (They're a day ahead of us)

[WishMaster3K]

Guaranteed

Phoenix and Bahamut

If you want to know why, then prepare to have the entire game ruined. Hint: CoP and RoZ are connected in ways I didn't think possible.

[Aeni]

Originally Posted by WishMaster3K

Guaranteed

Phoenix and Bahamut

If you want to know why, then prepare to have the entire game ruined. Hint: CoP and RoZ are connected in ways I didn't think possible.

Still ... it's not confirmed and with SE working on what seems to be more than 2 new job classes (Might be as many as 3 or 4) then there's just way more priorities for them than to keep adding avatars into games and not being able to make them more unique than the other avatars and also not making those older avatars completely useless.

[WishMaster3K]

Aeni, I'm sure that someone of your obvious experience knows what I'm referring to.

I'll try to get hard evidence to prove it, but there were animations for the ladder I mentioned found in the game, and more than just those found during a fight with said avatar. But it's ok for you to reserve judgement, I can't blame you. Wait till I can prove it!

[Darkhound]

I really got very surprised when I saw your "spoiler"..... people said at 1st that Diabolos was never going to be a sumonable avatar because it was evil, and because it was an essential part of the CoP story, and I personally had given up hop, and we recently got the surprise. But it took way too long for them to add another avatar. What makes you state that those avatars will be added? I think one of them would be impossible to fit the screen...... Please develop Wishmaster

[WishMaster3K]

Baaaah, a request! I cannot deny a request!!!

Only Since Darkhound asked >.>

Ok, pardon me if I get lost here.

Interstingly, everything in the Vana'diel world is closely tied to mythology in one way or another. The four Gods in Sky are very comparable to the Chinese Gods (I think it's chinese. . . But I do remember the same four animals being used in many mythological references, such as in the 2nd season of Digimon): In that there was a Turtle God, a Tiger God, a Dragon God and a Bird God. In FFXI these characters are (i believe the actual names used in the actual mythology) Genbu, Byakko, Seiryu and Suzaku.

Even the pops such as Zipcana and Ulli have some reference in actual mythology. Go to Wikipedia and look up Ose if you want ^^. "A leapord that will turn into a man." That has nothing to do with anything, really, but just a small example of how far SE researched mythology to make a truly immersive game that is not only fun to play, but to read into.

Another thing SE did was they used the 5 Dragon Kings from multiple mythologies. Click on the individual spoilers if you want, they're more or less only for reference and have nothing to do with the Avatars, just something to get a scope of how deep this game is.

Fafnir

In Norse mythology, Fafnir was a son of the dwarf king Hreidmar and brother of Regin and Otr. In the Volsunga saga, Fafnir was a dwarf gifted with a powerful arm and fearless soul. He wore the Aegis helmet and guarded his father's house of glittering gold and flashing gems. He was the strongest and most aggressive of the three brothers.

After Otr was killed by Loki, Hreidmar received the cursed gold of Andvari's as repayment for the loss of his son. Fafnir and Regin then killed their father to get the gold, but Fafnir decided he wanted it all, turning into a dragon (symbol of greed). Regin then sent his foster-son, Sigurd, to kill the dragon. Sigurd succeeded, but then killed Regin too, upon learning that he had planned to kill him once he had recovered the gold.

Jormungand

According to the Prose Edda Odin took the three children, Fenrisulfr, Hel and Jörmungandr. He tossed Jörmungandr into the great ocean that encircles Midgard. The serpent grew so big that he was able to surround the Earth and grasp his own tail, and as a result he earned the alternate name of the Midgard Serpent or World Serpent. Jörmungandr's arch enemy is the god Thor.

Nidhogg

According to the Gylfaginning part of Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda, Níðhöggr is a being which gnaws one of the three roots of Yggdrasill. This root is placed over Niflheimr and Níðhöggr gnaws it from beneath. The same source also says that "[t]he squirrel called Ratatöskr runs up and down the length of the Ash, bearing envious words between the eagle and Nídhöggr" (Brodeur's translation).

Snorri does not specify what kind of being Níðhöggr is. All he knew about him seems to come from two of the Eddic poems; Grímnismál and Völuspá.

Vrtra

n Hinduism, Vritra (Sanskrit वृत्र Vṛtra, "the enveloper") was a serpent or dragon, the personification of drought and enemy of Indra. He has three heads.

According to the Rig Veda, Vritra stole all the water in the world until killed by Indra, who destroyed all ninety-nine fortresses of Vritra.

In a later version of the myth, Vritra was created by Tvashtri to get revenge for Indra's murder of his son, Trisiras. Vritra won the battle and swallowed Indra, but the other gods forced him to vomit Indra out. The battle continued and Indra fled. Vishnu and the rishis brokered a truce, and Indra swore he would not attack Vritra with anything made of metal, wood or stone, nor anything that was dry or wet, or during the day or the night. Indra used the foam from the waves of the ocean to kill him at twilight.

However, in some places Hindu scriptures also recognize Vritra as a bhakta of Vishnu, and a brahmin. He was slain only due to his failure to live piously and without aggression.

In one place in the Rig-Veda (6,61,7) Sarasvati is credited with killing Vritra, who is also known as Ahi ("snake").

Tiamat

Tiamat is a primeval monster/goddess in Babylonian and Sumerian mythology, and a central figure in the Enûma Elish creation epic. John C. L. Gibson, in the Ugaritic glossary of Canaanite Myths and Legends, notes that "tehom" appears in the Ugaritic texts, c. 1400–1200 BCE, simply meaning the "sea". Such a depersonalized Tiamat (the -at ending makes her feminine) is "The Deep" (Hebrew tehom), present at the beginning of the book of Genesis.

Apsu (or Abzu) fathered upon Tiamat the Elder gods Lahmu and Lahamu. Lahmu and Lahamu, in turn, were the parents of the heavens (Anshar) and the earth (Kishar), and Anshar and Kishar the parents of Anu and Ea. Tiamat was the "shining" goddess of salt water who roared and smote in the chaos of original creation. She and Apsu filled the cosmic abyss with the primeval waters. She is "Ummu-Hubur who formed all things".

The god Enki (later Ea), believing correctly that Apsu was planning to murder the younger gods, slew him. This angered Tiamat, whereupon she fashioned monsters to battle the gods. These were her own offspring: giant sea serpents, storm demons, fish-men, scorpion-men and many others. Tiamat possessed the Tablets of Destiny, and in the primordial battle she gave them to Kingu, the god she had chosen as her lover and the leader of her host. But Anu (replaced by Marduk, the son of Ea, in the late version that has survived) overcame Kingu and then her, armed with the winds, a net, a club, and an invincible spear.

And the lord stood upon Tiamat's hinder parts,
And with his merciless club he smashed her skull.
He cut through the channels of her blood,
And he made the North wind bear it away into secret places.

Slicing Tiamat in half, he made from the two halves heaven and earth. He took from Kingu the Tablets of Destiny, with the approval of the elder gods.

Ok, moving on.

The basic premise of the story is this: the creator Altanna and the Destroyer Promathia are the ultimate beings. Altanna even went so far as to create what we know as the Avatars to be Gods as well. So understand that the Avatars have deep connections to the Gods.

Bigger than the Zilart is the stopping of Promathia, and it was the goal of the Avatars to do this. HOWEVER, the Zilart screwed up the balance of everything with their innane approach to world domination.

Interestingly, this ties into the Shadow Lord even, because the Shadow Lord was merely a tool to be used to help. He was given powers, but upon being twisted, decided to use those powers for evil. I'm losing focus here btw since it's been a while from whence I went over the FFXI story XD, so please, bear with me, and if anyone has input, I'll edit this.

I do recall this tho, Dynamis is an alternate dimension intended for the inhabitants of Vana'diel to flee to. Since Promathia is one of the Gods of the Gods, he cannot be destroyed, so the purpose of Dynamis was to send all of Vana'diel's inhabitants to there and to leave Promathia trapped in our current world, while that dimension gets destroyed.

I'm not sure where Emptiness comes from, or the relation to the story, but if I recal correctly, Diabolos has no power in Emptiness, and that little kid with the pale skin is the source of Emptiness.

Another thing to consider is that Bahumut is the main deal, but I'll get onto that later.

Phoenix- Also a part of the story. BUT, Phoenix's very nature is to never be killed through the uncanny powers of Restoration. They have to keep Phoenix's powers restrained because if she is around when they "Kill" Promathia. . .

I was also told (not confirmed myself) that Phoenix actually is resting in the Den of Rancor, and on top of her ashes is a forgery owned by Gilgamesh. In addition, the sword that was forged there is the sword that the Samurai who is also a part of the CoP story line uses.

I'll ask my friend to clarify any of this, but if I didnt put down that what I wrote was speculation, you can believe it, it's all in the game. Any input is appreciated. The story behind CoP and RoZ gives 90% evidence that Bahamut and Phoenix will be summons in the VERY near future.

Edit:

Found info on the four Gods. SE Kept True to the mythology, indeed.

Genbu

Xuánwǔ (玄武)- Dark Warrior Guardian of the North. Associated with winter, the color black, and the element of water. Usually depicted as a turtle with a snake coiled around it. Known in Japan as Genbu, and in Korea as Hyun Moo.

Genbu in Japanese; in Chinese, known as Gui Xian, Kuei Hsien, or Zuan-Wu (Zheng We, Xuanwu). Genbu is always listening, and is thus portrayed as completely versed in Buddha's teachings; corresponds to winter, cold, water, black, earth, and faith. The tortoise is a symbol of a long life and happiness. When it becomes one thousand years old, it is able to speak the language of humans. Able to foretell the future. In artwork, often shown together with the snake. In Japan, however, the turtle has been largely supplanted by its Buddhist counterpart, known as Tamonten, the most popular and powerful of the Shitenno (the Four Buddhist Protectors of the Four Directions). Tamonten is also known as the Black Warrior and is also called Bishamonten; like the tortoise, his imagery corresponds to north, winter, and black.

One of the Celestial Emblems, the symbol of longevity and wisdom. It is said that its shell represents the vault of the universe. A common symbol for longevity is the Tortoise and Snake, whose union was thought to have engendered the universe. The reason why tortoise symbolism has been superseded by the Black Warrior as the emblem of the North, is probably due to the fact that 'tortoise' is a term of abuse.

Byakko

Báihǔ (白虎)- White Tiger Guardian of the West. Associated with fall/autumn, the color white, and the element of metal. Known in Japan as Byakko, and in Korea as Baekho.

The White Tiger of the West, for instance, is associated with metal. When, therefore, metal is placed in a grave, a ceremonial connection with the tiger god is effected. According to the Chinese Annals of Wu and Yueh, three days after the burial of the king, the essence of the element metal assumed the shape of a white tiger and crouched down on the top of the grave. Here the tiger is a protector - a preserver. As we have seen, white jade was used when the Tiger god of the West was worshipped; it is known as 'tiger jade;' a tiger was depicted on the jade symbol. To the Chinese the tiger was the king of all animals and lord of the mountains, and the tiger-jade ornament was specially reserved for commanders of armies. The male tiger was, among other things, the god of war, and in this capacity it not only assisted the armies of the emperors, but fought the demons that threatened the dead in their graves

Suzaku

Zhūqùe (朱雀)- Red Bird Guardian of the South. Associated with summer, the color red, and the element of fire. Sometimes associated with Qinglong; together the phoenix and the dragon represent the give-and-take nature of a happy marriage. Known in Japan as Suzaku/Sujaku, as in Korea as Ju Jak.

In Japan, the term "Suzaku" is translated as "Red Bird" or "Red Chinese Phoenix." In both Japan and China, the symbolism of the red bird seems to be identical to or merged with that of the mythological Ho-oo (Phoenix).

Corresponds to summer, red, fire, and knowledge; makes small seeds grow into giant trees (need to give source). Often paired with the dragon, for the two represent both conflict and wedded bliss; dragon (emperor) and phoenix (empress). Portrayed with radiant feathers, and an enchanting song; only appears in times of good fortune.

Seiryu

Qīnglóng/Cānglóng (青龍/蒼龍)- Green Dragon Guardian of the East. Associated with spring, the colors green and blue (thought of as a single color), and the element of wood. Known in Japan as Seiryū, and in Korea as Chung Ryong. The dragon corresponds to the season spring, the color green/blue, the element wood, and the virtue propriety; supports and maintains the country (controls rain, symbol of the Emperor's power). Often paired with the Phoenix, for the two represent both conflict and wedded bliss. In both China and Japan, dragon and phoenix symbolism is associated closely with the imperial family -- the emperor (dragon) and the empress (phoenix).

Represents the yang principle; often portrayed surrounded by water or clouds.

[Darkhound]

Wow... thank you so very much for your response! In regards to your missing dragon.. i think its Tiamat.....

Anway... i am truly amazed with you knowledge of the FFXI story.. bow... but Would it be to much to ask if you can give me bit more info on ....

how do i do that anti spoiler thing......? before i post?

[WishMaster3K]

lol

[ spoiler = "title" ] word words words [ / spoiler ]

And ty, it was Tiamt. I researched him, but forgot to copy his info. I'll edit the post.

All that data is via htt://www.wikipedia.com :D

Edit:

check my above post, added info on the 4 gods.

I researched them because playing FFXI got me interested ^^

Who say's video games arent educational!? Goooooooo SE!!!!

[tazirai]

if you've done the pokemon quests(fellwoship) Then you knwo that its tied into the story of Aht Urghan and there are two beings, that could be added as new summons.
The divinity of light and the divinity of darkness. Or in what I term Alexander and Odin.
They could be a new grade of avatar, we have terrestrial, elemental and spirits. The next could be Celestial being that the Pokemon quests refer to them as being like the divinities in the heavens.

But what do I know..

[Darkhound]

Well, 1st of all I want to thank each and everyone of you that has taken time into replying my posts. Getting a little off topic for a while, let me introduce my self. I am Darkhound, a fellow summoner in the Kujata server. I have been playing FFXI for almost 2 years now and I just came back to the game aweek ago after a 5 months break, and come back fully charged! I am VERY surprised that I never bumped into this website before, wich let me say is amazing. There seems to be a very serious people working here and the community seems stable and frendly. I was basically a visitor of allkhazam, killvoid and ing.vault, but since my office recently shut down all access to "Gaming" websties i browsed and browsed and for some reason JUST the forum section of this site escaped the filteing YAY!!!! So now i have something to do while i work!

That being said, let me get back to topic...

Can anyone provide more info on

Avatars

Phoenix, Bahamut, Odin and Alexande?
How come these rumors seem to be pretty based? I would certainly like
to see Pheonix on the game... is it possible or are we having high hopes?

Thanks in advance,
DH

Oh and btw.. thanks Wishmaster for the spoiler tip!

[Pai Pai Master]

It's always possible. I highly doubt Square Enix will reach a point where they say "we don't need any more avatars." If anything, I'm sure they plan on trying to get as many classic Final Fantasy summons in the game, and maybe some original ones as well.

I think Phoenix is a given, and could be the next summon. I don't, however, think Bahamut will ever become summonable. Yes, given history, both Fenrir and Diabolos have become summonable. It just seems different with Bahamut, with regard to the story. Sure Diabolos is the lord of darkness, but Bahamut is the king of dragons...and since SE just added a boss fight against him, I don't see them making another battle to get him as a summon.

Odin and Alexander do almost go hand-in-hand, with darkness and light. However, I'm skeptical of Alexander being in the game at any point in time (as much as I love that damn summon), simply because he's just too big. Sure, other summons like Ifrit or Titan have been rather large in past Final Fantasy games, but they're aren't damn castles with holy missile launchers. Shrinking Alexander down like that would kinda lose a lot of what he's supposed to be.

But meh, just my speculation I'd love to see as many classic summons as possible.

[Darkhound]

Imagine Phoenis with rereiseaga or something like that! I would definatley want to see him and I would appreciate any more info on him. On bahamut, on every FF to date he has been a summon, and I hope this is not the exception! But i would be mayorly dissapointed not to see Phoenix in the game. So far, Phoenix is mentioned in teh game atm, but we need to have him!

[JeanRC]

bahamut aleady have 1 part of his avatar quest out now i think.
so most probably is going to be one of the new avatar

[Darkhound]

What do you actally mean by there is part of his summonable quest already there?