[Koroco]

I don't whine, I have other ways of making gil.
Only argument I disagree is with "If there wasn't gil farmers in the past there was someone else there hunting it."
The fact is you stand better chances say at stroper chyme with 1 competitor. Where now you have to compete with 6-12 competitors who never leave ever.

[Lily]

I think the archer rings are popular now too also because of the lvl 30 cap missions in Promyvion. ;x

[Elsurion]

You mean Archer's Knife, yes they are up by 500% by some insane players who pay every price to 50k. i saw someone paying 100k for one.

[Faust]

I bet people were waiting for me to chime in on this one... >.>

Since when did cheating in a game ever become accepted?

Less and less people, it would seem, have less and less respect for fair game play. Purchasing gil is nothing more than a way for people too lazy to raise it on their own to cheat their way through. Sad thing is people that accept that.

Gil buyers = no respect or any skill.

Now I know someone's gonna argue, "I buy gil and I'm one of the best players ever!" Big woop, still had to cheat to get where you are.

Issues with gil sellers are now a fact. They cause problems that even the Japanese are acknowledging. They ARE, ruining the game for people. If you don't care about that, then shoosh and let those that do, fight the good fight.

[LawDawg]

sigh... biggest gil buying misconception? Gil buyers "have no skill".

So laughable. FFXI is NOT a PvP game. It is a TEAM game, a community game almost. Someone choosing to buy gil instead of farming has no relation to that persons skill. I know PLENTY of non-gil buyers who just plain suck. And I know plenty of gil-buyers who are very skillful (probably more apparent in the higher levels). I'm sorry, but bashing on enemies that are 100 times weaker than you, or spamming a macro as fast as you can, does not equal skill. Sure there are some aspects of gil making that may require skill, but the majority does not.

Finally, in actuality, gil-buying HELPS the community (in at least 1 aspect). If you had to choose to PT with two people of equal skill, but one had the best equipment possible (regardless of how he got it), and one had average equipment, which one would you choose? If you knew the one with the best equipment possible was a gil-buyer would you change your opinion? Having better equipment doesn't really help an individual, but rather, helps the PT/Alliance. Sure its "cheating", but don't try to compare this "cheating" to other games where you are "competing" against other players (like the infamous Monopoly example ). There is no player vs player competition in FFXI... a player getting more skilled and getting better armor only helps the ENTIRE community become "stronger".

[solmeir]

"All NM-required AFs are controlled spawns, and all normal monsters needed for AF are buried in places no gil farmer would dare set foot in. Coffers are camped by thieves and other people who need AF so you'll always have competition there."

And that makes my point entirely. Look I dont think that many people are complaining about the jacked up prices etc, becuase you can just not buy the item.
The issue is the effect that these people have on gameplay (as far as I am concerned)
Take for example the BST's who need to get their axe from Delk's tower.
Go ask a few how long it takes to get the damn thing now that there are drg/whm pairs running all round the tower, and see what they think of their lovely AF experience. Both the key dropper, and the coffer are targets for the gilsellers.
And there is only one other half usable axe in that lvl bracket, so where does that leave them?

Price is only indicative of what the market is prepared to pay.

[Scatman]

Originally posted by Faust
Issues with gil sellers are now a fact. They cause problems that even the Japanese are acknowledging. They ARE, ruining the game for people. If you don't care about that, then shoosh and let those that do, fight the good fight.

And you know this how? I'm not arguing with the rest of your post, since as I said before, buying gil I still would consider "cheating", but how are these "issues with gil sellers" now fact? Just how are they ruining the game? In nearly every thread now, several people have pointed out why these real money transactions won't cause any real harm to the economy of the game, so showing up here and just announcing that it causes harm without any support is kinda like those religious fanatics who run around trying to shove down everyone's throats the fact that God exists.

Personally I don't support buying gil, but I don't support BS either.

[Faust]

I repeat, if you had to buy gil to get to where you were, congratulations on cheating your way up there.

Cheating is cheating, doesn't matter what or where. The fact that some people consider cheating to be "ok" is a pretty pathetic trend. It's a GAME. Just like any other game (unless the whole purpose of the game is to cheat), it's meant to be played within certain constraints.

It IS a fact that gil sellers are a problem. Whether it be economy wise, questionable playing tactics, or what have you, if it wasn't a problem, there wouldn't be a complaint.

If you feel that they're not ruining the game for you, then good for you! Continue to enjoy. There are many others however that feel the same in that the game experience is very much "cheapened" by gil sellers/buyers. In that respect, at the very least, they are ruining the game for many.

[Gman]

I just hate how every conceivable farming spot/ low-mid level NM is always camped 24/7. Before they (gil sellers) came along, there was such thing as peak/non peak hours where I could go farm in Zitah with minimal competition certain times of day. I could camp an NM and only have a few other people there. And these other people didn't pull dirty shit like training stuff, trying to MPK, etc.

Now, how can I farm? The good farming areas are camped NON-STOP 24/7/365 by serious farmers, who are not there at their leisure, but as a job. To say if they left there would be just as much competition is insane. ~Normal~ people come and go from farming/camping. These people might as well be robots... they DONT STOP. That is the big difference between trying to make money with and without gil sellers. No matter when you try, there will always be more farmers than there are mobs, and 90% of them are chinese gil sellers.

For me the issue isnt which players buy gil, and I really dont take much issue with prices of certain items. For me, the problem becomes these "NON-GAMERS" getting in my way of making money for myself, therefore ruining my enjoyment of the game, because it becomes very hard to get money to afford the prices for the high end items. They are hampering MY progress. If a sniper is 450k who cares? As long as I can reasonably make the money to pay for it. With all these fuckers crowding all the zones, I cant make the money to pay for it. Sure I can craft, do BCNM, etc, but crafting takes you in the hole bigtime before you make good money, and BCNM have restrictions like seals and teammates.

Bottom line, gil sellers affect me. It makes me sick when I see them, or hear others talk about them. They dont belong in the game, and S-E are assholes for not getting rid of them.

/end rant

[Shiro_Hayate]

sharlngan, first off....

LEVEL YOUR SUB

Ok now I really don't care about this supply demand crap, it works in life too but then you also forgot about INFLATION. Remember what happened to Germany after WWI? Seeing how as all these GIL FARMERS do is FARM GIL (cough cough, you're pretty stupid for not figuring that out) and that's not what normal players do. We level, we do quests, we have fun, we take breaks, and yes we also farm. Now, if you haven't noticed gil in this game is created extremely easily. Gil creation is greater compared to how much gil we lose. If you don't get what I mean, Chocobo Renting = Losing Gil. Rank Up = Increasing gil. The biggest way to lose gil would be if someone leaves the game, his/her character gets deleted.

THIS IS A GOOD THING BECAUSE THE LESS GIL IN THE GAME MEANS THE LESS STUFF COSTS DUE TO LESS TOTAL GIL AND WE GET TO HAVE SOCIAL LIVES.

Since the majority of leavers would be selling their character/gil (who the hell wouldn't anyways, so much wasted time in this pointless diversion from life), that gil STAYS in the game, and due to that the prices will also go higher. In games such as Risk Your Life, Lineage 2 (err..sorta) Eve Online, Anarchy Online, money has never been a problem for most players because it is easy to obtain and it is also easily lost (buying off NPCs). Basically, the whole economy for FFXI is f***ed up due to the transfer of gil instead of LOSING and GAINING. And of course, the bastards contributing most to this are gil sellers, and gil buyers! I wouldn't exactly blame this on the farmers...but hey, gotta blame someone right?

Oh, and once again. sharlngan LEVEL YOUR SUB.

[LawDawg]

person above me is an idiot, but we realized that a long long time ago.

*** NEWS FLASH ***

"Gil farmers" don't farm gil, unless you are ignorant and made that judgement based on their "title". Gil farmers farm ITEMS. farming items does not affect inflation. wow, wonder how many times i've said this....

"Seeing how as all these GIL FARMERS do is FARM GIL (cough cough, you're pretty stupid for not figuring that out) and that's not what normal players do." <-- lol the irony kills me sometimes.

anyways, GG KTHX nextmap plz.

[guyincorporated]

Originally posted by Shiro_Hayate
sharlngan, first off....
LEVEL YOUR SUB
blahblahblah
Oh, and once again. sharlngan LEVEL YOUR SUB.

Chill the hell out; he is one level off. I'm sure those missing 8 hitpoints he'd get from his fully-leveled subjob are really dragging down the party's overall effectiveness.

[Shiro_Hayate]

Originally posted by LawDawg
person above me is an idiot, but we realized that a long long time ago.

*** NEWS FLASH ***

"Gil farmers" don't farm gil, unless you are ignorant and made that judgement based on their "title". Gil farmers farm ITEMS. farming items does not affect inflation. wow, wonder how many times i've said this....

"Seeing how as all these GIL FARMERS do is FARM GIL (cough cough, you're pretty stupid for not figuring that out) and that's not what normal players do." <-- lol the irony kills me sometimes.

anyways, GG KTHX nextmap plz.

You didn't read my entire post did you? Anyways, do you by any chance live in Toronto? Maybe we can go out for a drink sometime and be happy friends. I know your Asian so if you do live in Toronto how about we meet up at Pacific Mall (Asian Central) in York Region, we could have some BBT and you can meet my friends from FD. If not, you're missing out =(

[LawDawg]

unfortunately i live in Seattle... but I visit richmond on occasion, so if your ever heading there, give me a /tell ... but yeah, I like the BBT in taiwan over anything in NA... omg... so good.

(Btw... i hope no one gets upset over what I post on an online forum...... cause yeah, I just enjoy "getting into it")

[Voila!]

Originally posted by Faust
I repeat, if you had to buy gil to get to where you were, congratulations on cheating your way up there.

Cheating is cheating, doesn't matter what or where. The fact that some people consider cheating to be "ok" is a pretty pathetic trend. It's a GAME. Just like any other game (unless the whole purpose of the game is to cheat), it's meant to be played within certain constraints.

I'm opening up he official rule book to FFXI and I'm reading here that... oh wait I'm not reading anything because there is no rule book. The only thing remotely close to rules are the ToS that nobody follows anyways. The GMs 'enforce' what little rules there are, and by not enforcing whatever gil selling/buying rule you think there is, they're reinforcing it.

There are two ways of obtaining gil, in-game or out. It's not cheating.