[Kaishi1]

call it coincidence or what not.

but it is a fact, that prices for certain items only did increase after gil sellers took control of certain spawns.

prices has been steady since they appeared.

[Scatman]

Originally posted by Tidane
I would accept that, except for the fact that the price stayed right around 150k for Snipers until the Numbers gang began to claim all the Chymes. Guess what happened when they got hang of Mee Deggi? Kotes price tag jumped.

I can't speak for Mee Deggi, but we're on the same server, and I camped the chymes for a long time between January and March. The price had been increasing well before the Numbers got there. When I first started selling archer's, we sold them at 200k each, then it slowly went up to 300k, and finally the Numbers and Osnake's gang showed up somewhere around 350k-400k. The price already went up a fair amount even without the influence of these gil-sellers.

And don't forget, Monks were considered to be a crap job for a long time by NAs, and it wasn't until these last few months that they've finally been recognized as a pretty powerful DD class. That would encourage more people to play as the class, and with that follows the price increase of the kote.

[Russta]

Originally posted by Pounce
Its because they have more money than time.

Seriously:

Let's say you have a great, but busy job earning a 6-figure salary. You only can play FFXI for say, 5 hours a week. Wouldn't you be tempted to buy gil too?

My friend explained the whole concept to me. While I don't remember the details, basically if he works X hours (at a real life job) and uses the money earned during those X hours to buy gil from IGE, he would be making a more economical use of his time than if he were to spend those same X hours trying to make gil legitimately in-game.

Yes, it's technically cheating, and no, I in no way support gilsellers and think they should be dumped in a vat of hot oil. But you have to realize how some people view things, and I don't truly blame gil-buyers.

This post mirrors my views on it exactly. A guy in my LS has a high paying job with long and stressful hours and a girlfriend also bringing in money. When he gets home the last thing he wants to do is endlessly farm and would rather do something productive with his friends.

Instead of complaining why not put some research into less conventional farming methods then keep your mouth shut about them. It's what I did and me and my friend have made 1.5million farming in four trips with a total time of under fifteen hours total. One session my farming partner used a parser and it worked out we made 8.2k per kill. This problem isn't going away anytime soon so learn to adapt to it, whether you should have to or not isn't relevent if you care so much about making gil.

[Pounce]

Instead of complaining why not put some research into less conventional farming methods then keep your mouth shut about them. It's what I did and me and my friend have made 1.5million farming in four trips with a total time of under fifteen hours total. One session my farming partner used a parser and it worked out we made 8.2k per kill. This problem isn't going away anytime soon so learn to adapt to it, whether you should have to or not isn't relevent if you care so much about making gil.

You are level 75 though. That makes a HUGE difference in that you -actually can- explore other areas to farm that are not (currently) affected by 24/7 gilsellers (who are for the most part between levels 50-60).

Tell that to a level 50 who has to compete directly with gilsellers. Granted, there are other means of making gil without farming. But gilsellers have almost totally removed mid-level farming as a viable means of making gil.

Gilsellers are also rapidly rising in both level and numbers. I'm assuming they want to go after some of the more profitable, higher-level farming zones, since they have no problems farming their current zones right now.

What will happen when we have legions of Lv70+ gilsellers infesting every possible farming zone? Because that's what will happen eventually. As of now, almost every possible <60 farming zone is already infested 24/7.

I've noticed a great majority of people who see nothing wrong with gilsellers are either:

- High level
- Have other means of making gil [and usually jobs like WHM or BRD who can't farm well to begin with]

Heck, to be honest, I'm not really affected by them either. But I do know people who are, and I've seen first-hand what they do.

thats hardly a good reason to buy gil...if you dont have time to do it right dont do it at all...

Some people spend hundreds of dollars out on a single night out . Some people spend hundreds of dollars on a baseball card for what is basically a piece of paper. Some people spend hundreds of dollars for a fart-cannon so that their civic sounds like a racecar.

Who am I or you to say spending a few hundred dollars on virtual money is any more or less smart/stupid?

[wolfjorg]

I hear you Tidane the NUMBER gang can suck a fat one in ordells and davoi.

I have tried numerous times to get the stroper but they cheat right in front of you by pulling mobs and shit.

[Buuyon]

Originally posted by Pounce
Some people spend hundreds of dollars out on a single night out . Some people spend hundreds of dollars on a baseball card for what is basically a piece of paper. Some people spend hundreds of dollars for a fart-cannon so that their civic sounds like a racecar.

first off buying something for a civic means you bought a civic...and well civics suck...so yeah thats a real dumb idea, paying over 10 bucks for a card is plain retarded, and paying money for fake money thats available to you IN THE GAME YOU ARE BUYING IT FOR is plain fucking stupid...

when buying the card or muffler you are atleast buying something you can just sit down and make in a few hours with a ps2/pc...calling ffxi a hobby doesnt mean spending an extra 100 a month for gil is alright...it means you are lazy...now if you say "well remot controll planes/cars are a hobby and you can spend money makign them better cant you?" yeah you can, but you cant just go out into some random feild and find the parts...

you can not compare ffxi to any collection/hobby out there....so dont try...

[Scatman]

Originally posted by Pounce
Gilsellers are also rapidly rising in both level and numbers. I'm assuming they want to go after some of the more profitable, higher-level farming zones, since they have no problems farming their current zones right now.

What will happen when we have legions of Lv70+ gilsellers infesting every possible farming zone? Because that's what will happen eventually. As of now, almost every possible <60 farming zone is already infested 24/7.

I already said this in another thread, but no one has to worry about the gil-sellers saturating the game. A friend of mine sold all his gil just one month ago to IGE since he was quitting, and he got over $90 for it. Now that I'm considering quitting, I checked the prices again, and they're offering $40 for the same amount. Obviously their banks are overflowing with excess gil that the "career gil-sellers" have dumped on them. The more gil-sellers show up, the lower the prices will be, and that in turn will eventually make some of them stop selling gil.

The whole career farming problem is completely overblown, as most economies tend to be self-correcting. Yes, they are still annoying, but that doesn't mean that they're ruining the entire game as many like to put it.

[Pounce]

you can not compare ffxi to any collection/hobby out there....so dont try...

Yes, I can try, because face it, at the lowest level, FFXI is just another hobby, exactly the same as collecting stamps, flying RC airplanes, etc.

You mentioned RC vehicles. Some RC enthusiasts swear that building/upgrading/maintaining your RC plane/car/whatever is "all part of the hobby". Other people despise that aspect of the hobby, and only want to fly/race/whatever.

Lo and behold! What do they do? People actually pay others to build/paint RCs for them!

Real cars? Say I want to make my civic into a 10 second drag racer. I have the money. Maybe I even know how to. But I don't want to go through all the dirt, oil and grime to do the modifications myself. What do I do? I hire a someone to do it for me!

Howabout tabletop miniature wargames? People always say "you have to paint your own miniatures, it's all part of the hobby!".

On the other hand, some people love playing the game, yet despise painting miniatures (and/or have no artistic talent to paint them to begin with). Or maybe they don't have time to paint them (which does take a long time).

These people either:

- show up for matches with unpainted gray/silver miniatures (and get laughed at). This is the equivalent of being called "gimp" in FFXI. I know some gaming clubs/stores don't allow you to participate if you don't have fully painted miniatures. Again, like refusing to invite that DRK because he doesn't have haubergeon/dualsnipers.

- pay someone to paint their miniatures. I'd say this is damn similar to buying gil.

Especially in this day and age, how does the fact that something is "virtual" and only exists in electronic form make anything different?

Don't get me wrong - I disapprove of gilbuying just as much as you do. But I see your reasons as really shallow.

I already said this in another thread, but no one has to worry about the gil-sellers saturating the game. A friend of mine sold all his gil just one month ago to IGE since he was quitting, and he got over $90 for it. Now that I'm considering quitting, I checked the prices again, and they're offering $40 for the same amount. Obviously their banks are overflowing with excess gil that the "career gil-sellers" have dumped on them. The more gil-sellers show up, the lower the prices will be, and that in turn will eventually make some of them stop selling gil.

I think it's too early to tell at this stage. Perhaps the price of gil will sink so low that it no longer becomes worth gilselling as a full time job.

However, that may occur far later than you or I may think. After all, every gilseller I have encountered so far has been Chinese, and while $100 may not be much money in the US, it's worth quite a lot more in some other countries.

[Buuyon]

Grats Pounce! you failed at reading what i said!

As i said...gil can be found in ffxi for free...RC cars/planes/cards/real cars/ect need to be made with expensive machines and such...you cant just head on down to the swamp and find some car parts lying around, well ok you might be able to find some broken down car but that doesnt count because its from the 1950s...

its not the same as some other hobby because you can find this gil in the game already...

[Pai Pai Master]

It's not necessarily the economy that i see gill-selling is messing up. Personally, I think it's unfair because NMs are overcamped with gil farmers now, and it makes it harder for some people who once relied only on NM hunting as a means of income. In addition, I find it a little unfair that people who play the game honestly, and don't purchase gil illegally, have to work so hard when anyone else can just spend money on more gil, and not face any consequences (which is more of a fault of Squenix than IGE...but it's still a problem stemming from gil-selling)....

But hey, that's just my two cents.

[solmeir]

"Let's say you have a great, but busy job earning a 6-figure salary. You only can play FFXI for say, 5 hours a week. Wouldn't you be tempted to buy gil too?"

Why yes, yes I would.
But then when I hit the 40's and 50's, and tried to get my AF- I would start getting annoyed because all the monsters I need to kill and the coffers I need I can not get.
Then I would get annoyed, not realising that I had in effect created the problem, and added to everyone else's problem.

So before you start another thread accusing people of whining, please stop and think the whole topic through- not just one part of it.

[ZQM]

Originally posted by Buuyon
its not the same as some other hobby because you can find this gil in the game already...

You have to pay some company for parts to deck out an RC.

You have to pay square enix 13 dollars a month to farm gil.

Gil isn't free. It also takes time to make gil, time = money.

[Scatman]

Originally posted by Pounce
I think it's too early to tell at this stage. Perhaps the price of gil will sink so low that it no longer becomes worth gilselling as a full time job.

However, that may occur far later than you or I may think. After all, every gilseller I have encountered so far has been Chinese, and while $100 may not be much money in the US, it's worth quite a lot more in some other countries.

Nah, there will always be some. If the price falls too low, some will stop, and the price will just go back up, then they'll return again. It's just that there never will be TOO MANY. However, a 50% drop in value over the span of one month is a pretty good indication that some gil-sellers will have to leave (or at least no more can join in). The exchange rate between the US dollar and Chinese currency I'm fairly sure IS the reason why there are only foreign gil-sellers, but even so, at some point, they'd be better off just finding a real job.

Originally posted by Pai Pai Master It's not necessarily the economy that i see gill-selling is messing up. Personally, I think it's unfair because NMs are overcamped with gil farmers now, and it makes it harder for some people who once relied only on NM hunting as a means of income. In addition, I find it a little unfair that people who play the game honestly, and don't purchase gil illegally, have to work so hard when anyone else can just spend money on more gil, and not face any consequences (which is more of a fault of Squenix than IGE...but it's still a problem stemming from gil-selling)....

But hey, that's just my two cents.

Well gil-selling doesn't make the NMs overcrowded. That's a problem with the game itself, considering if the gil-sellers left, the camp spots would still be overcrowded by regular players trying to make money. For instance, I've stopped camping the stroper since the farmers arrived, but if they left, there's a chance I'd return. I'm sure there are at least 20 others who feel the same way, so once they left, it'd just be filled again but different people.

But yes, the basic concept of buying gil is a problem and goes against the spirit of the game. The only reason all these debates start at all, is because drama queens aren't satisfied with a simple problem, and they have to make all kinds of false explanations that gil-selling is the epitomy of evil. Course many get all pissed off reading these inaccurate theories, and a vicious cycle starts. Hence all the threads on the subject, and clowns harrassing IGE customer support.

[Voila!]

Originally posted by solmeir
"Let's say you have a great, but busy job earning a 6-figure salary. You only can play FFXI for say, 5 hours a week. Wouldn't you be tempted to buy gil too?"

Why yes, yes I would.
But then when I hit the 40's and 50's, and tried to get my AF- I would start getting annoyed because all the monsters I need to kill and the coffers I need I can not get.
Then I would get annoyed, not realising that I had in effect created the problem, and added to everyone else's problem.

So before you start another thread accusing people of whining, please stop and think the whole topic through- not just one part of it.

All NM-required AFs are controlled spawns, and all normal monsters needed for AF are buried in places no gil farmer would dare set foot in. Coffers are camped by thieves and other people who need AF so you'll always have competition there.

We play the game to enjoy it, and people buy gil to further the enjoyment of the experience. If you're paying for a virtual character, you're a hipocrite if you're against buying virtual money for that virtual character.

If you didn't notice, FFXI characters are like houses when it comes to equity. The better your house is, the more money it's worth. Prices may go up and down depending on the market, but generally the value of your house will rise. If you buy 600k on a Sniper's Ring, your character is worth 600k more now on the character's market.

If SE isn't willing to do anything about it, then there's nothing we can do about it. I heard a rumor that the kiss' on Seraph were banned or suspended, but I wouldn't know if that's true. Kisstufei has been the only one playing for days, and has been camping in Ordelles.

[little ninja]

truth is S.E shot there own foot on this whole thing. i make 40$ an hour in RL, 8 hr day. thats $320 before taxes. i work 2 hours over time. witch is what i do. thats $60 an hour x that by 2 hrs = $120. so my one day at work i made $440. now i can take the $300 i made, an buy 2mil in gil.


now how long does it take the average player to make 2mil gil. A. camp the nm monster with hopes its pop is soon, you claim it, an get the drop. rarely happens. so you spend the next 3hrs waiting, then someone else claims it.. so you spent 3 hours for a total of 0 gil.. now lets say you get the drop 300k in 3hrs camping. you still need to figure, you need to get 1.7mil. an to do it in 5 hrs. thats not even calculating the number of hours it will take to sell, undercutters, an people not wanting to buy it a.s.a.p. is it worth it??

i can farm the average between 40k-100k every 4 hours. for me to make 2 mil. between 80hrs, an 1000 hours.. for me to work in RL. 8hrs..

things i believe could help out the problem, would have been more mobs that drop gil. in doing so coming by money is somewhat easier, NPC actually paying you good amount for items would be another way. 1 exp. silver beastcoin would fetch you 14 gil, A.H PRICE 400-600GIL. why the npc would sell a sword for 40k. when i could buy it at the a.h for 4k. then when im curious what i would get back for it. i only see the number 1k.. thats just screwed up.. how about s.e catering too the high lvl jp, an the lucky na players who got a craft high enough.. guy in my ls made 2mil the first day with these new crafts.. while i made $0. cause im not to that lvl yet..

im not for gil selling or buying. but we all can clearly see why gil buying will never stop, its just makes more sence..