Delay = Seconds ratio??

[little ninja]

my vasagoo scythe delay 528 was 5-6 seconds from swings. tp 99 after swing. id count to five an hit my macro. id hit the mob right into a weapon skill everytime.

[Alontier]

All FFXI motions are based on 60fps internally regardless of what fps we get in game,
the actual delay (seconds) is also calculated based from this.
For the cynics and you with profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years
and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers,
you can check it yourself by using FFXITool or FFXIModelViewer,
watching the character animations and compare the FPS and seconds counter shown there.

These numbers were then often used to make tables such as:

[code]Delay Tp/Hit(%) 100%TP
999 18.4 92.0%+1hit=110.4% ( 6hits=99.90sec)
888 17.1 85.5%+1hit=102.6% ( 6hits=74.00sec)
666 14.3 85.8%+1hit=100.1% ( 7hits=77.70sec)
528 12.6 88.2%+1hit=100.8% ( 8hits=70.40sec)
513 12.4 99.2%+1hit=111.6% ( 9hits=76.95sec)
502 12.2 97.6%+1hit=109.8% ( 9hits=74.70sec)
498 12.2 97.6%+1hit=109.8% ( 9hits=74.70sec)
495 12.1 96.8%+1hit=108.9% ( 9hits=73.35sec)
489 12.1 96.8%+1hit=108.9% ( 9hits=73.35sec)
480 12.0 96.0%+1hit=108.0% ( 9hits=72.00sec)
475 11.9 95.2%+1hit=107.1% ( 9hits=71.25sec)
470 11.7 93.6%+1hit=105.3% ( 9hits=69.90sec)
466 11.7 93.6%+1hit=105.3% ( 9hits=69.90sec)
465 11.6 92.8%+1hit=104.4% ( 9hits=69.75sec)
458 11.5 92.0%+1hit=103.5% ( 9hits=68.70sec)
456 11.4 91.2%+1hit=102.7% ( 9hits=68.40sec)
444 11.1 99.9%+1hit=112.0% (10hits=74.00sec)
443 11.1 99.9%+1hit=112.0% (10hits=74.00sec)
431 10.8 97.2%+1hit=108.0% (10hits=71.83sec)
418 10.5 94.5%+1hit=105.0% (10hits=69.66sec)
405 10.2 91.8%+1hit=102.0% (10htis=67.50sec)
-------------------------------------------
* 1%TP for every around 40 weapon delay
* delay 60 = 1 sec
[/code]
This table was used to describe why a normal scythe coud be preferred instead of the HQ one.
Scythe Dmg: 38 Dly: 528 → +100%TP after 8 hits (70.40sec)
Scythe+1 Dmg: 39 Dly: 513 → +100%TP after 9 hits (76.95sec)

[Medion Palemoon]

I was in the same group as those who believe 100 delay = 1 second. Me being the curious person I was, I decided to test it myself.

I grabbed my L15 THF, equipped an onion dagger (193 delay), and my stopwatch.

If 100 delay = 1 second, then the swing time should be 1.93 seconds.

If 60 delay = 1 second, then the swing time should be 3.216 seconds.

Obviously, a human hand and a stopwatch dealing with milliseconds = mucho human error. So, testing between two swings is kind of moronic, even with such a wide margin of error.

So, I'd simply find a mob that would survive several swings, and time from the first hit to the 10th hit, then divide the total time by 10 to get an average. Note: I'm timing from when the first and 10th hits show in the chat box. Going by animations is very unreliable.

10 swings = 32.25 seconds...

32.25/10 - 3.225 seconds per swing.

So, with human error figured in, which is this closer to, 1.93 (100 = 1sec), or 3.216 (60 = 1sec).

At this point, you cna take me at my word, or you can test it yourself. But anyone who argues that 100 delay = 1 second from hereon out, IMO, has done no testing other than perception.

[Blood Red Poet]

Okay, let this topic die .

Once again thank you, but not to the people who flamed, even if you gave useful information. XD

[Balodoth]

Thanks, I'd been wondering about this but was just too lazy to do the work myself. Of course, I'll verify this for myself now that I have seen other people's work on the matter.

Also, thank you Alontier for the TP guide. That was another thing I wondered about. It also explains how my spear at just below 400 delay will give me 9 TP one hit and 10 the next. I didn't know the system kept track of tenths, but it does explain that.

The only question I have left about delay is if it is figured in, even a little bit, into accuracy. For instance, as a THF, with higher dex, I'll have the same accuracy as DRG (pre-accuracy bonus). DRG gets less hits, but seems to connect more often overall. My theory is that higher delay weapons have a slightly higher accuracy built in because they have less chances to connect than weapons like daggers and swords--not that the bonus is tremendous, but does seem to be there.

[Matkun]

Originally posted by Balodoth

The only question I have left about delay is if it is figured in, even a little bit, into accuracy. For instance, as a THF, with higher dex, I'll have the same accuracy as DRG (pre-accuracy bonus). DRG gets less hits, but seems to connect more often overall. My theory is that higher delay weapons have a slightly higher accuracy built in because they have less chances to connect than weapons like daggers and swords--not that the bonus is tremendous, but does seem to be there.

I'm pretty sure that's doubtful, or atleast just perception. I'd swear though that my Greatsword has a higher built-in accuracy then my Scythe, and my Scythe has a much higher delay..

[Medion Palemoon]

Actually, higher delay weapons have something built in to comepnsate for their higher delay...a higher base damage number.

Other than the DMG and DELAY ratings, there really is nothing hidden. A two-handed weapon will swing slower, but they're meant to also hit harder.

[Zaptruder]

Also... subtle bonuses of longer delay weapons

are more TP (and damage dealt) on double attacks then a weapon with lower delay... and of course, a heavier critical.

Obvious bonuses of higher delay weapons are that, doing more dmg, they also do more dmg during the WS... without factoring the WSs in...

[Matkun]

Originally posted by Zaptruder
Also... subtle bonuses of longer delay weapons

are more TP (and damage dealt) on double attacks then a weapon with lower delay... and of course, a heavier critical.

Obvious bonuses of higher delay weapons are that, doing more dmg, they also do more dmg during the WS... without factoring the WSs in...

Not really, chances of double attack going off are same as your chances of hitting.

If you swing fast with a low delay weapon, you get more chances for double attack to go off, but less damage per each double attack.

If you swing slow with a high delay weapon, you get less chances for double attack to go off, but more damage per each double attack.

[Spider-Dan]

Just thought I would chime in on this particular discussion.

If you think that 60 delay = 1 second, go grab a 600 delay gun + 240 delay bullets and do some testing.

With said combo, the following macro:

/ra <t>
/wait 9
/ra <t>

...results in two gun shots. If 60 delay = 1 second, it would need to be at least /wait 14. This is not even close.

100 delay = 1 second. TP calculations are a totally separate issue, as we can only assume that delay is the only factor in calculating TP return. Seeing as how different weapon types return TP at different ratios*, even this assumption is a stretch.

*edit: I suppose I should back up this statement, so as to avoid a flurry of posts screaming, "no they don't!"

Combat Caster's Scimitar- 229 delay
TP return: 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7
= 6.125 TP per hit
229 / 6.125 = 37.39 delay per TP point returned

Pirate's Gun + LV22 Bullet- 840 delay (600+240)
TP return: 16, 17, 16, 17, 16
= 16.5 TP per hit
840 / 16.5 = 50.91 delay per TP point returned

And just to head off another potential objection, yes, ammo delay is included in TP return calculations. You get more TP per hit with a 288 delay Sleep Bolt than with a 192 delay Crossbow Bolt (same xbow).

[Matkun]

Originally posted by Spider-Dan
Just thought I would chime in on this particular discussion.

If you think that 60 delay = 1 second, go grab a 600 delay gun + 240 delay bullets and do some testing.

With said combo, the following macro:

/ra <t>
/wait 9
/ra <t>

...results in two gun shots. If 60 delay = 1 second, it would need to be at least /wait 14. This is not even close.

I went out and timed again, with

this macro:

/echo start
/wait 5
/echo end

I started the macro when I saw the text message of my hit. I had no lag, and with my Greatsword with 453 delay, I needed a /wait 8 inbetween hits to match up with the damage text.

By 100 delay = 1 second, /wait 5 if started after the hit, should show up after the next hit. It never did, there was always a wait of 2-3 seconds after 'end' showed up before the text message of my next hit.

With /wait 8, it matched up properly, which matches up with the 60 delay = 1 second theory.

Did the same with a stopwatch, My greatsword and Scythe both take more then 7 seconds between swings.


I also tried out your method using a /ra <t> /wait macro with my crossbow and bolts,

Delay = 288 +192 = 480. /ra <t> /wait 5 /ra <t> Did not work, but /wait 6 did.. Which does not match up with what I found out from melee weapons.

I also noticed and realized that ranged weapon attacks function very differently from melee weapon attacks. Ranged have a 'startup' delay, where you are aiming and have a delay before you deal damage or miss. Melee Weapons have a delay AFTER you deal damage or miss.



Which leads to a few possible conclusions..

1. Melee weapons have a 60 delay = 1 second ratio, Ranged have 100 delay = 1 second ratio.

2. Ranged Weapons delay is somehow spread over the aiming period/after shot waiting period..

Basically something is different about ranged weapons, because from all tests, with /waits and timers and stopwatchers, ALL Melee weapons have complied with 60 delay = 1 second.

And I know I posted this also in the THF thread, but it needs to be addressed in both, and different people will be reading it.

[Bigokk McGock]

The FFXI log files really need to have a timestamp feature added to clear this up.

[Timoham]

IMO we already know that ranged weapons do not follow the natural laws and equations of melee weapons. IE Ranged attack, ranged accuracy, delay, etc are all different from a melee weapon. Using a gun is not really a viable choice to test this with. If you're saying that 100 delay = 1 second, then with a 150 delay weapon you could attack 40 times in one minute. Right. I don't believe that for a minute.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by Timoham
Using a gun is not really a viable choice to test this with. If you're saying that 100 delay = 1 second, then with a 150 delay weapon you could attack 40 times in one minute. Right. I don't believe that for a minute.

But you do believe that a Sarnga (720 delay) takes 12 seconds to fire, and (with ammo delay) can only fire 4 times a minute? OK.

Stopwatching is ridiculously unreliable. You have to assume that your autoattack timer never gets interrupted or paused by anything. Ranged attacks are the best way to test delay, because they have a defined and controllable beginning and end.

[Medion Palemoon]

Ranged attacks follow some different rules than melee attacks. I don't think that the delay of teh ammo + the delay of teh weapon = the total delay.

With that said, normal melee weapons do follow the 60 del = 1 second rule. That really cannot be disputed.

I agree that using a stopwatch itself is innacurate. Testing the time between two swings is unreliable. That's why I did 10 swings and found an average.