[Lunakat]

So far, FFXI has been very enjoyable. The only thing that I really have a problem with is the some of the people and gaming etiquette.

For example,

Pulling, you're going to pull a mob, have it targeted and even have your weap out to attack, start casting on it and someone runs up and attacks it before you get a shot off. It is blatently obvious that you are going to attack but they manage to steal it...

Camping, you and your crew are killin forest tigers at the 2 spawn in Jugner, been there for over 2 hrs takin the pops. Multiple other groups and individuals run by and start watchin for the spawns. Again, It is obvious that we are campin the spot but the others dont give a dam, then the competition starts, who can pull the spawn first...

Logging, you go running up to a tree and stop for a second, someone else runs up after you and hacks away before you get a chance to...

Is this common through out the game and at higher levels? Do people actually learn some manners or is it cut throat the entire time?

I feel that it is very rude to go after the same target that another PC is obviously targeting. I understand that SE has a system that prevents KS'ing which is a good thing but I believe that there should be some manners practiced in game too.

Thanks for your imput
Lunakat

[Ajhev]

While yes this is annoying, there is no "camping" in FFXI, which boils down to whoever gets off the fastest action gets the mob, mining point, harvesting point, ect. This is very true for NM hunting where you may have 5 or more people waiting on a spawn and whoever pulls it first gets it. Most times if you are looking for a specific drop and need it for your character, you can ask people to let you have the spawn and alot of times they will let you. I wouldn't bother asking on any of the NM spawns that drop high gil AH selling items tho... Personally I harvest/mine alot and it has always been first come first serve, so it is usually in your best interest to learn all the spawn points and the fastest route to them. Also if a PT moves in on your hunting grounds, have someone with bio or dia pull, this tends to be the fastest pull. Hate to say that's just the way it is, but that's just the way it is...

[Yarr]

this game is all bout "first come first serve"

[Lunakat]

well, that sux. I played EQ for years and there were repricussions for KS'ing and camp stealing. Its really too bad that people act this way. But thanks for the response. Now i know what to expect.

Lunakat

[Arturo-B]

Originally posted by Lunakat
well, that sux. I played EQ for years and there were repricussions for KS'ing and camp stealing. Its really too bad that people act this way. But thanks for the response. Now i know what to expect.

Lunakat

I find as far as things like overcamping the higher you get most people are pretty cool about it. Not so much because they really care about you, but because 2 camps on top of each other will get both groups with the AOE and will lag everyone. I actually find JP groups tend to overcamp more, but this certainly isn't the norm.

As far as taking kills, most people also get to be pretty nice about this after level 30 or so. If someone is obviously bringing something back to camp, the repurcussions for taking it are pretty high on a reputation level, so most people are pretty cognizant of this.

I find with harvesting/logging most people are pretty cool about this. If you get the spot, they move on to find another one. Of course you will always get people who will try and steal the spot, but I find this to be relatively rare. Considering that the spots last for only a few hits anyways, it's usually more beneficial to move on and find another anyways.

As far as NM's, it is without question first who gets it. When the mobs drop items that cost 200k+ with a rare drop and 6 or more people around, no one is going to just let you have it. I camp a lot, and have had what I assume are EQ people say will you pass, and the reality is if you're too slow too bad. Just because you've sat there 10 minutes more than I is no reason you deserve a 300k drop. Sorry.

Quest NM's tend to be more of an orderly thing from what I've seen. Of course the times so far where two people want the same quest mob tends to be awfully rare, and quest NM's generally pop pretty quickly. For example the rank 5 ones pop every 10 minutes, so if you miss one it's hardly a long wait.

Now I can understand being upset in EQ, where I hear you could get a pop and if some high level came along and did more damage than you, they got the kill, but FFXI locks targets to you, so if you get the pop it's yours. Of course getting the pop is the fun part.

[Dux]

Yeah I have noticed that apart from the odd party at lvl 39 I almost never see "bad" behaviour like that.

Still, they pay the same money, are just as entitled as you and as as there is no proper way to setup a defined camp perimeter they can camp where-ever they wish. It may not be nice but there is nothing that can be done.

[Thark601]

Nest Beetles, Crawlers Nest....
4 pt's camping an area with about 5 beetle spawns every 10 minutes....

fun fun

[Tukka]

Yeah, at first glance, Final Fantasy XI's system is cool because it means there's "no killstealing" as there is sometimes in EQ, but it's a bit uncool because it feeds into a competitive "first come, first serve" mentality that is not as prevalent in EQ. In that game, if you are camping a NM, usually players who arrive afterwards will defer to you and leave so there's no heated competition over the spawn. The game itself does not have any mechanics put in place to prevent killstealing, but that's where ettiquette steps in to fill the void.

With regard to NM hunting though, it is less an issue in EQ (from what I can tell) because there aren't very many worthwhile static NM spawns anymore... which is the way it should be, IMO. It should be more appealing to fight someplace risky in a good party for loot than it is to sit on a static spawn location of a NM that you can kill in 25 seconds solo.

With regard to hunting areas, there doesn't seem to be enough good zones for hunting in certain level ranges, and within zones there often aren't enough good spots, which leads to overcrowding. This isn't as much an issue in EQ, where there are a ton of hunting areas for people at any given level, and reaching those areas usually isn't too difficult or time consuming, so crowding is not a big problem anymore (earlier in the game's history, it was, though).

I'll admit a time or two I have nabbed a mob out from under someone who's clearly about to attack it. Usually it's kind of a reflex... I see a monster that I want to kill, see that it's name isn't purple yet, and I'll start to cast without stopping to consider anything else about the scene. Even if I want to interupt my spell and let the other person have it, that's not always easy to do, with the way this game gives you no sure-fire way to stop casting a spell (something I wish they would add).

[Trimpton]

I think alot of people would agree that the FFXI community really lacks a sense of community -- Alot of the old MMORPG players really dislike this all for them selves mentality after comming from games with strong communites who look out for each other.

For Example, it is common practice in FFXI for raid items to be all taken and sold and the money split. This is very different from the EQ "Need before Greed" mentality - where if you needed the item weather no one else gets anything from the whole 4 hour raid they will give up money for items you personally need.

As for camps I was dissapointed that its free for all, EQ games and the likes you would ask for a camp check so you dont infringe on someones camp - dont expect that here. If you are in a area and someone wants to camp their too they will walk right over you and try to be the first to take everything.

Even ediquette honestly is completely screwed in FFXI, people have called for help allowed me to take the aggro then teleported out on more than one occasion.

Now not everyone is perfect there are always assholes in everygame but from playing in a game with a strong community ediquette and moving to a game with a bunch of Newcommers to MMORPGS who are in it for themselves, and friendships dont last with level seperations it seems very different from the old games us older MMORPG players have played. Iam sure in time the community will mature themselves but for now there is very little respect for each other I believe - This is all my opinion if you dont like it post yours.

[Balgas]

Trimpton you hit the nail right on the head. The only sense of community I get is from my LS, even then, I don't know half the people in my LS. It seems like everyone is a total stranger and just looking to better themselves in levels and equipment. Kind of dissapointing since I was looking for a game to immerse myself more in. It's still a good game, it's just that the community sucks. :p

[obsidian]

I agree, the etiquete in FFXI sucks major ass. One of the big problems is the so very few places to get XP at specific levels. In Kazham, we were in the 2 sided tunnel because people kept training gobs. Well some other group comes in the tunnel which is fine, it's big enough. But then, they are just about on top of us with a mandragora that slept our mages when we were fighting a seperate dragora. We told them to move farther away the first time this happened. It happened two more times when we finally told them if they don't want our ninja to drop 5 gobs in the middle of their party that they better move. That worked.

In general, outside of NM camping, I try to avoid areas where there are a large number of groups or not enough monsters to supply them. This is true of dunes where there are quite a few spots to camp. Besides, going and overcrowding an area may hurt the other group, but it sucks for yours too.

As far as pulling, if someone has their weapon out I leave them alone. Same goes with logging and mining. You also have to remember, EQ's community is years old. The NA is less than a year with PS2 players only starting soon. MMORPG Communities, like people, take time to mature.

[Brianguam1]

3 words... This isnt Everquest.

[Trimpton]

Yes this isnt everquest. Everquest people have respect for each other, and are more attached to each other as a community. Alot less people are not willing to screw people over for their own gain, or take items from people who need them so they can have some extra money.

The FFXI community is very immature in the fact that most(not everyone, there are alot of good players) do basically everything they do for their own gain and completely ignore the fact that this is a MMORPG and a community based game.

Sorry to tell you but this a MMORPG *HIGHLY* based of the EQ System, everything from the forced party system which was introduced basically by EQ, and almost everything in between. It was based off many of the preceeding mmorpgs but it has a strong resemblence to eq beyond all others, so using it as example is completely viable. To compare communites is also just as viable since its a MMORPG and game dynamics such as forced party are the same.

[Tukka]

3 words... This isnt Everquest.

3 words... "What's your point?"

Trimpton makes a few valid points. FF11 is an MMO, EQ is an MMO. Both games emphasize cooperative Player vs. Environment gameplay, and have a player community. It's interesting to contrast the two communities, identify the differences and theorize as to why those differences exist.

I would agree that EverQuest has a stronger sense of community.

There are several reasons for this that I can guess at (and that others have already mentioned):

- The North American community is still inexperienced.
- The community in general is divided by a language barrier, and without a functioning JP IME in the NA client, even bilingual players may not be able to bridge the gap very effectively.
- The "no killstealing" link game mechanic which prevents conflict, but also results in a lack of need for ettiquete, and thus a mentality requires that much less consideration for other players in general.
- Narrow level range for viable parties makes it difficult to party consistently with the same people... the ability to change jobs (and in effect, change levels) has the same consequence. It's difficult to members of the community to form bonds with each other if they have difficulty consistently partying with one another.
- Too much high quality loot drops off low level NMs that are ripe for antisocial competition as opposed to being gained through cooperative dungeon crawling and/or quest battles.
- Limited number of good hunting areas and the time and hassle it can take to travel to different hunting areas results in overcrowding, which again results in competitive situations where people are bound to to engage in conflict.
- "Final Fantasy" name appeals to a younger audience, and an audience with less interest and experience in MMOs, people who are not necessarily the best suited to encouraging a healthy community within the game.

In some respects this game has more potential than others to form a strong community. In EverQuest, there aren't as many things like genkei, Rank missions, AF quests, the avatars, ect. that necessitate that you get a group of 6-18 people together. In EQ, you can get along just fine in random 6 person parties, grinding to the level cap and grinding out alternative experience abilities. It's not until you get to cap (or near it, or past it with AA) that you start feeling compelled to participate in events to help yourself and other people to accomplish something other than an exp grind.

I think if Square-Enix tweaked a few things and added a better variety of content, eventually the rest of it will probably sort itself and the community would naturally mature to be in a lot better of a state than it is right now.

I just feel fortunate that I'm in a linkshell lead by one of the coolest people I ever met in EQ, that is populated by a few EQ refuges and an otherwise pretty cool assortment of individuals. I might be pretty miserable otherwise.

[Kesai]

It seems a lot of ppl are still trying to get there bearings in this game, I'm sure after some more time has passed that things will tighten up.

As far as the overcrowding goes, there are lots of places to exp. it's just that nobody ever goes to them, partly due to the reason that NA's like forming PT's at a zone instead of Jeuno or another city...

For myself, I have a fixed PT and we go to the less populated zones..instead of valkrum, the penninsula..instead of kaz we go to battalia etc, etc..

There are plenty of xp zones...it's just that people don't bother exploring other options and just go where everyone else goes.

So next time your in Kaz or wherever, and your getting frustrated by the overcrowding, step up to the plate and get your PT to go somewhere else, they'll be happier for it believe me.