[Tukka]

As far as the overcrowding goes, there are lots of places to exp. it's just that nobody ever goes to them, partly due to the reason that NA's like forming PT's at a zone instead of Jeuno or another city...

Do you have a web site that lists these underutilized areas? I haven't been able to find a good one, yet. The ones I have found (like the ones on this site) don't even have the areas that I know about, and I'm a relative newbie.

If you have the luxury of a static party, you can do a lot of things that you can't if you don't presently have a group of friends who are of the same level as you with the appropriate spread of jobs. Unfortunately, some of us aren't as blessed and Kazham does seem like the only option. It's a vicious circle... you have to party where the parties are... and most of the parties are in Kazham.

So maybe it isn't as much a problem with a lack of good available hunting areas but simple player ignorance... plus the fact that traveling in this game takes a pretty long time, especially before you get the airship pass.

[Brianguam1]

My point was that you cant expect the people in this game to be like the people in EQ. FFXI has a lot of new and younger players to the whole MMO, just takes time for them to learn whats acceptable and not. If you see something that to you is unaccetable just do a /tell to them.. Doesnt mean that they are going to listen but hey you change one... then another and another.... and you got a huge base of respectable people playing.

[Kesai]

http://mysterytour.web.infoseek.co.j.../us/index.html

Don't know if you've looked at this site yet, but under lvl guide they have a good list of the zones and what lvl they are appropriate for.

You can get to low 30's just on the zones right outside Jeuno..
For example lvl 25-30 you can go to Battalia, around the middle of the zone you'll see lots of entrances to the necropolis? (sorry don't remember the name of the dungeon exactly). Anyways what you'll see are a bunch of openings that lead into the hills, any one of these is suitable to camp. Just have the puller (or pullers, as the mobs can be fairly spaced out in this area) bring them back, and if things go bad it'll take all of 5 seconds for everyone to zone.

Well that is just one example, and it's right outside Jueno...

[Tukka]

Thanks, Kesai, that helps a bit.

I've heard that Battalia Downs is a viable hunting area at level 30, but haven't yet been invited into a party there, and I'm hesitant to try to form a party in an area that I know almost nothing about.

I think I was invited into a party the other day lead by someone who read that site, because when they invited me into the party, they described it as "an irregular" hunting party. When I asked what was irregular about it, they said we'd be fighting in an area where people don't usually exp grind. I decided to join them, and we eventually made it to Beadeaux and hunted there for a while, but it was very slow going for the first two hours, or so, before we figured out the ins and outs of the area (took us a while to figure out how to get to the upper level, and until then we kept getting irritating low level adds... then when we made it to the upper level and we had trouble finding a spot where dangerous higher level links might bother us) and even after we got settled in, the exp wasn't exactly awesome. By the time we were making decent progress, I was already worn out and ready for a break.

Alternative hunting areas are great, providing at least one person in the party already knows the area well. Unfortunately, given the absolutely absurd difficulties one can sometimes face trying to find a party, you have to take what you can get, and that means newbies are likely to take parties in the "standard" overcrowded hunting areas like Valkurm, Qufim, Yuhtunga and Yhaotor and seldom have the oppurunity to break out from the mold and experience something different.

Anyway, I've strayed off the topic at hand enough already, so I'll shut up now. Thanks again for the site.

[Daxem]

Just on a happier note not all of us players are willing to be total jerks and cut-throats the other day another guy and i were mining in the palburgough(damn hard to spell area names) and we both arrived at the spot at nearly the same time, me being a good guy let the other swing and suprisingly he stopped and told me to take a swing. In the end it lasted like an unprecidented 11 swings(never seen this again) and we both ended up with 3-4 mythril ore and i found a platnum. So be nice, karma may give ya something shiny ^^

[Thelps]

For me the most crippling aspect of this game (as mentioned above) is the VERY restrictive party lvl limits to get good xp. I mean, I'm less likely to be nice to someone in the first place if I know that should I go somewhere this weekend and not play they'll be 5 lvls higher than me (and thus permanently outside my lvl range till they take a break of a few days) so we can never party.

In effect this means I can barely make friends in the game since the opportunity to share experiences is so limited that it's impossible to find common ground before the party splits and your lvl diffs slowly widen as the whm/blm get a party immediately, everyone else has to wait 30 minutes and the DRK/DRG/SAMs have to wait at least a couple more hours (post 30) before they can start xping again.

Couple this with the complete impossibility of soloing to catch up at higher lvls means friendship is almost an impossibility beyond sending each other the occasional /t to check up on progress or complain about something.

[Desmar]

I think the biggest boost to playability would result from fixed physics (Edit: Adding jumps also) and the ability to solo and no playing beastmaster isn't a fix. By solo I mean you should be able to get 30-100 xp per kill w/ little downtime, but in parties you get 100-250+ so if you can't find a party you can still progress until one becomes available. (Also making the lvl gap for xp similiar to AC1 would be a nice addition basing your xp depreciation not on party levels but on the number of people in the pt).

Its a shame that this game has so much potential but Square is just leeching money off the Final Fantasy name and doesn't want to take it anywhere.

[Kagi]

It's not just the level spread.. it's how you have to be packed into this concrete party setup of jobs the higher you go. Someone I know is also a paladin like me, but both of us will never be able to party together despite the fact that our level ranges are perfect. It's not even a question, and I find it very sad. You might argue that paladins are different from melee classes, but I've hardly been in a party with 2 melees of the same type either (due to skillchain compatability). Everyone just wants the 'dream team' of 1 tank, 2 different damage dealers, and 3 mages/support classes.

Makes keeping friendships and contacts so much harder.

[Trimpton]

The problem with the irregular hunting zones, that I honestly use sometimes myself is. Difficulty with no reward.

People will obviously take the best deal. And when you have a choice of a mob with High Def & High Dmg Spells/Atk & Death blows or AE Silence (With Slower exp because harder to chain/kill and No reward in money items or exp) or you can fight Onions, Beetles, Bats and Worms which are 100x easier no deathblows, and easy to chain the people will pick the much easier choice.

If they had rewards for fighting harder mobs I think we would have more exploration of those irregular zones, until then people will take the better deal and faster xp.

Whren- Your so right, the concrete party setup is so tight at higher levels (I use that exact "Dream Team" for every pt) - I have no problem once so ever with forced parties - I prefer it - but in EQ I can remeber being near max level doing party formation experiments, like.. we dont have a healer? Np we will just get so much dmg and bind wound real quick on the tank and get another mob otw(funnest party I ever played in .. I think it was like 3-4 rogues 1 monk 1 warrior.. point is no one had mana). Try that at 70+ in FFXI .. youll all be crying for a raise ... The real problem when it becomes a issue like yours when you pick same class as friend and cant PT with them.

[Arximiro]

theres alot of rude ppl and alot of nice ppl. its sometimes good to have 2 pts camping cuz if one of the pts gets a link or aggro the other one can help. Its a good thing sometimes. There are some ppl that are rude, dumb and idotic even in the high lvls tho. like a guy asked me if id join his pt and i was in valkurm and i was on my way there and his friend paladin logged on and he was like im sorry my friends on bye. But thats what the blist is for. Or this drg the other day who kept bragging he had 900k of eqp on and he was so uber. He gound out that the dark had over 100 more atk than him and he had like a fit for the rest of the party. He was penta thrusting robber crabs for 0. I swear someone must have gave a newb a high lvl character cuz he didnt know crap. neway thats my 2 cents.


~Arximiro~

[Trimpton]

Arx is not about nice and mean people... Thats besides the point nor is it about skill.

Nice people even have bad ediquette.

What of my worst issues is the fact that people are so greedy when they are doing BCNM or raiding that they dont even give the people who need and will use the items - the items they need and would use rather they take it all sell it and split it. Everyone does that because thats the way its done in FFXI no other reason besides tradition and greed.

Also when it comes to pulling .. Iam a puller I run my pts tight and I dont trust anyone to pull better than me, Iam willing to die if I get a link etc.

99% of players even if I have talked to them and they were nice will not hestitate to provoke a mob from you even with your weapon drawn. Sure there are good players but the majority pulling is whoever is faster nothing else matters but their own exp income.

Yah its nice to have another group incase you bite more than you can chew, but there are people who will let you aggro and escape with you sitting with a nice mob you can probably not handle yourself.

Sure the community will mature and evolve iam optimistic about it but as of now this is the way things are run until we decide to change them and look out of community good and participate in the community instead of our own good and our own intersted. Its not just nice to give a person a item they need and are going to use on a BC run - its the right thing. After need is done and over greed all the way.

I would also like to instill the fact that Iam a *Ranger* BC's do NOT drop things I need or will use .. and yet I still believe in Need before Greed .. Id personally like to see more whms with raise 2 personally.

[Sylvanis]

there is no etiquette at higher levels. i mean like at af coffers in castle oztojo or whatever that place is. there are a couple classes that need to get their af there but there are also a ton of theives there trying to get astral rings. think they'll let you have the coffer cause you need for af? fat chance, they'll use flee to beat you to the chest. that's the sad reality of it.

[Tukka]

I would also like to instill the fact that Iam a *Ranger* BC's do NOT drop things I need or will use .. and yet I still believe in Need before Greed .. Id personally like to see more whms with raise 2 personally.

I was never a big fan of Need Before Greed. It makes sense in some cases, like if you are in a raiding guild in EQ and are trying to outfit everybody in the guild with the necessary items to move on to more difficult encounters, and it makes sense with a tight group of friends who set out on a "mission" to get a specific item for someone in their clique, but for random parties and things organized largely among strangers, NBG may be well intentioned, but it's not really fair. In EQ, I would try to dissuade parties from going NBG route, even if we were hunting in an area where something dropped that I could use.

The fact that Raise II is sold at the AH as opposed to being given to the WHM in the party doesn't make for one less WHM with Raise II. If whoever is responsible for selling the item sets the price reasonably, then some WHM is going to buy that spell, and now you have one more WHM in the game with Raise II. It's not like the spell is going to be sold to a vendor and disappear from the game entirely.

And I never really liked the name "Need Before Greed" because it implies any other system, is well, greedy. That isn't necessarily the case. "Need Before Fairness" or "Need Before Equity" would be just as accurate a description of the system, if you think about it. And if you think about it a little more, there are few things a person truly needs, so that part is a bit of a misnomer too. Wanting something you happen to be able to use at the expense of everybody else in your party seems a little greedy to me. When you come right down to it, you could call the "Need Before Greed" system "Greed Before Equity" instead and it would be at least as accurate a description of it.

For all the lack of ettiquette in this game, I'm glad that this particular bit of "ettiquette" hasn't taken hold. I think it's better for the community for people to undertake the practice of splitting and sharing with one another, and trusting one another, rather than doing a lottery on the spot for an item between the jobs that can use the item--doing it that way makes at least one person the "loser". I'd rather see the team equally rewarded for a team effort, whenever possible.

Just my opinnion.

[Arximiro]

ya pulling is sometimes BS, there was like 15 pts in yuhtung last night and i was pulling with my thf/nin. i was using sneak atk and getting a nice blow in on the mob to pull it. But it got to the point where it was like camping nms out there. id sneak atk and pull out my weapons and be in half swing and someone would voke it. I guess i cant blame them though cuz they want exp too. jus pisses one off. eventually i got tired of it and let a voker pull

[Tukka]

An experience I had today reminded me of another feature that EverQuest had that Final Fantasy XI doesn't, that I think helps encourage more mature behavior and an overall healthier community.

In EverQuest, guilds (this game's equivalent of linkshells) work a little differently. One important distinguishing feature is that you can use the /who command (the equivalent of /search) to list people by what guild they're in (providing they're not /anonymous).

This meant that if you ever had a problem with someone being a real ass, you could always take it up with an officer or the leader of their guild.

Now, I don't necessarily expect an officer of a guild or linkshell to trust my word against a members' regarding their behavior, but I can tell you from personal experience as an officer in a few EQ guilds, the bad apples in your LS/guild will eventually reveal themselves in many cases from the accumulation of complaints you will receive about them.

Now, it is true that in FF11, as in EQ, there are some linkshells/guilds that just don't care if one of their members is an ass. In that case, however, it often will become apparent when you attempt to contact the guild/linkshell's leaders or officers by their dismissive attitude towards your complaint... and in this case, you know to be wary about anybody from that guild or linkshell.

Unfortunately it's harder for people (and linkshells) to form a reputation in this game, which I think is another element among many that is the reason I encounter someone with a horrible attitude literally every day in this game, a problem I simply did not have in EQ. :\