SE and their insanity

[tazirai]

Originally posted by Ashlok
Only have 3 words, "World of Warcraft".

only have 3 words also star wars galaxies.

NAme means nothing if you arent inclosed or open beta and havent experienced a game yet . will not make it better, only more hyped by folks who THINK it will squish all other games.

WOW will come , people will leave ffxi, people will stay.
the next "X" Brand game will come , people will leave WOW, people will stay.

from what ive seen of WOW , its not that wowing.
Yes im a blizzard freak for their strategy games and they make them good. ONLINE MMo's are another story. IF WOW , has a good story to WOW me, ill check it out, as of right now ANarchy online is the only game to compete with FFXI in story department, and theyve stopped updating their story, yetthe old stuff is still hot even though the game is flawed.


WOW= everyother overhyped game on the market ,
MASSIVE commercials , Print ads, friends co workers talking about it and sensory overload.

FFXI used MGS skills snuck in under the radar and become 2nd/equal to EQ in subcribers(not to ffxi, but to POL).
Thats what youcall hype.
I dun thikn any new mmo is gonna be super friendly to solo, AO said you could solo from 1-200 , HAHAHAHAHA, big joke there. I still like it though.

[strick25]

Originally posted by Sutra
It may be just me, but I find it extremely irritating that this game is set up this way.

Why the hell should it take 15 damn people to kill 1 monster that gives you access to 1 lousy piece of AF clothing???

The same for the Summoner primes, lvl 70+ people plus alliances blah blah blah just to take it down, its truly rediculous!

Plus if you dont have or know anyone this level you are essentially screwed, what is the point of making it this irritatingly difficult? I understand it should be a challenge, even a hard challenge, but nothing should need that kind of absurdity to beat, just for 1 AF item or 1 Summoner Prime summons. Much less to get your next 5 levels from a level cap quest. God forbid you wanted to solo, you could never do it, plus you would need a team of BST to overcome this kind of absurdity.

You're obviously new to the MMORPG genre. Be thankful that it ONLY takes 15 people to do this stuff...in other games like Everquest it takes upwards of 70 people to beat one boss monster. Only requiring 15 people is like a breath of fresh air. The goal of an MMORPG is to encourage team work and cooperative play. You're not supposed to be able to walk up to Ifrit and smack him down all by your lonesome. So, re-think your complain a little bit before you get too worked up. This game is most decidedly better and more leniant when it comes to boss monster encounters and the number of people it takes to do them.

[Issaac]

I like grouping and i like raiding. I dont like soloing because the problem is, when people can - they tend to do it. The AF Armor is still something to look up for, it is ment to be difficult. And its fine like it is.


But:

I also find that the summons should be available in steps from lvl 30 to lvl 60 (or whatever). At lvl 30 you can beat one at lvl 35 lvl 40 etc. If you try later your lvl will be reduced like for Eco Warrior. Then things are in progess and not only the bored high lvl players have access to the summons. I realy dislike like it is.

[Ashlok]

Hehe, SWG was still in beta form when it was released. It had enough content to maybe fill up a month of playing for the casual player.

[Grizzlebeard]

I play both EQ and FFXI. As yet I'm not at the level where I can attempt any of the higher mobs / encounters in FFXI. People state EQ takes 50-72 people to raid one mob to get a two or three drops and this is very accurate. The feeling I get with FFXI is that you require the help of 70th level players to be able to do 40th level quests, this is where there is a difference. I'm assuming that a quest becomes available at say 40th level but doesn't necessarily need to be attempted then, however, people see players who haven't passed this stage as being "noobs". I don't like the idea of being effectively wet-nursed through encounters by current end-game players when I can take an alliance and do it myself but be challenged whilst doing it. I've wiped plenty of times trying to get an encounter down in EQ and would put the same effort into encounters in FFXI. If, I require a level 40 piece of gear though and it is physically impossible to obtain it with a full level 40 alliance then I would indeed be disappointed. There's no point after all being level 70 and then only being able to raid for level 40 armour. As I say, I still have a lot to learn about FFXI and so far, looking for group blues aside, I like what I see. I do, as a three years plus EQ raider, wonder what end game content is like in FFXI though.

[TMPikachu]

from what I know, SWG lacks in content, and is generally an ugly game with bad designs.

WoW... looks promising though, It's about as hyped as any of blizzard's games. Would you call Final Fantasy games hyped? TV commercials, magazine ads, etc.
it's just what you do to spread the word

I also generally trust Blizzard to make good games, I like to think of them as a Squaresoft of America, in the quality of games they make, and the design sense they have in them.

[Tobold]

Star Wars Galaxies was boring, because it was far too easy. A game which is so targeted towards the casual gamer as to allow him easy success, is automatically too easy for everybody who played other MMORPG before. You simply made a character that was all the classes at once, used a pet to tank, healed the pet and yourself, and you could easily solo red con (= IT) mobs. SWG has a very nice crafting system, best I've ever seen, but the economy isn't balanced at all, and once you hit master, you suddenly become filthy rich, so rich that you can buy everything.

All in all, SWG is just not a challenge, and gets boring soon. FFXI is a lot more challenging, and therefor is a lot more fun. But still FFXI is easier than EQ.

It is good for a game to have high level content. And only if you feel that it is very difficult to achieve that high level content, will you also feel a great satisfaction when you reach it. These games are all about setting yourself goals and accomplishing them. But just like "earn 1 million gil" is a goal, and "earn 1 gil" isn't, it wouldn't be much of a challenge if you could solo the AF.

[tazirai]

The myth about this game to many is that you need a level 60+ to help you do everything.
You dont AF can be done at 40 just get enough folks to do it.
Summoners getting summons is an achievement. You level your main to a sutible level and get the summons then level summoner.
Theres a story abotu summoners that many will never know since they must be uber asap.
Square screwed up on summoners , however impatience can make players more flawed than the game itself

[Spink]

You can't just go around trivialising everyone's efforts, especially when the people whose efforts you are trivialising are still paying customers.

Lowering requirements for university degree passes would make them worth less, lowering requirements for AF would make them worth less in the sense of prestige and accomplishment/achievement.

I guess some people don't play games like this for a sense of achievement but it is a typical carrot + string style game.

I think if SE ever said that this was a game for the casual gamer (I'd like some proof on this), they meant the game before level 50.

[Meriadoc]

I have a full time job.. but I don't really have much trouble doing what I want to do.. Bigger tasks are usually during the weekend... I put a lot of work into getting people up for it.. but I still get it done. I have what some would call a life, but I don't care to go out every weekend and get drunk like many people my age or younger..(older people tend to have passed that stage in life) I'd rather sit at home and play FFXI. It may be sad, or pathetic.. but hey, I like it. Even on weekdays.. I still have time to fit in a good 4 hours if I want to.. if not more. Finish work at 5, get home at 5:30 or 6:00.. make dinner, eat it, done by 7:30, or 8:00 at most.. that's 4 hours til midnight.. 8 hours sleep is enough.. even tho I tend to cut the sleep down to 6 because I can live with it, but that's a choice I make..
My point is.. if you really want to have time to play the game, it's not too hard to manage your time to be able to fit in a good chunk of time, even if only on specific weekdays..(ie: if you have classes on certain nights or whatever)
Just wanted to give an objective err.. statement.. or something..

All the random flamers should just shut up and go back to hanging on to their mummy's skirts. >.>

[Sutra]

Its seems some of my statements have given some of you the wrong tone or impression. I have been involved in MMOG's for many years, and even worked in the field. I got married, then had kids and the like.

In this, I know my way around the MMOG market, the mgmt, and the design. Trust me when I say I do more that throw up my party flag.

I never said the AF armour quest should be easier, I actually said I dont mind it being hard, even really long and drawn out hard, but expecting someone to gather 15 people that are WAY higher level than you to get *each* piece is ludicrous. They dont always say "we cater to the casual gamer" but in fact it is inferred ad promoted. From my experience in the industry (and any other one that wants repeat business and to make money) the casual gamer is the key to profits, not the hardcore gamers. As I mentioned before the HC gamers will play the game, max out their level in a week or 2, play it another week, get bored, go to pk mode, if that gets boring they quit. It is a scientific cycle I saw all the time.

I was toting Lineage 2 because it focuses on individual improvement as well as political and group development. This game makes it so you cannot progress past a certain level without help, plus it makes it insanely hard to find a group because of the very stringent level req of 2-3 level difference. On top of making gil almost impossible to get without hours upon hours of farming.

I am not sure about WoW. Since the real brains of Blizzard quit, i'm not sure what WoW will be like after the release. I will be very interested what Roper and the 2 founders of Blizzard come up with in their new gaming studio.

I understand that in EQ it was 50-70 prople for a raid, we all had to suffer thru that, but I was hoping that this game (coming from the best rpg maker on the planet) would put more thought into their party system. It should never take 15-20 people to do any quest. Infact, it should never take more than 1 or 2 people to finish a quest if they was truly doing what they advocate with the casual gamer. They know it is near impossible to organize such an effort, especially when everyone wants the same item, or greed comes into play. Someone mentioned that you should not be able to walk up to Infrit and smack him down. Well, why shouldnt you? If you are a Summoner, isnt it your job to be able to level to a high enough level to actually do a 1on1 fight? What sense of accomplishment is there if you have an army take on Infrit for you while you sit there in the back as a level 1? None, i'd wager. A 1on1 battle is what it should be.

Sorry, I dont mean to write so much, but it would be nice if they game companies put a little more thought into the people playing the game instead of their profit margins.

[Jroggy]

tazirai has already said you do not need people WAY above your level, you'll just need more people your level.

As I mentioned before the HC gamers will play the game, max out their level in a week or 2, play it another week, get bored, go to pk mode, if that gets boring they quit. It is a scientific cycle I saw all the time.

this isn't always true. Hell i've beatin ff6 so many times it isn't even funny, same goes for most of the other FF's. There are many games i will do as much as i can, then go back and do it again(although it may be a few months later).
I think square did good job on the party system because in all the final fantasy games you never accomplished something yourself, you always did it in a group and thats why FFXI's party system is this way.

Sorry, I dont mean to write so much, but it would be nice if they game companies put a little more thought into the people playing the game instead of their profit margins.

We are talking about a MMORPG here, if they didn't care about the people playing the game they'd lose money from people quitting. So really if they care about their profit margines they should care about people playing the game.
Also i think square-enix do care, i mean there was this one bug with a key messing up or something and they fixed it up right away. It wasn't really anything big but it was something bugging everyone.

[strick25]

In the context of an MMORPG it doesn't make sense for you to be able to walk up to a level 60 NM and take it on 1v1 and expect to win. Even in the single player final fantasy titles the game pretty much required you to have at least 2-3 other party members to do the things that the main character could not do.

You are NOT the hero here...this is NOT a single player game. You are not supposed to be able to do everything by yourself. This game is not about you, or me, or any one individual. You are supposed to rely on an appropriate amount of people that are near your own level. Nobody is forcing you to ask the level 70 JP's for help on the Prime Summons, if you want to do it the right way, then wait until you and 10 of your friends are level 60 and then do the fight the way it was intended.

In the mean time, JP's will probably not group you as a Summoner with only Carbuncle...but none of their summoners had their prime summons ( or didn't even play SMN as their main until they got their prime summons ) so why should you expect them to treat you any differently?

[Spink]

Originally posted by Sutra
I never said the AF armour quest should be easier, I actually said I dont mind it being hard, even really long and drawn out hard, but expecting someone to gather 15 people that are WAY higher level than you to get *each* piece is ludicrous. They dont always say "we cater to the casual gamer" but in fact it is inferred ad promoted. From my experience in the industry (and any other one that wants repeat business and to make money) the casual gamer is the key to profits, not the hardcore gamers. As I mentioned before the HC gamers will play the game, max out their level in a week or 2, play it another week, get bored, go to pk mode, if that gets boring they quit. It is a scientific cycle I saw all the time. [/b]

This so-called scientific cycle is only caused by companies who release incomplete games hoping that people won't reach it to the end game content before they are ready to make it up. FFXI was out for 1.5 years before it was released to NA, the end game is good enough for all.

As far as I can tell, if you want to be a casual gamer, you have to accept some limitations, you will still be able to do most of your AF stuff with a party of 55s or 60s so you can wait until then, with the break50 break55 break60 etc there are generally several people already in drop areas trying to get it so you can tag along and help. My linkshell has a set group of 56s in it now, as far as I can tell they had no outside help with AF1-AF3 but they seem to be suceeding at getting their coffer keys etc.

As for summoner, stop bringing this up it's been mentioned time and time again in this thread that the summoner class is broken and will need to be reworked before you (or anyone) sees it properly playable by a NA player. (ie. someone who hasn't been playing for 1.5 years)

[Sutra]

I bring up the case of summoner because they think that the class is not broken, apparently you do.


Strick25 >>This game is not about you, or me, or any one individual. You are supposed to rely on an appropriate amount of people that are near your own level.

Just because a game has a label of "MM" doesnt mean you are in no way intended on being the "hero" or the character that invokes change in that world. Infact many MMOG's promote the fact that you can change the game world and the things going on within it.


Jroggy >>this isn't always true. Hell i've beatin ff6 so many times it isn't even funny, same goes for most of the other FF's. There are many games i will do as much as i can, then go back and do it again(although it may be a few months later).

I was only speaking on a MMOG level, not single player games that are revisited many times. In the industry, we look at the HC people as Quickies, those who play it, beat it, move on. We target the casual gamer, those who we know will be playing the game for at least a year because with only a few hours a day that garuntees their play fee for at least that long. Something bugging everyone is something that gets patched quick, not some random thing, they did what any smart studio would do.


Strrick25 >>Nobody is forcing you to ask the level 70 JP's for help on the Prime Summons, if you want to do it the right way, then wait until you and 10 of your friends are level 60 and then do the fight the way it was intended.

Thats the whole point you need someone (many someones) else to do it with you, theres no satisfaction in that. What kind of accomplishment is there for having a small army against 1 guy? Looks like a gang beating to me.


Spink >>This so-called scientific cycle is only caused by companies who release incomplete games hoping that people won't reach it to the end game content before they are ready to make it up. FFXI was out for 1.5 years before it was released to NA, the end game is good enough for all.

Actually Spink, this is the mentality of every game company I have had dealing or worked with. It is part of the business structure of how they expect their profits to go. They know on the release day there will be bugs not found thru QA, they know that the HC gamers will landblast the game, hackers will try to deconstruct it, finding all the flaws to level thru to max level just so they get the �ber name and say "I was the first". The casual gamers will also log in on ship day and like it or they wont. There will be the 2-3 weeks of getting used to controls, storyline, and item association, along with a general feeling of what the game is about, then they will put in there 2-4 hours and log off. It is part of everyday business in gaming companies, I wouldnt expect you to know this unless you have worked in one.