[Armando]

Its not dumb if you know to work it. I took the time to learn to navigate them menu's quickly and easily so I dont really struggle with them, and as Shadowneko said, macro timers also help =P

It's viable but far from ideal. For starters, gear swaps aren't possible from within menus so any action that involves gear swaps forces you to close all menus first, in addition to having to open them in the first place. Secondly, using recast macros adds additional delays, between firing off the macro and reading the chat log. Those using controllers have extra delays as they have to actually "navigate" to the recast macros first. Thirdly, anything involving the interface is prone to slowdowns if your FPS drops when a large number of people is present. These delays may appear trivial but when you fail to fire off a Barspell or Shield Bash in time because you were in an unrelated menu checking on recast timers, it starts to get annoying.

If you can live with that, more power to you. But it's undeniably more convenient and in many cases faster to simply have a small transparent display in a corner of the screen showing you all recast timers at all times in real time. It's a bit silly to pretend that it's not better, because it pretty much is.

[Tickmeoff]

TParty
Distance
Recast
Light Luggage
Time Stamp
Draw Distance
SS Organizer
Console BG
Plastic Surgeon
Status Timer


Pretty much the default ones that come bundled with Windower.

[hexx]

Originally Posted by Armando

It's viable but far from ideal. For starters, gear swaps aren't possible from within menus so any action that involves gear swaps forces you to close all menus first, in addition to having to open them in the first place. Secondly, using recast macros adds additional delays, between firing off the macro and reading the chat log. Those using controllers have extra delays as they have to actually "navigate" to the recast macros first. Thirdly, anything involving the interface is prone to slowdowns if your FPS drops when a large number of people is present. These delays may appear trivial but when you fail to fire off a Barspell or Shield Bash in time because you were in an unrelated menu checking on recast timers, it starts to get annoying.

If you can live with that, more power to you. But it's undeniably more convenient and in many cases faster to simply have a small transparent display in a corner of the screen showing you all recast timers at all times in real time. It's a bit silly to pretend that it's not better, because it pretty much is.

Oh I never said they were BETTER on the contrary, but it also leads to laziness on the players part because what happens if "oh no, my plugins arent working!" People rely on them too much, and if for whatever reason they arent working, people cant function and do their job appropriately. Thats just my view of course. Im and NIN and PLD tank, and I do mighty well without them, altho im sure they'd make my job a lot easier.

[Murphie]

I won't deny that plugins of this sort do help make the game more efficient, and I completely agree that many of them should be a part of the game natively. But being a console gamer (not by choice, exactly) right now has forced me to make things work within the constraints of the system as it stands. And I do pretty well, honestly. Could I be doing better? Sure. But I don't mind.

What worries me is that more and more these plugins may find themselves becoming required by the playerbase. I don't want to find my progress in the game stymied by a lack of plugins.

Then again, maybe that won't ever happen.

[Taskmage]

Originally Posted by hexx

it also leads to laziness on the players part because what happens if "oh no, my plugins arent working!" People rely on them too much, and if for whatever reason they arent working, people cant function and do their job appropriately.

This is essentially my rationale and why I stay away from plugins that alter the way I play the game. If I hop over to the PS2 or another PC without windower and/or plugins set up I don't want to feel lost or handicapped.

[hexx]

Originally Posted by Murphie

What worries me is that more and more these plugins may find themselves becoming required by the playerbase. I don't want to find my progress in the game stymied by a lack of plugins.

Then again, maybe that won't ever happen.

This right here. I've already been denied by a few of the "l33t" endgame shells on my server due to the fact that I play on Xbox and dont have some of those said plugins. Funny how it works, seeing as to how ive seen some of those other "l33t" endgame tanks and DDs suck ass even WITH their plugins and such. But again, I dont deny their usefulness, i just dont wanna end up like one of those people who rely TOO MUCH on them.

[IfritnoItazura]

I think Murphie hit on something important. While I don't particularly care if my unwillingness to use plug-ins (or Windower) hinders myself (like I really want to join an HNM LS...), it's worth remembering not everyone can easily use those cheat tools, and it's not right to expect people to use them in any case. The plug-in users should at least remember that the rest of us don't know your TP/MP/recast timer conditions unless you tell us.

* * *

I probably have the strangest reason for not liking Windower and plug-ins: my sister plays on PS2, and I don't want to any feature within the game environment she can't have. Heck, just knowing there are console players makes me feel that way.

That said, I did use Windower at one point--for IME plug-in. I wanted what every JP player has: the ability to enter Japanese text. Then, I realized shortly that everything was logged--probably including which type of client I log in with and every /t, /s, /p, and /l I use. That means typing in Japanese in-game with an NA client gives SE all the proof I am using a third party tool. Ended up never typing in Japanese anyway, and just used Windower so I wouldn't need a second computer up to use Firefox.

The day SE implemented windowed mode, I stopped using Windower (even with the funny coloring and all). I can play FFXI. I have my Firefox. At the same time. That's more than good enough for me.

(I think I'll send SE another suggestion to unlock the Japanese text entry feature for NA client. I still would like to be allowed to slowly pound out a few badly butchered Japanese sentences every so often.)

[Taskmage]

I believe the reason there's no JP input support on the NA client has to do with the licensing of the IME or somesuch. It's a legal/region issue rather than a technical or support one.

And to hexx, no matter how far an ass travels he will never be a horse. Some people are just bad players and no amount of tools you give them will change that.

[hexx]

Originally Posted by Taskmage

I believe the reason there's no JP input support on the NA client has to do with the licensing of the IME or somesuch. It's a legal/region issue rather than a technical or support one.

And to hexx, no matter how far an ass travels he will never be a horse. Some people are just bad players and no amount of tools you give them will change that.

LOL found my new quote for the month of june thanks to you

[Mcinnis]

Originally Posted by Murphie

What worries me is that more and more these plugins may find themselves becoming required by the playerbase. I don't want to find my progress in the game stymied by a lack of plugins.

For sure man. I agree completely with everything you said in your post.

Plugins that become "required" is a fear of mine as well. Compare it to, and dare I say, WoW. Addons made the game very unique, and added a lot of utility to the game. They also ruined it. Nowadays any bumbling idiot wearing a plastic helmet foaming out of the mouth could do anything in the game from leveling, questing, pvp, and endgame with the use of a simple addon package that can be installed for you with a single click!

Now I don't see FFXI going down that route with what is available right now. The more popular ones I also agree should already be implemented by Square. However an auto navigation plugin, if ever made, would absolutely destroy the game for me. I get angry when people /follow me through zones they are unfamiliar with, then cry at a later time when they are lost and don't know the way. Aside from that. Getting around in ffxi is a huge part of the game. I wouldn't use such a plugin, however I would be disheartened to see so many idiots taking easy street, and not going through the process of getting maps, or learning the way to places and such.

That's just me. In end, I'm ok with plugins that enhance the game, not ones that enable dumb people to be even dumber.

BTW I use Recast, TParty, and Lightluggage. ^__^

[Raydeus]

I'd say Drawdistance, SpellCast 2.30 for the extended macro lines (with SCL simple macros) and Silence.

Oh and the console background one.

I don't think I would ever use anything beyond that.

Maybe one that made the compass look bigger and clearer. Does one like that exist?

[Omniblast]

Cancel
G15Binder
Recast
Spellcast

I also modified my g15 binds so that:
1 button is always the level 70 blood pact for whichever avatar I'm using,
1 button is always a healing buff,
1 button is always a offensive buff,
1 button is always a low level physical attack
1 button is always a magical attack.

No matter which avatar. It saves me a ton of time instead of having to switch buttons around and the correct keypresses.

If the G15Binder ever broke. I would quit. That has been my life saver playing Summoner. It's made button pressing so much easier.

[bungiefan]

Originally Posted by Taskmage

I believe the reason there's no JP input support on the NA client has to do with the licensing of the IME or somesuch. It's a legal/region issue rather than a technical or support one.

And to hexx, no matter how far an ass travels he will never be a horse. Some people are just bad players and no amount of tools you give them will change that.

PS2 version uses ATOK's IME, which SE has to license for every copy of the game that they sell that can use it. They can't just unlock it on the PS2 version without paying that fee. PC version uses the IME built into Windows, but that would make the NA PC version able to do something the NA console versions can't without SE paying more fees, and it's like $60-100 a license for ATOK's software. ALso, there's the matter that if they did unlock it, they'd suddenly have to worry about players acceidentally hitting the keyboard shortcut to toggle the IME on and off, and if they don't understand how Japanese text input or the language works, or how the IME even works to change modes, they're suddenly typing gibberish they can't understand themselves, and are stuck in the mode making a tech support call to SE. The Japanese FFXI manuals include about a four page section on how to use the IME, but the American ones don't, and a lot of the information doesn't need to be stated to the Japanee because they have an intuition about their language that explains a lot about the IME to them. SE would have to do a major post to their site and to the POL Viewer to explain the IME, and it wouldn't necessarily be accessible in-game, especially on a console, for reference. It's a big can of worms they don't want to open, and they figure if you know enough Japanese to communicate in it, you kow enough to use the Japanese client and deal with an entirely Japanese interface, so buy the client if you want it. Also, Japanese prejudice against gaijin...

[Elwynn]

Originally Posted by bungiefan

but that would make the NA PC version able to do something the NA console versions can't without SE paying more fees

So?

ALso, there's the matter that if they did unlock it, they'd suddenly have to worry about players acceidentally hitting the keyboard shortcut to toggle the IME on and off,

Actually they wouldn't have to worry about that, because most users would not have the IME installed and enabled, much less even know how to enable it.

Also, Japanese prejudice against gaijin...

Well, there is that.

[Shirai]

Plugins I use:

SSorganizer - Handy to have the screenshots organized per zone and character I play although I'll probably be goingback to Fraps soon.
Timestamp - Less useful now but sure was handy to get an accurate ToD when I still hunted (H)NMs.
Distance - Max distance is usually just the right distance to stay away from a mob's AoE while still maintaining the ability to hurt it or keep my tanks alive. (Depending what role I play)
TParty - Seeing the mob's HP percentage is just plain handy, don't really care about seeing my party members' TPs as 90% of the events we do we don't skillchain anyway.
Recast - Excellent plugin, nothing to add for a reason which is not obvious.
Light Luggage - obvious reasons.
Draw Distance - The game just looks that much better with it.

Lastly, probably my biggest cheat:
Scripted Macros - Aside from me having absolutely limited XML knowledge or I would have ran spellcast 6 lines is absolutely insufficient for 90% of my macros.
One script containing a Blood pact command consists between 15 to 20 lines of text with gearswaps alone surrounding that command.
(BP -Delay set => Gear for the specific BP => Back to Perpetuation set => release back into my idle set.)
A weapon skill macro for my nin or even lolmeleewhm consists of at least 10 gearswaps and then there's my ever growing and changing HMP set for my mage jobs...