[Armando]

Ryoii, I take it back. Today I got into a party. I had time, and I wanted to try out my Joyeuse in EXP, so I accepted. About an hour in, I start to regret going /WAR, and the reason is Joyeuse itself. I'm getting TP so fast, that I can very easily WS three or four times in the three minutes of Berserk's duration. My WS were also somewhat weaker, but that was to be expected. Basically, I would WS so often that applying Berserk to two WS didn't mean as much as it did back when I'd use a normal sword.

Because of that, and since Double Attack's benefits were halved, I decided to go back and try /RDM. Didn't regret it. I kept on eating sushi and wearing DD gear. I didn't buff mid-fight, but we killed quick enough that starting fights with Stoneskin and Blink was still a significant advantage. Of course, Phalanx was up 24/7. Enspells were kind of bleh though. I barely had time to buff between pulls, and I was getting plenty of resists. /RDM's Magic Defense Bonus was also nice since we were fighting nothing but Imps and Spongilla Flies.

EDIT: Oh, yes, I should point out I had a THF that was dropping 800 damage Eviscerations, so I barely had to cast anything aside from Flash and Cure (which I had to use because the healers were being a bit slow, and Silena keeps them really busy.)

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

It just makes me happy to see PLD/RDM tanking. I would think it such a strong and fun combo. I wish you luck with merit parties. /cheer

THF really should get more love. If it lets all the other damage dealers go all out without fear of taking hits, does it really hurt having a THF?

My experiences in a trio have shown SA and TA to be waisted with a WS once THF obtains Assassin. They are extremely powerful alone (300+ DMG each), and this frees the THF up for pulling and using WS at 100 TP. Please do me a favor and next time ask your THF to not stack TA with a WS. I'd really appreciate your perspective on how necessary the extra damage is to holding hate.

PS: How are you doing on maxing out Stoneskin? Have you obtained a Stone Gorget? How much damage per hit on average are you taking with Phalanx?

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

Enmity from Damage Dealt Update

Lv16 Warchief Vatgit: Damage Dealt x ~5.31 = CE Gained

I'm at a loss for what other enemies to try.

[Armando]

A Lv.30-ish enemy would be nice, since there's a huge gap right now in our numbers between Lv.16 and 45. But more than that, I'd like to see a Lv.80 enemy's enmity numbers.

And even more than that, I'd like to see Cure testing. Or Trick Attack testing. Wink wink, nudge nudge.

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

I should be able to find an enemy in the 30s easily enough:

Goblin Bounty Hunter - 32
Korroloka Leech - 32 (NIN Quest)
Forger - 33 (SAM Quest)
Knight Crab - 35 (Jugner Forest)
Porphyrion - 36 (Upper Delkfutt's Tower)

I might take some time to figure out Cure enmity against a Lv75 target this weekend.

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

Here are my results from testing Cure and Cure II on a Lv75 target with a Lv1 enemy:

Enmity from Healing a Lv75 Player
CE Gained ~ HP Healed x 0.7222
VE Gained ~ HP Healed x 4.2222

The current belief is that enemy level is not a factor. I'll attempt to verify this over the weekend.

[Armando]

Awesome, thanks. What level was the mob? You should take that into account just in case.

[Lmnop]

In case anyone else is as behind on the times as me, just thought I'd throw a post on this thread to point out that Chapters 7 and 8 of this epic saga are in.

Chapter 8 is cure enmity :D

Kanican - Enmity Testing (Part VIII)

[Lunaryn]

There was some discussion of the implications of part 7 in another thread here, but I hadn't seen part 8 yet.

(Specifically, people were bringing up the whole learning when to log out so as not to exceed the hate line as BLM thing, when part 7 shows that this actually does not work, unless the BLM actually had the highest hate when logging out.)

[Armando]

A 6 to 1 ratio of VE to CE? That's not cool. One more reason why all-out-turtle PLD fails in general situations.

[Callisto]

Just for lulz and such, not sure what to do with the idea, but LS leader brought PLD/DRK to main tank Dynamis-Beaucedine on Sunday, and it appeared to work very well for him. He seemed to do just as well holding hate as usual, though I'm incredibly busy during Dynamis and couldn't pay close attention.

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

Found this interesting:

Lv75 Player v. Lv75 Enemy

Damage Dealt Enmity (rough numbers)
1.54 CE & 4.62 VE per HP (3x multiplier)

Healing Enmity
0.727 CE & 4.36 VE per HP (6x multiplier)

Also I posted a revised formula on the Blue Gartr forums:
CE/DMG ~ 128 / ( Enemy Level + 8 )

However, I'm curious if I just messed up on my numbers and the damage dealt CE ratios are actually just double the ratios for HP healed with half the multiplier for VE. I don't find it likely since that means I made a major mistake against the Lv16 enemy, but I'm returning after 6 months away and plan to get around to testing again.

[Lmnop]

Originally Posted by Lunaryn

There was some discussion of the implications of part 7 in another thread here, but I hadn't seen part 8 yet.

(Specifically, people were bringing up the whole learning when to log out so as not to exceed the hate line as BLM thing, when part 7 shows that this actually does not work, unless the BLM actually had the highest hate when logging out.)

I just didn't see a Part 7 on the OP so I mentioned it as well.
______________________________

Originally Posted by Armando

A 6 to 1 ratio of VE to CE? That's not cool. One more reason why all-out-turtle PLD fails in general situations.

Explain? You mean because the bulk of the enmity is VE, Turtling means you're just holding the monster while your VE is dwindling away?

Counterpoint: high turtle PLD gets cured less by main healer and thus, the healer generates less enmity.

Counter-counterpoint: Full-turtle barely takes less damage than hybrid. Not enough to overcome the benefits drawn from faster kill time.

Counter-counter-counter-counterpoint: I'm an idiot.

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

I've obtained the CE Multiplier for Damage Dealt for a Lv36 Enemy:
Enmity testing - Still Going! - Page 26 - Order of the Blue Gartr

Lv36 Mimas NM: 2.8561 - 2.8579 CE / DMG

I'll fool around with the formula again at work tomorrow to see if I can find a good match to this data point which I've determined so accurately.