[Arctic Wolf]

IfritnoAzura, I gave you a Thanks! for the big post. I'll be honest, I didn't read it all. This is mainly because it isn't really interesting for me anymore, I have all this knowledge in my head. Well, I mean I know what jobs I want to play.

However, I did skim through it and it looks really nice. In my opinion, this should be put on FFXIClopedia! Although, it fits here on these forums just fine. I'm definetely going to refer any new or fairly new player, who is wondering what job to play, to this thread. So, Thanks!

[Vyuru]

Uh, weren't you just making the argument that using Bar-spells - which cost more MP than the common HB triggers - were what made /RDM better than /WHM because they cast more quickly.

No.

A lvl 75 drg/whm will have 137 mp

Using Dia only as a Healing Breath trigger spell, the best a drg/whm could hope for is 137/7 = 19 Healing Breaths

A lvl 75 drg/rdm will have 118 mp

Using Elemental Bar-spells, a drg/rdm could get 118/6 = 19 as well

Using nothing but Poison, a drg/rdm could get 118/5 = 23 Healing Breaths

Since in parties nothing ever goes as planned, a drg/whm will not only be using Dia as a trigger, max # of Healing Breaths they can do goes down since Dia is the best trigger spell in terms of mp for them.

Whereas a drg/rdm's will be mixing Poison and Elemental Bar-spells, and they will be ahead of the /whm in terms of Healing Breaths.

Toss in any +mp gear and /rdm pulls farther ahead.

In the case of Refresh, a drg/whm can get enough mp for 3 Dia activated Healing Breaths in 63 seconds. In the same amount of time, a drg/rdm will get enough mp to use 4 Poison activated Healing Breaths, or 3 Barspell activated Healing Breaths, in which case they have 3 mp extra.

Might as well have called this, "Arguements I'm making against /WHM because I haven't levelled it or don't want to." All that stuff's more useful that en-spelling your lance or barspelling yourself.

In anywhere in ANY of my posts find where I said a drg/rdm should enspell their lance.

Those are all valid arguements against using /whm as a subjob for the reasons given. Find me ANY combat situation where you will need to fire off a DS+Curaga II, and as drg/whm still have 120+ mp. If the party needs a DS+Curaga II to survive, I'd have to ask why the heck is that dragoon sitting on 120+ mp? Which is only 17 mp less than a lvl 75 drg/whm gets as their max mp.

And no, you can't use a goblin bomb toss, Cursed Sphere, and probably not imps as examples because those are mobs that a drg/mage should not be main healing their party, all of those AoE attacks are too strong and it is too much of a risk that the Wyvern will die, or you will die due to being forced into using Spirit Link to keep your wyvern alive in case the mob whipes out another AoE attack.

Yes, wyvern will status cure on a WS, but it prioritizes its master first

It's happened several times now in this thread, please read my posts a little more carefully, I specified single target attacks, if only the tank is hit, then only the tank needs to have a ~na breath. Also, I have been stressing the fact that only Bar element spells should be used, so bringing up Barparalyze isn't really a good point to make. Also a 2.5 second cast time with Fast Cast isn't that high, it is the 11mp cost of Barparalyze that makes it so that you don't want to use it.

On paper, sure it sounds good to be able to toss up a Protectga II, DS+Curaga, etc. In practice though, you generally do not want to do it and the situations will rarely allow for it.

[IfritnoItazura]

Originally Posted by Arctic Wolf

IfritnoAzura,

It's more like "Ifrit no Itazura", but that's ok... I've seen worse... >_>;

Originally Posted by Arctic Wolf

In my opinion, this should be put on FFXIClopedia! Although, it fits here on these forums just fine. I'm definetely going to refer any new or fairly new player, who is wondering what job to play, to this thread. So, Thanks!

Glad you like the guide. ^_^

Aside:

Why not on FFXIclopedia?

By the way, while I am a sometime contributor on FFXIclopedia, Dreams is the appropriate place for a guide like this.

This guide is a collection of "informed opinions" rather than straight facts or verifiable formula. Plus, Wiki is about producing collaborative work amongst equals, where as I wanted strong control over tone, format, and content of this work.

Having contributed to several guides on FFXIclopedia, my opinion is that they fit uneasily within the mission of Wiki. The guides do serve the users of that Wiki, but they are opinions of individuals largely without the backing of meticulous research.

[IfritnoItazura]

OK, I'm convinced; if DRG/BLU belongs, then DRG/RDM does as well. I don't see a huge difference between how the two can solo, do small groups, or perform in full party, so if one belongs, so do another.

Thanks for straightening me out.

p.s. I reserve the right to change my mind yet again, especially if someone else has convincing arguments. >_>;

[Vyuru]

I must say that this is a very well written summary of the jobs and what can new players expect from them, it wouldn't have changed my job selection, but I'd have had a very good idea of what to expect.

Heh, when I first heard of FFXI and decided to play, my thought process was along the lines of, "They have Dragoons? And pet wyverns? And catgirls!? WHEEEEEEE!"

But I think what is really nice about this guide, is that if a player has a general idea of what they need in a party, or a fixed idea for that matter, they can look this up and get a general idea of which jobs to invite for what role.

EDIT:

OK, I'm convinced; if DRG/BLU belongs, then DRG/RDM does as well. I don't see a huge difference between how the two can solo, do small groups, or perform in full party, so if one belongs, so do another.

I think the biggest difference is that Drg/Blu gets Cocoon which is a straight up +50% Def boost, that's stronger than any +def food I know of, especially when you consider it has no +def cap. So a Drg/Blu gets their big defense boost and gets to eat their +att food too, that's pretty nice.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

COR is the premier support role Job for BLM manaburn parties, and for SMN, BST, DRG, and/or PUP based parties. It can nearly rival BRD's buff'ing in traditional, balanced parties as well as TP spam parties, though not by mimicking BRD's with roll per song. A COR's strength is at providing Job based enhancement, with unique buffs which stack with everything a BRD and/or RDM can offer. Where a COR loses out is in the debuffs, as it cannot do much besides dispel, sleep, and enhance existing debuffs applied by others--all on a shared, one minute cool down timer. To balance that, COR contributes damages a support role RDM cannot match and a BRD cannot even dream of. Note that its Wild Card is arguably the definitive overpowering two-hour ability for any support role job--so much so, it's reported end-game LS's bring Lv.1 COR's to some fights just for Wild Card. This is a young job with much of its true potential yet to be determined.

Lv.23 is the recommended level for those interested in checking out COR. By then, a player would have had access to both melee buff Phantom Rolls like Hunter's Roll (Lv.8) and Chaos Roll (Lv.14), a mage buff as in Healer's Roll (Lv.20), as well as its first pet buff Puppet Roll (Lv.23). Note that Quick Draw, COR's ability to enhance debuffs and sleep/dispel monsters, won't come until Lv.40, along with Evoker's Roll for refresh effect.

The dices are fairly cheap from NPC, so there really is no reason to be missing any Phantom Roll. Given its B rating in marksmanship, range accuracy gear and food should be standard for any COR. Elemental Cards and level appropriate bullet and gun are not optional; the consumable expenses will add up, but that's no excuse. Those players who wish to make good use out of /WHM are strongly urged consider MP gear and juices at lower levels.

Gonna submit some corrections/critiques here:

- COR's full potential for pet-based PTs is currently unknown, pet buffs are just something exclusive to the job. I'll actually get on doing some pet based PT and see if I can iron out some details.

- Quick Draw effects do not enhance BRD debuffs. All other traditional magic debuffs, including NIN's are affected by QD.

[Vyuru]

- Quick Draw effects do not enhance BRD debuffs. All other traditional magic debuffs, including NIN's are affected by QD.

That seems a bit odd, I wonder why SE would do that?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

My guess would be that its one consumable resource affecting another. Earth Shot, Slow and Hojo pull from a resource, yet Elegy consumes nothing. It should also be noted that that Slow and Hojo do not stack, while Elegy stacks with either.

I guess its just something to keep the COR + BRD combo from being too potent and to counterbalance both jobs. Though I think it fails miserably in that intention, since having both jobs in PT is still a very potent combination.

[Amele]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

I guess its just something to keep the COR + BRD combo from being too potent and to counterbalance both jobs. Though I think it fails miserably in that intention, since having both jobs in PT is still a very potent combination.

I imagine this is it - since it makes cor + brd not particularly above the curve of cor + cor or brd + brd

with additional potency to bard debuffs, cor + brd would be the only way to fly.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

COR - Enhances allies performance via random percentage bonuses based on job traits, Uses Quick Draw as a mild damage nuke which enhances enfeebles and debuffs to the matching element

I know I said this in the past, but the "debuffs to the matching element" has been proven wrong. I adjusted this error in my guide, so I thought I'd just pass it on. The elemental Quick Draws do enhance enfeebles, bringing them to a higher tier of that same enfeeble, but they do not debuff to an element like Threnody or Elemental Ninjutsu can.

[IfritnoItazura]

Changed my mind about WAR/SAM and BLM/NIN; credits/blames to Amele and Mosh.

Also clarified that SMN can get Avatar without Prime fights, and BRD can pull at earlier levels, based on Mosh's suggestion.

p.s. BBQ's info was incorporated a while back; thank you.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

COR's buffs now can generally match or exceed those of a BRD's, even the common ones between them, so BRD's only real edge is March and Horde Lullaby. Might be good to update PUP and BST info to reflect the August changes as well.

[Vyuru]

BST info to reflect the August changes as well.

/scratches head

What did beastmasters get?

[Silent Howler]

Originally Posted by Vyuru

/scratches head

What did beastmasters get?

A few things. http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics...12/detail.html But not really anything that should make the description on the first page be changed.

[IfritnoItazura]

Thanks for the reminder. I'll get to it by this weekend; planning to devote the next big chunk of free time to the Japanese-English Bard Song List from Skiewalker.