[jenova_9]

I think since we are waiting for FFXIV, it might be a good idea to share philosophies of MMORPG group structure and goal management! People perfect their skill levels and loot, but not really the bonds that make their accomplishments more meaningful. as well as the group rules that makes things fun and fair for everyone.

Well there is some key points about things:

1. Guilds/linkshells/clans are loose alliances. This results in more possible occurences where
people just exploit the guild for personal reasons. This can also happen among friends, but that depends on shared goals.

2. Goals are a source of one's desire to progress. Different goals lead
to conflicts of interest, this is what often splits a Guild apart, even though the members are a part of the same Guild, 99% of the time they are off doing their own thing unless they need help. But if others think the same way, then people won't help each other unless they get help first, and even then if they are short on time, there is possibly no contribution on their part aside from using others. This is also an issue when newcomers that are not as advanced as the older guild members need help, but naturally can't help others because they are behind, and some that get impatient end up quitting.

3. Bonds are the measurement of how much connection people have towards each other. Greater bonds lead to people doing stuff together more,
lesser bonds is less a desire to party with others. Nothing can be done about this, this just comes naturally depending on what people wanna do and if there are people they would wanna do those things with. So some sync up really well in doing stuff, while others my disagree in how they should spend the time.


So here are some problems that need solutions:

*Group/clan/guild presentation: treat each other as friends, allies or tools?

*Group/clan/guild goals: the spectrum of different levels and needs lead to different goals. How can members of all levels work things out so no one is left alone fending for themselves?

*Too close or to far? If a group does things together, sometimes people might want some breathing room to do other things, but if people always are off on their own thing, then it doesn't feel like they are part of the same organization.

*Organization. Do ranks lower the morality of a guild/group? Or do they
serve as a means of guidance so other members can look up to the leaders as guidance?

*Round Table. would a round table approach make things more fair? Should a guild/group allow each member take turns deciding what the group should do next? In some ways, it would give everyone something to achieve, instead of just leaving it to leaders to decide. And if a member can't come up with something, or they are absent, they can pass their turn to the next person.

*Friends or mercenaries? Should members treat each other like friends? or distant comrades? It's another moral dilemma. But perhaps there is a universal group structure that is fun, fair and effective we can come up with.

[Kailea]

its alittle bit to early to do this........

[Mhurron]

The only thing better then jumping the gun is jumping the gun with no information.

FFXIV revolutionizes mmorpgs

Seriously? You know what I heard, it also cures cancer and gives you super powers.

[Kailea]

Originally Posted by Mhurron

The only thing better then jumping the gun is jumping the gun with no information.


Seriously? You know what I heard, it also cures cancer and gives you super powers.

holy crap sign me up

[Pwnagraphic]

Agreed with the posts above.

But with those things said. Has anyone ever had a problem with their LS's or groups? I keep seeing people talk about immature players, and I never had any problem with any players in my time in FFXI. But I did wuit right after ToAU came out so, if it was because 360 users, I wouldn't know.

[Takelli]

My LS has seen its fair share of immature users. We had like 3 people that where obsessed over this one girl in the LS. Two others where know it all pricks (Damn... Both them and I argued every day until I got pissed and banned them. XD )). People who don't help others even though theyve been helped hundreds of times by the ls, and people who beg for money and items. My LS has seen MANY issues, but we are a close LS, and the long term members don't have any issues with the others.

[Durahansolo]

Originally Posted by Mhurron

Seriously? You know what I heard, it also cures cancer and gives you super powers.

This caused my face to smile.

Originally Posted by Pwnagraphic

I keep seeing people talk about immature players, and I never had any problem with any players in my time in FFXI.

Does the dude that we allowed into our linkshell and then figured out he bought his account count?

EDIT: After I posted this, I went to the old linkshell board, apparently the LS has fallen apart and one of the leaders claimed that "We (him and his gf) were the only ones trying to recruit people." WTFLIES And secondly what is the use of recruiting if the leaders aren't even going to be in the shell half the time. I mean sure people have HMNLS and Endgame shells, but damn everyday? After awhile it was rare that we even saw him in there at all. Anyways meh!!! When I go back to FFXI I won't even have a ls home to go to.

[Pwnagraphic]

Hmm.. I never had those problems lol. I met other LS's who had a bunch of dicks

[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by Pwnagraphic

But with those things said. Has anyone ever had a problem with their LS's or groups? I keep seeing people talk about immature players, and I never had any problem with any players in my time in FFXI. But I did wuit right after ToAU came out so, if it was because 360 users, I wouldn't know.

OMG, the stories I could tell! LOL How about the neglectful married couple that would be on vent while their kids cried for supper but they'd only yell at them? How about the couple that ended up leaving the shell after MUCH drama all because some people didn't say hello to them every time they logged on? How about the Canadian whm that cost the ls a win when he sprayed BEAR MACE in his room just because he wanted to see what it smelled like and dang near ended up in the hospital?




...........HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Ok the last one was pretty damn funny and not so much of a problem!

Originally Posted by Durahansolo

I mean sure people have HMNLS and Endgame shells, but damn everyday? After awhile it was rare that we even saw him in there at all. Anyways meh!!! When I go back to FFXI I won't even have a ls home to go to.

A lot of HNMLS's don't allow you to have another pearl on if you are in game. Things pop at all times and you have to be available whenever you are on. Also, you can't earn brown nose points in a HNMLS if you are in a social..........and those points help you score shinies! (previous statement said in a loathsome tone)

Originally Posted by Pwnagraphic

Hmm.. I never had those problems lol. I met other LS's who had a bunch of dicks

98% of the people in successful HNMLS's are nothing but a bunch of dicks.....they don't get those shinies by holding the door for other LS's lol

[Durahansolo]

Originally Posted by TheGrandMom

A lot of HNMLS's don't allow you to have another pearl on if you are in game. Things pop at all times and you have to be available whenever you are on.

I know endgame shells don't let you have a linkshell on during events, but I did not know that certain ones make you stay in them 24/7. Now we see why Durahan never does endgame events.

Originally Posted by TheGrandMom

How about the Canadian whm that cost the ls a win when he sprayed BEAR MACE in his room just because he wanted to see what it smelled like and dang near ended up in the hospital?

Was your WHM Peter Griffin? I can't see somebody doing something that stupid, but apparently after he sprayed that Bear Mace, he couldn't see or breathe anything either.

[DakAttack]

LS's will come and go, but friends will last forever for a long time.

<3 Kajidoh, Ecto

[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by Durahansolo

Was your WHM Peter Griffin? I can't see somebody doing something that stupid, but apparently after he sprayed that Bear Mace, he couldn't see or breathe anything either.

I'm not familiar with Peter Griffin's bear mace incident, I must hit up Google. LOL But yes, our whm was hilarious on vent. We had been plugging along for hours so I guess he was getting a bit bored and started futzing around. He said he didn't spray much but that it was just overwhelming. He did not use push to talk so we could hear the commotion in the background. Before we knew what happened, we were extremely concerned! We thought there was a fire or break in or even worse. But then someone in the ls called him and it took the guy 5 minutes to tell us what happened on vent because he was laughing so hard. It was like "HAHAHAHAHA B.....HAHAHAHHA BE......HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA BEA.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA BEAR......" It was one of the best times I have ever had in game in the end. We were still laughing and joking about it 4 hours later. Knifey and the infamous bear mace.....a classic!

[Kailea]

Originally Posted by TheGrandMom

I'm not familiar with Peter Griffin's bear mace incident, I must hit up Google. LOL But yes, our whm was hilarious on vent. We had been plugging along for hours so I guess he was getting a bit bored and started futzing around. He said he didn't spray much but that it was just overwhelming. He did not use push to talk so we could hear the commotion in the background. Before we knew what happened, we were extremely concerned! We thought there was a fire or break in or even worse. But then someone in the ls called him and it took the guy 5 minutes to tell us what happened on vent because he was laughing so hard. It was like "HAHAHAHAHA B.....HAHAHAHHA BE......HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA BEA.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA BEAR......" It was one of the best times I have ever had in game in the end. We were still laughing and joking about it 4 hours later. Knifey and the infamous bear mace.....a classic!

wow...just....wow ;p

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Part of what you have to do to get rid of the high school popularity contests that are MMORPGs are to actually not let those bearing high school popularity desires in. The single worst kind of personality to join an MMO are the brats that want to be an online celebrity.

They are easy to spot, too. Either they have no initiative whatsoever, but enough to cry about people not helping them or they are charismatics whose greed/ineptitude eventually becomes apparent to anyone with a lick of sense. The former snuffs themselves out, but the latter tends to thrive because they can feign traits like leadership, knowledge and has the ability to make rules. If they can do those three things, then the people not out to be stars, uet also have no initiative will follow them.

I, however, will eventually get in trouble because I ask questions and its in my nature to. When you don't value virtual widgets as much as having a good time, you start to pick out who's just like you and who's just trying to achieve thier depraved high school popularity fantasy with ease.

Ask yourself why there are so many goddamn retards arguing with each other on BG. BG started out with guys who had a genuine interest in testing out things and posting information and it attracted people who wanted to be influential in the game, not everyone who came out had the same interest in sharing information and doing tests, but wanting to look smart since its hard for them to be smart.

Those people think all the testing is about math and that's not entirely true, much of it is just observation and the basic scientific process. There's no math to what aggros and why or what mob has an advantage over the other or why we kneel to Odin so he doesn't one shot us all. Much of it is found out through variables and controls. But these people are so hard up about the math and official word, yet they're the same twit that aggros goblins in Valkkurm and dies when leveling a new job. They get the smart ones once in a blue moon, but those with no observation skills pretty much all the time.

Its entirely possible to be endgame smart but stupid in the game otherwise. I tend to find the ones bringing their endgame egos to Yhoator Jungle EXP parties to be the most hilarious people in the game. A sense of entitlement is usually the first aspect of thier personality to bloom, they have a sense of moral duty to bully that other party they didn't see while settling in to go somewhere else.

I remember this fuckwit I'll just call Luke that couldn't be bothered to look up that the first beetle camp in Crawler's nest supports two parties. So righteous was his anger that he decided to not only tell his LS blacklist people from the LBR LS - none of whom did anything, I was just on the shell at the time - but threatened to come back and kill all the beetles on his 75 THF.

Ooooh, I'm shakin'. Luke, I am your bother.

So I told the party to keep EXPing and we agreed to disband in 15 minutes, which would be about the time it would take to come all the way back down there after gearing up and such. We escaped out right as he got there. He wasted his time, we wasted none of ours. He got to waste a half hour of his PT's time gearing up twice just to try and chase us out. I hear you get great EXP for hour giving your PT a half hour of downtime.

Turns out Luke leads a bush league endgame shell. Are there people that look up to him. I'm totally sure there are. He's thier stepping stone to getting stuff. Have they seen his mighty THF anger? Yeah, particularly because when you're leader you're allowed to come THF, you know, instead of something useful or letting someone else have fun and be the THF. Nope, being the THF is serious business when you're the leader, biggest part of any event.

But getting back to being a bit more serious, as long as you have these brand-name MMOs, your going to have people like this in them. Oh sure, something like Aion has a lot of hype right now, but kids like brand names and that's not one. Games like that or LOTRO or EQ will generally consist of adult players the higher up you get.

Game design plays a role as well, FFXI has greedy players because the system at large isn't that generous and doesn't have points of pressure like armor degradation. These change player attitudes notably.

FFXIV's design may bring some maturity to the mix, but its all in how its implemented.

[jenova_9]

very good discussion! yea that is a very good point that how generous the mmorpg is, could determine how mature players are and their level of needs/desperation to reach their goals and other factors.

How about the couple that ended up leaving the shell after MUCH drama all because some people didn't say hello to them every time they logged on?

LOL!!!!!!!!!!

oh ya I myself was one LS member who no one said hello to (well okay during my 3rd year with a new LS, a few actually did.)
But ya, I was never bothered by no one saying hello, it simply displayed how distant I was from the rest of the LS, and that was natural in something like FFXI cause you had your veterans and endgame players can are capable of helping each other and doing high level things together, and then there were the cadets, which nothing can be done about that.

my last LS was better, but ya, I think with FFXIV possibly depending less on each other for some things, that makes it more reason to party up because everyone is more capable in accomplishing things, and with a group, they can make even faster progress. of course FFXIV also has the advantage because it's new and will be fresh with so many on the same league for a while, but ya, I just been thinking of ways an organized group/clan can work better together so that
they do stuff together more and no one gets left out, or at least any other members would get their turn to have a good time and get further.

==============

here are good inspirational quotes to learn from! These might be the keys to being a part of a great organization!


""I think deciding how to run a guild is kind of like deciding how to run a company, and I think the diversity that exists is a good thing. A lot of people seem to join a guild just because they're invited, and are afraid, but I don't think there's anything wrong with "shopping around." You'll enjoy your gaming experience a lot more if you play with people who are like you."
==========================

I don't think there is an ultimate solution for how guilds should be run. Guilds are as different as the people that make them up, and different types of players will want to seek out different types of guilds.

I have been in quite a variety of guilds (mostly in WoW) and here are some of the main types as I see it:

The Hardcore Guild: The Pvp Guild: The Casual Guild: and The Mixed Guild:"

===========================

"Hardcore is the only way to go imo. If you really want to experience a game like this, especially when endgame pops up, you need to make a major investment.

If your guild wants to be number one, get claims, get gear you can either have people who play all the time or have a **** tonne of people.

The problem with having a lot of people is, of course, more mouths to feed and then you really don't get what you want.

Keep it small, elite and hardcore!"
=============================
(this last one only applys to players that make a top level guild for helping lower levels.
in turn, it may also help the community.)

""In my first MMO, a small 2d isometric game from Korea, I was one of the early players and as such, I was quite high levelled and well equipped. I helped form a guild called 'The NHG Knights' (NHG = Newbie Helper Group). The entire purpose of this guild was a stepping stone guild.

We took in new players - actual new players, from level 1 - and helped them along. They knew the limitations of the guild (we only had a few high levels) and we knew full well they would leave. The entire purpose of the guild was helping players when they needed it most, the early levels.

As members levelled and eventually left, they joined more powerful guilds. After these guild become populated by our ex-members, our guild itself was helped out in turn by these more powerful guilds.

The games equivalent to raids were too hard for us on our own so we were helped. As we dealt with a lot of lower levels our item stores were always running dry but items were always donated to us. Our guild members were always helped by others simply because they were an NHG Knight. The guild leaders (Actually my Mother and her partner), were for a long time were among the most respected members of the game, even PKers (Player killers) would pass them by. Infact, some of the well known tyrants of the game would actually help any NHG Knight they saw, because many were Knights to start with.

The point to this is that The NHG Knights worked because they had a single goal that was feasible. They helped newbies. A single goal, a single guild but build a network of allied guilds and you have a winner. Most games don't allow for this due to the PvP aspect but it can work."
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