[Takelli]

Originally Posted by DakAttack

Please, don't contribute to Armando's headache.

XD But its what job would make FFXIV perfect lol

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Feba

I'd kinda like to see SMN implemented as more of a 'transformer' class. As in, you become the avatar, instead of having it as a pet. Somewhat similar to the summoning in FFX or KH. Keep the mythology, while still being able to keep it from getting too broken.

You mean the summon replaced the party in FFX, not that they became the summon. Players becoming a summon would be more like Terra from FFVI.

At any rate, I think we're going to have to learn more about "The Twelve" before we can really speculate on the nature of summons.

I've never really seen a game where things get summoned and they're not underpowered or overpowered. In SMT they're usually underpowered compared to the summoner - until you get really high-tier, like Metatron or Beelzebum. In FF, they're generally far more powerful than the summoner, so much so that the summoner usually has to take a major hit in the HP department.

The games that have made summons that fall in the middle are usually still underpowered in contrast to the player characters, sometimes to the point of not even being useful.

This is why I think a more symbiotic relationship is preferable. Think FFVIII or Persona. This allows the summon to have a use, but not strictly as an NPC, but more as part of the player's arsenal which and endow them with specific abilities and stat parameters. Even Dissidia kinda takes on this approach to summons. They're there, just not in the big mafakin' airstrike kind of way.

[Malacite]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

At any rate, I think we're going to have to learn more about "The Twelve" before we can really speculate on the nature of summons.

Well we already know about 1 of them, Nymeia the Spinner (Spider God?) and SE did say that this time around the Summons will play a pivotal role in the plot this time. I wonder if they are going to take an FF12 route (entirely new summons with passing references to the series' classics) or stick with the fan favorites (or maybe even a mix?)

[Takelli]

Originally Posted by Malacite

Well we already know about 1 of them, Nymeia the Spinner (Spider God?) and SE did say that this time around the Summons will play a pivotal role in the plot this time. I wonder if they are going to take an FF12 route (entirely new summons with passing references to the series' classics) or stick with the fan favorites (or maybe even a mix?)

Going about the FF12 rout would be nice with new summons/Gods, but people have come to know and love the current summons/Gods. They should use the original summons, but with new Gods, and the summons being an avatar for the Gods, then they will most likely use the twelve.

I liked the way they had FF12 summons used. You had a single person with the summon out and you fought along side it(But they where kinda weak IMO). That's how they should be in FFXI, but you don't. You summon it, air strike, then release. It should be more like you summon it, and it fights along side your allies, and depending on what element the summon is of, it increases their allies stats in battle.

[pixiehawk]

Originally Posted by Malacite

Well we already know about 1 of them, Nymeia the Spinner (Spider God?)

I got more the feeling she was Fate, the weaver, etc.

[xTempestx]

I plan on leveling magic skills (white/black/whatever) until I can do some sort of summoning. I hope they find a better way to implement it than they did in FFXI. Summoners shouldnt be curetanks.

[Pwnagraphic]

Originally Posted by pixiehawk

I got more the feeling she was Fate, the weaver, etc.

A spider summon!! I am going to go start a rumor on another forum that the Twelve are all summons.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Pwnagraphic

A spider summon!! I am going to go start a rumor on another forum that the Twelve are all summons.

Um, why exactly?

[Ziero]

Originally Posted by jenova_9

Ninjas deserved to be redeemed and brought back to their awesomeness in past FFs.
the Ninjas skillset in FFTactics was molded to fit that battle system, but it basically has everything a Ninja should have in FFXIV (well Ninjutsu would be nice too! but no Ninja Tools! Learn from Edge in FFXIV! He didn't need tools to use ninja magic! We should just need the scroll to learn it, and just MP to use it.)
Ninja - Final Fantasy Tactics Job Classes - Caves of Narshe

yes ninjas always draw lots of attention and sales!

Samurai had all the fun in FFXI and were lucky they were designed to play as they should,
Ninjas need to be awesome this time in FFXIV! And don't turn Thiefs into Ninja hybrids or Ninjas into abused tanks!
Ninja =/= Thief. even though FF1 Thief upgraded into a Ninja, they shouldn't be treated as one and the same.

Ninjas have originated in the series since the first Final Fantasy. They deserve to be in FFXIV as much as any other basic job style. And we shouldn't have to wait until an expansion to be able to become a Ninja!
RPGClassics.com - Final Fantasy

I'm positive SE will make Ninja available in FFXIV, even if they are named something different like Shadow Dancer or something.
Dual-Wield, Throw, Ninjutsu, are a must. They should also be one of the best damage dealing types.

How was Ninja bad in FFXI? If anything Ninja in FFT was far worse, having most of it's abilities be more or less useless (you really wanted to sit there throwing swords and lances at people?) and it's only real strength, and it's only good ability, coming from it's speed and ability to hit things twice. And most Ninjas in FF history have used item based "throwing" attacks and "spells". From the magic elemental "balls" from Tactics to needing weapons to "throw" in FFV, FFVI and FFVII. If anything the concept of nin from FFXI improved upon the idea of Ninjas, giving them an actual unique and useful set of abilities as well as a unique way to use those abilities. What really screwed over Nin was their Tier III elemental spells and how utterly horrible they were implemented. But for the first time in FF history, Ninja was more then just a job that could hit twice in one round, and that was great.

Plus, if Ninja was such a good seller that it's presence alone brings in sales and players that would have otherwise ignored the game (p.s. it doesn't) wouldn't it be better for SE to release the class in an expansion, since the game itself already has loads of buzz and potential players.

Originally Posted by Feba

I'd kinda like to see SMN implemented as more of a 'transformer' class. As in, you become the avatar, instead of having it as a pet. Somewhat similar to the summoning in FFX or KH. Keep the mythology, while still being able to keep it from getting too broken.

That would make it a Morpher, not a Summoner. Though I will admit, Morpher is a fairly rare job in the FF universe, something that should be used more often.

Originally Posted by Malacite

Well we already know about 1 of them, Nymeia the Spinner (Spider God?) and SE did say that this time around the Summons will play a pivotal role in the plot this time. I wonder if they are going to take an FF12 route (entirely new summons with passing references to the series' classics) or stick with the fan favorites (or maybe even a mix?)

...Spider God? You really didn't catch that painfully obvious reference to the Fates, the Greek deities who wove the fabric of existence for all things, including the other gods?

The way I see it, they're going to go with more of a Greek/Roman set up of gods, a Pantheon of higher beings who each represent different aspects of the world and existence itself while the Summons (if they're in the game) would be more like physical manifestations of the elements around the world.

[Armando]

That would make it a Morpher, not a Summoner.

It's not a morpher any more than Pokemon Trainer is morpher in Brawl.

Just because the player is given control of the summon instead of his player character it doesn't mean the summoner morphed into an avatar. That was the case of FFX, ignoring the fact that you didn't just "surrender" the summoner, but the rest of the party too.

[Pwnagraphic]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

Um, why exactly?

Cause..

[jenova_9]

Ninjas were powerhouses in FFV also. shurikens did extreme damage, and decent prices. the scrolls were awesome and damaged enemies really well. and then there was the dual wielding. oh ya they also had great abilities like smoke bomb, image (like utsusemi but more balanced), etc.

[Pwnagraphic]

You love Ninja huh?

[Ziero]

Originally Posted by Armando

It's not a morpher any more than Pokemon Trainer is morpher in Brawl.

Just because the player is given control of the summon instead of his player character it doesn't mean the summoner morphed into an avatar. That was the case of FFX, ignoring the fact that you didn't just "surrender" the summoner, but the rest of the party too.

Going by the term "transformer class" it sounds more like Morpher, where the Summoner turns into the monster. Though I guess he contradicts his own terminology by comparing it to FFX, but that was more of a "replacement" then a "transformation".

As far as I'm concerned, having the Summon as a pet is still the best way to go. Just give it more control over the pets actions and give each pet a varied array of abilities and uses. Keep the Summoner itself fairly weak while the pet does all the work, because really that's how a Summoner is supposed to be. FFXIV doesn't need to give it's spear wielders a pet dragon, and chances are we won't see a Pup like job at all. So all the best concepts from those two classes could be merged into Smn to make it a more active, balanced job. With no auto attack, and a direct need to input a command for every action you take, giving each possible Summon/Avatar/Spirit/Esper/Whateverthehellthey'llbecalledinFFXIV it's own set of possible commands would instantly remove the fire and forget aspect plaguing FFXI's smns. The "pet" will be more like a tool, a weapon for their master to command.

[jenova_9]

well Morpher would be the next best thing for Summoner class options. FF never had a Morpher job before.

Originally Posted by Pwnagraphic

You love Ninja huh?

well ya but I also like holy knights with capes. FFT had a Holy Knight, but she didn't wear a cape. but the normal knights did.
oh yeah and Temple Knight. and Arc Knight. Divine Knights wore robes/cloaks. But ya I like capes. but cloaks are kewl too as long as the
hood is removeable. :p

honestly I would place most Knight jobs on the same level as Ninja as a favorite (except dark knight and onion knight)