[Gobo]

Ok less bitchy about AV now k?

Here's something to shut you up, a summation of the Summit info and (incomplete) Stat boxes on 7 Mythic (Nyzul relic) weapons:

- The ability to rapidly exchange campaign tags will be adjusted to discourage players who spam songs and self-buffs to gain experience in campaign.

- A security feature is being planned similar to the Account Authenticator device created by Blizzard.

- Dynamis costs will be reduced in next version update.

- An addition to the battle system is being planned to encourage melee and mage jobs to work together to coordinate attacks.

- The development team is considering revealing hidden food effects, but some effects will remain hidden.

- Campaign in the cities is intended to reflect the harsh times of the Crystal War, but adjustments are planned to keep certain NPCs, such as the warp NPC, from disappearing during battle.

- More job adjustments are planned, but no adjustments are planned for puppetmaster.

- Square Enix is working on improving the account recovery process.

- There are no plans to enhance the Square Enix-sanctioned windower.

- Winning numbers for the Mog Bonanza lottery were randomly chosen, and the process was strictly supervised to prevent any improprieties. Participation in the lottery was a huge success and the event will likely be repeated next year.

- A new scheme is being created to help low- and mid-level players gain experience.

- No immediate plans are in place to increase the number of weapons players can merit.

- Group 1 merits are planned to be added soon for Scholar and Dancer.

- Additional rewards will not be added to notorious monster bosses on floors 20, 40, 60 and 80 of Nyzul Isle assaults.

- The development team is against the concept of transferring content IDs because the feature could possibly be exploited by RMT.

- It may be possible in the future for players to change their faces and hairstyles.

- Chocobos will soon be added to the WoTG areas.

- A hint is in the PlayOnline topics banner about new relic armor for recently added job.

- More sellable gear is planned to be introduced as the RMT threat declines.

-The Alexandrite cost for the new weapons will be reduced

-A battlefield will be added as the final task for the Nyzul weapons

-There will be a way of obtaining the new weapon skills without having to complete a Nyzul relic, this method will be available to most players.

-A new bonus effect, Aftermath, will be added. It will be granted to players who use a new weapon skill in conjunction with having a Nyzul relic equiped.

-TP will affect the potency of Aftermath effects, not the duration

Now I am gonna repeat this many many times, THE STATS ON THESE WEAPONS ARE NOT FINAL. THE STATS ON THESE WEAPONS ARE NOT FINAL. They are NOT meant to be the strongest weapons in the game, but enhance the unique aspects of the jobs.

FFXIclopeida: DRG, Ryunohige:



"Enhances Jump" makes Jump a 100% critical hit

Stractics: PUP, Kenkonken:



Too hard to test the boost to Martial Arts
Never summoned automaton to test overload reduction

PUPs new WS is 6 hit

Alla: RDM, Murgleis:



"Enhances Convert" reduces HP lost from Convert to 50% (MP restored is still equal to 100% HP)

RDM weapon skill is called Death Blossom

JeuxOnline(French): WHM, Yagrush



"Enhances Divine Viel" makes Divine Viel permanently active (i.e all -na spells and Erase are -ga with it equiped)

WHM WS is called Mystic Boon. Spirit Taker type attack, MP restored based on damage done.

Onlinewelten(German): COR, Death Penalty



Couldn't test Quick Draw enhancement, as S-E gave them no cards!

Said Aftermath bonus to ranged attacks was very noticeable

Warcry: DNC, Terpsichore:



"Enhances Steps Effect" gave an extra Finishing Move for every successful step landed

Was not able to chain new WS with Binding Flourish (not implemented yet?)

IGNVault: THF, Vjara:

(wtf i saw an image like 2 hrs ago)

DMG:31 Delay:200
Enhances "Sneak Attack" and "Trick Attack" effects
Aftermath: Increases Att./Acc.
Occasionally attacks twice

No info was given, collected on how it enhances Sneak and Trick attacks
THF WS is called Mandalic Stab

Again these are not the final stats on the weapons. They still have not even been looked at by QA (the people at the summit were the first to see/play with them). They could change, they could not.

[Taskmage]

Originally Posted by Yellow Mage

I have to overwhelmingly agree with Feba here: if you're to stupid to solve said puzzle, don't say it's . . . look, there's actually an Aesop about this, you know.

Sour grapes is about denying the value of a reward you're unable to obtain. Nobody's saying Ninurta's Sash is probably bad anyway. What's stupid is hanging grapes out of a fox's reach and calling it good fun.

Originally Posted by Gobo

stuff

Those all look actually worthwhile. Glad to see the rdm relic is hands down better than joytoy. Still curious about the effect of Death Blossom. Anyone else go squee and think of The Last Starfighter when they read that?

[Feba]

Originally Posted by Taskmage

Sour grapes is about denying the value of a reward you're unable to obtain.

A-dingdingding. The reward is killing AV, his drops are secondary.

[Yellow Mage]

Originally Posted by Gobo

- An addition to the battle system is being planned to encourage melee and mage jobs to work together to coordinate attacks.

You know what would be cool? With the rise of the 4 Melee 2 Mage party, there is effectively a ratio of 2 Melees to 1 Mage, so what if, and bear with me here, if one melee used a weaponskill, another Melee could follow on top of it with their weaponskill, and then, here's the part for the Mages: they can cast spells on the mob after this is done, and the effects of the spell are boosted!

. . . Nah, I know what you're thinking, it's a dumb idea, and nobody would bother with that amount of coordination, anyway.

Originally Posted by Gobo

- More job adjustments are planned, but no adjustments are planned for puppetmaster.

[Taskmage]

Originally Posted by Feba

A-dingdingding. The reward is killing AV, his drops are secondary.

I am horribly disoriented and scared. I can't tell what's real anymore

[Yellow Mage]

Originally Posted by Taskmage

I am horribly disoriented and scared. I can't tell what's real anymore

You got Feba'd?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Taskmage

It's SE's job to keep us engaged with worthwhile, enjoyable content. That's what we pay them a monthly fee for. If after three years the playerbase has been unable to extract worth or even fully experience that content by reaching the later stages of the AV fight, it's the developer's fault. Not the players'.

Sorry, but I have to agree with Feba, this is on the players. A developer like SE doesn't put a monster in the game if you can't beat it and while it has yet to be beaten fairly, it has been beaten even if by shady means. I loathe to give Map any sort of credit, but he has proven the thing is not unbeatable.

You said yourself that Odin's LimitBreak LS got it down to 51% fair and square, so its apparently not impossible, just extremely difficult.

From what I've observed of the fight its not even the two hours he does that are the biggest concern, but the fact he can insta-cast spells. He hits hard, but can be tanked, I've seen Odin's BBQGold tank him pretty well, however, damaging him and the insta-cast spells seemed to be the larger issue. Locking his two hours seems to actually be one of the lesser concerns save for MG and Benediction. To BBQGold's credit, I think they were just practicing the tanking when I watched them.

Some LSes are still trying and its usually the bigger, more dedicated LSes that are still trying. They want to down the guy, so clearly the challenge entertains them.

Games are not just about being enjoyable and most certainly not about having everything handed to you. They're about challenge and that's what this fight is meant to be.

Personally, I think less of SE for feeling they had to give out a video of hints more than I do the mob still being too difficult for all the LSes to beat. That's the cardnal sin of being a magician or even a game developer - showing how you did the trick in public. Kinda spoils the mystique. Once one LS downs the thing fair and square, lots of information will be laid bare before the playbase and it will be beaten again and again and again. It will go the way of other formerly "unbeatable" bosses.

I'll concede that an 18 hour battle is extremely unreasonable and that, if anything, that is the element of the fight that should most certainly be changed. There is a difference between an long, epic fight and a fight long for the sake of artificial difficulty and this fight is the latter. I've sat back and watched LSes go at this thing for hours on end, its just a tad ridiculous

All that said, I think it boils down to the fact that the rewards may not be as valuble to certain LSes these days as the challenge is to others. Some people just place value on the reward in terms of the effort of getting it and that's what the majority of the playerbase actually does, its why they don't embrace other strategies once they've found one way to do things. Others are in it for the challenge and that's what excites them.

People are asking SE to strip away the challenge of this fight and I think that's pretty fucking lame. I don't care how much you pay per month, if you think your monthly fee entitles you to information on how to beat the biggest and baddest monsters, offline games and codebreakers are that way -->



------------------------------------------------

As for the Nyzul Relics.... I will have that Death Penalty prz. WHM relic giving perma Divine Viel is hot, too.

[Malacite]

I absolutely can not wait to see BLM and SMN's

EDIT: Totally saw the Gun and THF Dagger coming. Hoping the BLM staff at the very least encompasses all the HQ staves into one. I got some guess as to the others;


SMN: Free avatars (or Aftermath reduces perp cost)

SCH: Enhances Light and Dark Arts

MNK: Enhances Kick Attacks, Aftermath enhances counter

PLD: Enhances Shield Mastery, Aftermath lowers enmity loss/damage taken

BLU: Enhances Physical Magic Aftermath: enhances chain affinity? (don't need to activate it.)

BRD: Enhances "March" songs (dear lord please)

BST: Enhances "Sic" effect Aftermath; Enhances Killer effects

WAR: Enhances "Berserk" effect (plz plz plz double berserk...) Aftermath: Enhances Double Attack

RNG: Enhances "Bolt Effects", Aftermath: Enhances Rapid Shot

DRK: Enhances "Souleater" (No HP loss? >;3) Aftermath; enhances attack

SAM: Enhances Hasso/Seigan, Aftermath; Enhances Store TP?

NIN: Ehhances Utsusemi (+1 shadow, oh come on baby) Aftermath; enhances Dual Wield.

[Taskmage]

Re BBQ: I believe LB used the wall of justice trick to get it down to 51%, so even that was not fair and square.

Ultimately I'm frustrated by SE's notion that the less information they give us about how to play the game, the deeper, the more skillful, the somehow better the game becomes, which I feel is exactly what you're trying to defend here. It isn't true. This applies to everything from AV down to the effects of food, the mechanics of TH, and the effect of CHR.

Imagine sitting down to a game of chess without knowing how the pieces move, or any of the special case moves like en passant or castling. If I tell you about all those rules and caveats, does that take the skill or the challenge out of the game? No. Likewise, you can lay out the exact mechanics for a fight like Proto-Ultima and Omega, and I use these as examples because they are the "big game" I have real experience with, and in spite of near perfect knowledge of the obstacle itself, it still takes a well prepared, individually skilled and mutually coordinated group of players to actually accomplish a win. When/if we learn the "trick" to AV it will still undoubtedly be a very challenging fight as it is still an obscenely powerful monster even without his dirtiest tricks.

[Malacite]

Originally Posted by Taskmage

Ultimately I'm frustrated by SE's notion that the less information they give us about how to play the game, the deeper, the more skillful, the somehow better the game becomes, which I feel is exactly what you're trying to defend here. It isn't true. This applies to everything from AV down to the effects of food, the mechanics of TH, and the effect of CHR.

Campaign is the perfect example of this, and they're finally starting to admit to it.

I'd like to take this time to call BS on them not being able to add set bonuses to AF, and it'd be nice if once and for all weapons were labeled with what damage type they are.

[Yellow Mage]

Okay, TM, if I get this straight, you've gone from arguing AV as a puzzle, to arguing him as a set of unknown rules?

S-E went and gave everything you needed to know about AV in the video, and if we can't see it, the problem lies in us, not them. They gave us the rules, it's just in the form of a puzzle we have yet to solve, and if S-E are forced by the likes of your whining to go out and say it blatantly, it's going to be a head-banging frustration for everybody for not figuring it out sooner. Even if they do tell us outright, there's still going to be very few times that anybody's going to actually best him anyways, as you said.

So, why ruin what is going to be the hardest fight in the game, anyway?

(And, the effect of CHR? Really? It affects the potency of Killer Effects, Bard Songs, and Charm, as well as resistances to all of the aforementioned. What more do you want?)

[Taskmage]

Feba started the puzzle metaphor. I just ran with it. These exists such a thing as a puzzle with unknown rules. I just gave an example of one. Here's another one: Odin. Do you think anyone in the game knew that emotes could affect monster AI before they flat out told us?

Originally Posted by Yellow Mage

S-E went and gave everything you needed to know about AV in the video

How can you support that when you don't even know what it is in the video that is needed to know? Because they said so? They also said we had all the clues we needed before releasing the video, so how could both be true? Does the video contain the other part of "everything" they forgot to mention before?

Originally Posted by Yellow Mage

(And, the effect of CHR? Really? It affects the potency of Killer Effects, Bard Songs, and Charm, as well as resistances to all of the aforementioned. What more do you want?)

It was before your time so I can't blame you for not knowing, but for years the fanfests were spammed with questions about the effects of chr on provoke, enmity, and other tank-related things because the +60 chr on war/pld-only koenig had to be for something right?

FFS I'm on the same side of an argument as Malacite. Why don't I just shoot myself now?

You can call it whining all you want but that doesn't change the fact that it's bullshit to have plds running around for years decked out in chr because they think it slows their enmity decay, linkshells dicking around with wyrms at 1% life trying to let a THF have the final blow because they have no idea how TH works, and Goblin Drinks being unaccessible for months after their introduction because nobody randomly tried to dissolve a frog, just to name a few. This NM is no different.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Taskmage

Re BBQ: I believe LB used the wall of justice trick to get it down to 51%, so even that was not fair and square.

Ultimately I'm frustrated by SE's notion that the less information they give us about how to play the game, the deeper, the more skillful, the somehow better the game becomes, which I feel is exactly what you're trying to defend here. It isn't true. This applies to everything from AV down to the effects of food, the mechanics of TH, and the effect of CHR.

With the exception of AV, players have not only figured out most of how the game works, but how to exploit the system.

Given this fact, why should AV be the exception?

Chess is a piss poor example to use, just as lame as the Rubik's cube arguement. You want to know why? Because you're comparing a game with set rules to a game with ones that are subject to change and sometimes even changes that aren't accounted for. MMORPGs are a constantly shifting sandbox of rules.

In a game of chess, your opponent doesn't have anything that you don't have. Its a perfectly balanced game. There are no more dynamics to know or change, it all boils down to a mind game after that, your strategy against another person's.

We're talking PvE, here though. In RPGs, we fight enemies that often have a lot of things that we don't have.

Campaign is the perfect example of this, and they're finally starting to admit to it.

Not really, plenty of servers figured out how to retake territories after the update San'doria and Windurst on Odin steadily recovered after the last update. While players from Bastok just defended Bastok Markets, Windurst and Sandoria went back out and took thier land back.

If we weren't getting attacked before because they didn't have the territories, we take back those territories and they stop attacking us. Players observed that beastmen upped thier technology, so we cast our votes to do the same each week.

See, Campaign actually is like a game of chess, the beastmen are subject to the same rules we are. The only difference is that they have the advantage of acting 24/7 while our advantage is the number of players we can hurl at them to reduce that advantage through battles and ops.

The more we defend and win, the stronger our troops are and its the same for them. The more we lose the weaker our troops get and its the same for them.

Chess.

But the rest of the time its Frodo versus Sauron. If it was chess everywhere else, it wouldn't be so epic.

[Raydeus]

Is the occasionally attacks twice effect in those weapons Aftermath? Or do they all attack that way 24/7?

I just hope the magic acc/att makes Enspells do much more dmg (but like usual is not like I'll ever get it anyway )

[Lmnop]

Originally Posted by Taskmage

Feba started the puzzle metaphor. I just ran with it. These exists such a thing as a puzzle with unknown rules. I just gave an example of one. Here's another one: Odin. Do you think anyone in the game knew that emotes could affect monster AI before they flat out told us?
How can you support that when you don't even know what it is in the video that is needed to know? Because they said so? They also said we had all the clues we needed before releasing the video, so how could both be true? Does the video contain the other part of "everything" they forgot to mention before?
It was before your time so I can't blame you for not knowing, but for years the fanfests were spammed with questions about the effects of chr on provoke, enmity, and other tank-related things because the +60 chr on war/pld-only koenig had to be for something right?

FFS I'm on the same side of an argument as Malacite. Why don't I just shoot myself now?

You can call it whining all you want but that doesn't change the fact that it's bullshit to have plds running around for years decked out in chr because they think it slows their enmity decay, linkshells dicking around with wyrms at 1% life trying to let a THF have the final blow because they have no idea how TH works, and Goblin Drinks being unaccessible for months after their introduction because nobody randomly tried to dissolve a frog, just to name a few. This NM is no different.

+1